One chart shows the Vaxx was worthless

If I could withdraw my post, I would. And just let Tiny's post handle all of this. So much better. Originally Posted by DayOfTheEagle

Don't belittle yourself Day of the Eagle. Based on your post, I believe you're now probably going to be in adav8s28's elite group of "Top 3 Eccie Amateur Virologists."

I am a scientist in biotech and even managed vaccine manufacturing. that covid vaxx was not a vaccine. it is not designed as a vaccine nor does it work as a vaccine should. A real vaccine is either an attenuated virus or a totally deactivated virus (either way it will not cause infection in the body) is used. The immune system sees the virus and makes the anit bodies and locks it up and removes it. No attack on any of the body's cells. Boosters did not work with the supposed vax. ........ Originally Posted by Tugg Speedman

TS, at this part of your post you describe at a high level how a traditional vaccine works. Then you make the statement that the M-RNA vaccine/boosters didn't work. You didn't go into the mechanism of how the M-RNA vaccine can lead to "acquired immunity" for someone who got the two shot Moderna/Pfizer vaccines. These two paragraphs from the Wiki shows how one gets "acquired immunity" with the M-RNA vaccine.

In contrast, mRNA vaccines introduce a short-lived[51] synthetically created fragment of the RNA sequence of a virus into the individual being vaccinated. These mRNA fragments are taken up by dendritic cells through phagocytosis.[52] The dendritic cells use their internal machinery (ribosomes) to read the mRNA and produce the viral antigens that the mRNA encodes.[4] The body degrades the mRNA fragments within a few days of introduction.[53] Although non-immune cells can potentially also absorb vaccine mRNA, produce antigens, and display the antigens on their surfaces, dendritic cells absorb the mRNA globules much more readily.[54] The mRNA fragments are translated in the cytoplasm and do not affect the body's genomic DNA, located separately in the cell nucleus.[1][55]

Once the viral antigens are produced by the host cell, the normal adaptive immune system processes are followed. Antigens are broken down by proteasomes. Class I and class II MHC molecules then attach to the antigen and transport it to the cellular membrane, "activating" the dendritic cell.[55] Once activated, dendritic cells migrate to lymph nodes, where they present the antigen to T cells and B cells.[56] This triggers the production of antibodies specifically targeted to the antigen, ultimately resulting in immunity.[48]



Yes, there were some cases of pericarditis, and other side effects. Most people who got the fully vaccinated achieved "acquired immunity" to the SARS_CoV2 virus before it mutated. The problems with the boosters was the mutation pattern of SARS_CoV2 virus at the time was like every 4 to 6 months a new variant would become the dominant strain. The mutation pattern for SARS_CoV2 has slowed down and is similar to Influenza_A like once a year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine

How about sub-unit vaccines, like those for hepatitis B, HPV, pertussis, and shingles? They're real.



Are you saying the mRNA somehow integrates into cellular DNA and then those cells replicate with the new DNA? If so, I don't believe that's correct. I'm reading the mRNA degrades in hours or days.



Maybe so, but COVID the disease causes these conditions too, and generally symptoms are worse than with the vaccine. For older individuals and others at greater risk of severe disease, the vaccines and boosters certainly made a lot of sense.

Yes you do. In addition to the second shot of the COVID vaccine a month after the initial injection, the shingles, hepatitis, MMR, HPV, and DPT and other vaccines require multiple doses.



Yeah, the efficacy may have dropped but the vaccines are far from useless. SpeedRacer and I both received most or all of the recommended boosters. And both of us had very mild cases of COVID when we finally caught it. Most common colds I've had were worse.



This doesn't make sense to me. Maybe you could explain it? Originally Posted by Tiny

Great response my friend.

If I could withdraw my post, I would. And just let Tiny's post handle all of this. So much better. Originally Posted by DayOfTheEagle

Agree. I tend to give newbies some space. Tugg is a newbie for the time being.

Great response my friend. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Thanks SpeedRacer

TS, at this part of your post you describe at a high level how a traditional vaccine works. Then you make the statement that the M-RNA vaccine/boosters didn't work. You didn't go into the mechanism of how the M-RNA vaccine can lead to "acquired immunity" for someone who got the two shot Moderna/Pfizer vaccines. These two paragraphs from the Wiki shows how one gets "acquired immunity" with the M-RNA vaccine.

