Obamacare Death Panels Arriving

Sorry. You really do need to go read the law, before you start discussing it. "The Secretary" sets the regulations regarding coverage standards for the carriers ... there is a "board" ... "panel" ... "committee" ... you call it whatever you want ... who decide if certain treatments will be COVERED ... and whether certain drugs will be COVERED ... Medicare and Medicaid have that same "process" .. if the administrator turns you down .. you appeal to the "BOARD"!!!!!

Under "normal" administrative review processes you can appeal to a court to referee ... fairly standard throughout the Federal and State governments ... BUT NOT THE ACA.

At this point there is no right of appeal (i.e. DUE PROCESS) for denial of service/supplies/meds. Originally Posted by LexusLover

what a misleading post. You fall for the illusion of appeal as if most people have the knowledge or means to fight big insurance. But then you are trying to justify a pile of bullshit on the floor. Not help in cleaning it up.

what a misleading post. ..... Originally Posted by WTF

Because YOU say so ... ????

You know you are not going to point out the "misleading" parts ... don't you?

Because you haven't read the ACA.

And .. more importantly, you have not seen the regs!!!!!

So, all you got his hot air!!!! Along with the other 2 stooges.

"fight big insurance" ? ... everyone has the means "to fight big insurance" ...

.... except YOU apparently!!!!

Because YOU say so ... ????

You know you are not going to point out the "misleading" parts ... don't you?

Because you haven't read the ACA.

And .. more importantly, you have not seen the regs!!!!!

.... Originally Posted by LexusLover

Reading is just the beginning of WTF problems. Its reading with comprehension that's a major issue.

If WTF was a weather system, he'd be a stupidnado.

For you ignorant shits that think it is a bad thing that people are taxed 700 dollars if they do not get health insurance. remember that these folks use the healthcare system in the way of ER treatment. They should at least be taxed for this service if they choose not to get insurance.

LL does not understand wtf a win win is. Either these folks get insurance or at the very least , taxed for not doing so. He is talking about a good thing and to damn ignorant to realize it! Originally Posted by WTF

You can't walk into a hospital ER and even breath the air for $700 bucks.
I don't have as much problem with that as I do with the opposite end of the spectrum where people with "too much" coverage are also taxed. So-called "Cadillac Plans" which penalize companies that offer high-end health care plans to their employees,

Under the Affordable Care Act, companies will have to pay an excise tax on plans that cost more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family. The employer will have to pay a 40 percent tax on the cost each plan above those levels.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cadil...amacare-2013-8

Even the unions are opposed to this one...wonder why?

So-called "Cadillac Plans" which penalize companies that offer high-end health care plans to their employees,



Even the unions are opposed to this one...wonder why? Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

The unions shouldn't have a problem with it .. they've been given an exemption.

My guess is that most of the loud mouths on here "supporting" the ACA implementation have not been required to make an "election" yet for the "open enrollment" and do a comparison of what their coverage was in 2013 as compared to what it will be in 2014.

They also probably don't know that medical savings plans are about to be shit canned under the ACA, because there are restrictions on the application. Bottom line:

1. higher premiums
2. higher deductibles
3. higher copays
4. fewer service options
5. pharmacy restrictions ... as in generics and a shift in classification tiers
6. fewer physician choices

Bottom line: They (most of the loud mouths on here "supporting" the ACA implementation) ..............

................don't give a shit.

.........you are trying to justify a pile of bullshit on the floor. Not help in cleaning it up. Originally Posted by WTF

the pile of bullshit is the reams of worthless paper stacked up called the ACA...

... it's not my mess to clean up ... but liberals do that ...

..... shit everywhere calling it "organic fertilizer" .. then when it starts stinking put the conservatives in to clean up their mess ... ... then the cycle starts all over again.... more bitching about the value of "organic fertilizer" .....

You really need to find you a comfy spot on the bench and watch for awhile ...

.. and if you would quit jabbering and listen (reading too is helpful ... I'm not talking blogs) ... you might get the hang of it ... how to clean up instead of dirty.

You can't walk into a hospital ER and even breath the air for $700 bucks. Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

BTW: FYI .. the CBO knows that ... from factoring in the 100%* collection of the money as an offset against the increases in medical care costs into the future ....

do you all Pro-ACA whiners ... get that .... "the increases in medical care costs into the future" .... which has remained about 2-3x the rate of inflation during the recession for the past few years ... and will begin to increase in annual increases beginning in 2014 ....

remember ... the ACA ... was touted as REDUCING MEDICAL COSTS!

*When in the F&^K ........ has the government collected 100% of anything!!!!

Because you haven't read the ACA.

And .. more importantly, you have not seen the regs!!!!!

!!!! Originally Posted by LexusLover

Nor have you, you blowhard.

I do know that consumers are at a huge disadvantage vs Insurance companies. Fucking team of lawyers vs some middle class people that barely have a pot to piss in, much less pay lawyers to fight.

Anybody that has dealt with healthcare insurance knows that...well except you it seems.

You can't walk into a hospital ER and even breath the air for $700 bucks. Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

You miss the point CC...those that opt out were not going to be paying in anything to begin with. Last I checked 700 was still greater than ZERO.

.
I don't have as much problem with that as I do with the opposite end of the spectrum where people with "too much" coverage are also taxed. So-called "Cadillac Plans" which penalize companies that offer high-end health care plans to their employees, Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

Do you understand WTF that means is that you health care insurance should be counted as part of you wage and taxed properly. That is a bullshit advantage large companies have over sole owners.