In contrast, mRNA vaccines introduce a short-lived[51] synthetically created fragment of the RNA sequence of a virus into the individual being vaccinated. These mRNA fragments are taken up by dendritic cells through phagocytosis.[52] The dendritic cells use their internal machinery (ribosomes) to read the mRNA and produce the viral antigens that the mRNA encodes.[4] The body degrades the mRNA fragments within a few days of introduction.[53] Although non-immune cells can potentially also absorb vaccine mRNA, produce antigens, and display the antigens on their surfaces, dendritic cells absorb the mRNA globules much more readily.[54] The mRNA fragments are translated in the cytoplasm and do not affect the body's genomic DNA, located separately in the cell nucleus.[1][55]

Once the viral antigens are produced by the host cell, the normal adaptive immune system processes are followed. Antigens are broken down by proteasomes. Class I and class II MHC molecules then attach to the antigen and transport it to the cellular membrane, "activating" the dendritic cell.[55] Once activated, dendritic cells migrate to lymph nodes, where they present the antigen to T cells and B cells.[56] This triggers the production of antibodies specifically targeted to the antigen, ultimately resulting in immunity.[48]



Yes, there were some cases of pericarditis, and other side effects. Most people who got the fully vaccinated achieved "acquired immunity" to the SARS_CoV2 virus before it mutated. The problems with the boosters was the mutation pattern of SARS_CoV2 virus at the time was like every 4 to 6 months a new variant would become the dominant strain. The mutation pattern for SARS_CoV2 has slowed down and is similar to Influenza_A like once a year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine Originally Posted by adav8s28

Good points adav8s28. Here's an "mRNA vaccines for dummies" (dummies like me) explanation that may make more sense. This is for the benefit of members with concerns about cell damage or "DNA run wild," from getting mRNA COVID vaccines.

First, a little background. DNA is located in the nucleus of cells. Cytoplasm, a jelly like material, occupies space between the nucleus and the cell membrane. Ribosomes, which manufacture proteins, are located in the cytoplasm. Messenger RNA, normally produced from DNA in the cell nucleus, effectively provides instructions to the ribosomes to make proteins.

After the messenger RNA in the COVID vaccine is injected into a muscle, it never enters the cell nucleus and doesn't interact with DNA. Instead it directs ribosomes in the cytoplasm to manufacture the spike protein.

The messenger RNA from the vaccine for the most part is only present in the muscle tissue in the arm where it was injected, and lymph nodes close to the armpit. Furthermore, the mRNA is only present and the ribosomes are only manufacturing the spike protein for a short period, from a day to several days. During that time the body produces an immune response to the spike protein.

After that, a few days at the most, the mRNA degrades and ribosomes cease making the spike protein. But our bodies "remember" the immune response produced by the spike protein, so our immune systems are better able to cope if we're infected by the COVID virus.

Once every couple of months or so, I chat on the phone with a guy who has been one of my best friends since we entered our high skool daze 60+ years ago. I told him I had seen claims that the mRNA covid vaccine is "gene therapy" that effects permanent changes to DNA within the cells. I asked him whether there was any truth to that, or whether it was just conspiracy bullshit, which of course is extremely abundant nowadays. "Complete bullshit" is what he said. "Beyond ridiculous." He's not very partisan and has no ideological or political axe to grind. (Plus he's been an MD physician for more than 50 years and for a time was an adjunct professor at one of the more prestigious medical schools, so he likely knows a lot more about this topic than anyone else I know.)

Here's perplexity.ai on whether the mRNA vaccine is "gene therapy"

The claim that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are "gene therapy" is not supported by the scientific consensus and is considered misinformation.
What Scientists Say

Definition of Gene Therapy vs. mRNA Vaccines
Gene therapy is a medical intervention that modifies a person's genes to treat or cure disease. This typically involves introducing, replacing, or inactivating genes within a person's cells, often resulting in permanent changes to the DNA in those cells. In contrast, mRNA vaccines do not enter the cell nucleus or interact with DNA at all. Instead, they provide cells with temporary instructions (mRNA) to make a specific protein (the spike protein from SARS-CoV-2), which then triggers an immune response. The mRNA is quickly broken down and does not persist in the body.

Mechanism of mRNA Vaccines
mRNA vaccines work by delivering a piece of laboratory-made mRNA into muscle cells. These cells use the mRNA to produce a harmless fragment of the coronavirus spike protein. The immune system recognizes this protein as foreign and mounts a defense, preparing the body to fight the actual virus if encountered later. The mRNA never enters the cell nucleus and cannot alter the person's DNA.