Why do you want say union wages exempt from taxes. As LL correctly pointed out though(for once) certain unions are exempt.

.
Even the unions are opposed to this one...wonder why? Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

Because that want special tax exempt status on their wages....I say fuck'em. The unions doing the bitching are the city/state unions, which were not exempt.

It is just getting confusing reading the charges and counter-charges. Maybe we can all agree that Obamacare should be stopped until it is figured out. That would take action from the House, the Senate, and the White House (unless the Congress overrides a veto).

You can skip the descriptive, inflammatory name calling but some people who should know something about Obamacare do not want to participate or are demanding a subsidy to participate.

You miss the point CC...those that opt out were not going to be paying in anything to begin with. Last I checked 700 was still greater than ZERO. Originally Posted by WTF

My point is why just $700? Why not something realistic and in keeping with some actual costs of a typical medical visit/procedure/diagnosis?

Do you understand WTF that means is that you health care insurance should be counted as part of you wage and taxed properly. That is a bullshit advantage large companies have over sole owners.

Why do you want say union wages exempt from taxes. As LL correctly pointed out though(for once) certain unions are exempt. Originally Posted by WTF

Thats were we fundamentally disagree. Health care coverage should not be counted as wages, and no tax should be collected. Period. Its a service that is offered and bought out in the marketplace.
The big company/small company advantage argument is the same thing as the internet sales tax debate. Also moot in my book.

Because that want special tax exempt status on their wages....I say fuck'em. The unions doing the bitching are the city/state unions, which were not exempt. Originally Posted by WTF

Here's a list of unions granted exemptions, and this has some age on it now (Jan 2012) and has been added to. Looks like a lot of local unions to me.
http://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/F...n_01062012.pdf

You can skip the descriptive, inflammatory name calling but some people who should know something about Obamacare do not want to participate or are demanding a subsidy to participate. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

What the Congress staff want is an exemption or the exact same subsidy that all others get.

My point is why just $700? Why not something realistic and in keeping with some actual costs of a typical medical visit/procedure/diagnosis?

Because something is better than nothing and you must start somewhere.




Thats were we fundamentally disagree. Health care coverage should not be counted as wages, and no tax should be collected. Period. Its a service that is offered and bought out in the marketplace.

Why?.... is is part of one's pay package. Why should it be exempt from market forces?



The big company/small company advantage argument is the same thing as the internet sales tax debate. Also moot in my book.

Why again?







Here's a list of unions granted exemptions, and this has some age on it now (Jan 2012) and has been added to. Looks like a lot of local unions to me.
http://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/F...n_01062012.pdf

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

Not state and cities from my understanding. In other words not government unions.

BTW: FYI .. the CBO knows that ... from factoring in the 100%* collection of the money as an offset against the increases in medical care costs into the future ....

do you all Pro-ACA whiners ... get that .... "the increases in medical care costs into the future" .... which has remained about 2-3x the rate of inflation during the recession for the past few years ... and will begin to increase in annual increases beginning in 2014 ....

remember ... the ACA ... was touted as REDUCING MEDICAL COSTS!

*When in the F&^K ........ has the government collected 100% of anything!!!! Originally Posted by LexusLover

Over six million people with Medicare have saved $7 billion under the Affordable Care Act, the Health and Human Services Department announced Monday.

Reducing individual prescription drug costs by $1,061, Obamacare has begun to reduce the existing gap in this coverage for seniors. With a $250 check to those in the "donut hole" - those without full prescription coverage - the Affordable Care Act began to reduce this discrepancy, which is set to close by 2020.

Though Medicare growth has been slower than average, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said these reduced expenses are a sign the program is "much stronger" than it was before the Affordable Care Act.

While several states have projected lower health care premiums for those who purchase their own health care, the effect of the law remains unclear. Most recently, Maryland and New York have estimated significant decreases in insurances costs under the Affordable Care Act.

Over six million people with Medicare have saved $7 billion under the Affordable Care Act, the Health and Human Services Department announced Monday.

Reducing individual prescription drug costs by $1,061, Obamacare has begun to reduce the existing gap in this coverage for seniors. With a $250 check to those in the "donut hole" - those without full prescription coverage - the Affordable Care Act began to reduce this discrepancy, which is set to close by 2020.

Though Medicare growth has been slower than average, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said these reduced expenses are a sign the program is "much stronger" than it was before the Affordable Care Act.

While several states have projected lower health care premiums for those who purchase their own health care, the effect of the law remains unclear. Most recently, Maryland and New York have estimated significant decreases in insurances costs under the Affordable Care Act. Originally Posted by CJ7

Costs have been "reduced" overall because of the fall in the economy .. ACA hasn't even kicked in yet ... how the fuck can that stupid you-know-what claim that .....

.. Congress (separate from ACA) mandated reductions in Medicare ... not a friggin thing to do with ACA ... budget reductions and falling economy have reduced "overall" spending costs ... the individual user is paying more now than 2 years ago.

Those idiots are even counting the "surcharges" they have not collected yet.... funny money!

"Over six million people with Medicare have saved $7 billion under the Affordable Care Act, the Health and Human Services Department announced Monday." Who said this shit?

That has NOTHING to do with ACA!