Why the Confusion?
Some confusion arises because both gene therapy and mRNA vaccines use genetic material (DNA or RNA) as part of their mechanism. However, the intent and biological effect are fundamentally different. mRNA vaccines do not modify genes or DNA; they simply provide transient instructions to make a protein and are then degraded by the cell.

Expert and Regulatory Consensus
Leading scientific organizations, including the CDC, FDA, and international regulatory agencies, explicitly state that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are not gene therapy and do not alter human DNA. Experts in genomics and vaccine development confirm that the technology and purpose of mRNA vaccines are distinct from those of gene therapy.

Conclusion

Mainstream scientists and medical authorities do not consider mRNA COVID-19 vaccines to be gene therapy. The claim that they are gene therapy is a misconception and is not supported by evidence or expert consensus. The mRNA vaccines do not alter your DNA or genes in any way; they simply teach your immune system to recognize and fight the coronavirus.

Once every couple of months or so, I chat on the phone with a guy who has been one of my best friends since we entered our high skool daze 60+ years ago. I told him I had seen claims that the mRNA covid vaccine is "gene therapy" that effects permanent changes to DNA within the cells. I asked him whether there was any truth to that, or whether it was just conspiracy bullshit, which of course is extremely abundant nowadays. "Complete bullshit" is what he said. "Beyond ridiculous." He's not very partisan and has no ideological or political axe to grind. (Plus he's been an MD physician for more than 50 years and for a time was an adjunct professor at one of the more prestigious medical schools, so he likely knows a lot more about this topic than anyone else I know.)

Here's perplexity.ai on whether the mRNA vaccine is "gene therapy"

The claim that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are "gene therapy" is not supported by the scientific consensus and is considered misinformation.
What Scientists Say

Definition of Gene Therapy vs. mRNA Vaccines
Gene therapy is a medical intervention that modifies a person's genes to treat or cure disease. This typically involves introducing, replacing, or inactivating genes within a person's cells, often resulting in permanent changes to the DNA in those cells. In contrast, mRNA vaccines do not enter the cell nucleus or interact with DNA at all. Instead, they provide cells with temporary instructions (mRNA) to make a specific protein (the spike protein from SARS-CoV-2), which then triggers an immune response. The mRNA is quickly broken down and does not persist in the body.

Mechanism of mRNA Vaccines
mRNA vaccines work by delivering a piece of laboratory-made mRNA into muscle cells. These cells use the mRNA to produce a harmless fragment of the coronavirus spike protein. The immune system recognizes this protein as foreign and mounts a defense, preparing the body to fight the actual virus if encountered later. The mRNA never enters the cell nucleus and cannot alter the person's DNA.

Why the Confusion?
Some confusion arises because both gene therapy and mRNA vaccines use genetic material (DNA or RNA) as part of their mechanism. However, the intent and biological effect are fundamentally different. mRNA vaccines do not modify genes or DNA; they simply provide transient instructions to make a protein and are then degraded by the cell.

Expert and Regulatory Consensus
Leading scientific organizations, including the CDC, FDA, and international regulatory agencies, explicitly state that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are not gene therapy and do not alter human DNA. Experts in genomics and vaccine development confirm that the technology and purpose of mRNA vaccines are distinct from those of gene therapy.

Conclusion

Mainstream scientists and medical authorities do not consider mRNA COVID-19 vaccines to be gene therapy. The claim that they are gene therapy is a misconception and is not supported by evidence or expert consensus. The mRNA vaccines do not alter your DNA or genes in any way; they simply teach your immune system to recognize and fight the coronavirus. Originally Posted by Texas Contrarian

Why the Confusion?
Some confusion arises because both gene therapy and mRNA vaccines use genetic material (DNA or RNA) as part of their mechanism. However, the intent and biological effect are fundamentally different. mRNA vaccines do not modify genes or DNA; they simply provide transient instructions to make a protein and are then degraded by the cell.

Just to supplement a little, the amino acid sequence of the Spike Protein of SARS_CoV virus has been fully mapped by big Pharma. This would allow Moderna/Pfizer to put that amino acid sequence into the M_RNA (what you called the "transient instructions"). Thus the Spike Protein can be recognized as a foreign invader. The antibody is eventually made in most people. Nice write up TC.

There is going to be a time when something truly nasty comes. A great deal of people don’t trust the medical community for pushing this fake bullshit now.Shutting everything down created tons of inflation and other issues that will be felt for generations.

Fuckers

Lot of people don’t believe or trust anything.

Except social media.