Confederate flag was the flag of traitors

Welcome to day 13 of IBIdiot's RACIST OKTOBERFEST MELTDOWN.

Post is evidence of the 19.th century thinking that pervades this board. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

One thing we can always count on is the infantile, ignorant, retarded language from Whiny's sweet ass.

I know I'm not the only one, but I think it's worthwhile to point out that neither IBIdiot or IFFYYYY have come close to posting anything factual, true or honest.

If that's OK with you, please affirm with your reply. If not, then let these fucking idiots know that the grown folks here would like to have a conversation...

I hit a couple of wrong keys and didn't look before I hit submit. That is not nearly as bad as all the stupid shit that you spelled right. Originally Posted by rodog44

+1

The Soviets starved millions of people to death in the 30s. Understand that? MILLIONS, STARVED, and DEATH

The Soviets starved millions of people to death in the 30s. Understand that? MILLIONS, STARVED, and DEATH Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Point taken.

And all that means nothing to a person with fresh lashes om their back while laying down in his own shit waiting to be hung for talking to the master's daughter.

The only reason the slavery system didn't rack up near the number of kills Hitler, Mao, or Stalin did was because of the size of the target populations. All three made massive use of free/slave labor from those who could provide it until they died or killed those who couldn't work.

Lose the "actual" numbers and look at percentage numbers of local or world population and suddenly it's a much tighter race.

Moot point though.

The OP was about a system of enslavement and death and a flag that to many is a symbol of said same.

Hijackers have turned this into a "That manner of enslavement and death is nowhere near as bad as this other manner of enslavement and death".

Since this is America, you have the right to chose which manner of enslavement and death you prefer.

Me? I'm taking the 'Vette out to the lake, going to hang up my hammock by the water, plot the hostile takeover of a Public Employee Pension Fund in Kansas, and then take a nap.

A symbol of oppression and hate...

There are people in this country that saw this flag as a symbol of oppression and hate



We called them Indians then

A symbol of oppression and hate...

There are people in this country that saw this flag as a symbol of oppression and hate



We called them Indians then Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

We call them JDBarleycorn and IBHankering now.

Cite a solitary IBH post in this thread that didn't address at least one of your obsessive and petulant insults, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass! BTW, noticed how you cut and run -- DODGED -- when you choked on the facts, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. Still waiting, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You want an example, tranny fucker? OK, here is one.

I asked you REPEATEDLY to cite to a "DECLARATION OF SECESSION". Can you read that? I printed it bold and big so you can't pretend later that you did not see it.

Instead of giving me what I asked for, you instead DODGED the question by referencing to two of the Ordinances of Secession.

Each of the Confederate states passed a short ordinance as an official act of the legislature. But the ordinances typically didn't give ANY reasons for seceding.

Of course, you cited two ordinances that don't state ANY reason for seceding.

They just say they are seceding without explaining why.

Most of them are like that (although some cite slavery), which is why I asked you for the Declarations of Secession in the first place.

Now go back and Google "Declarations of Secession". Those are the LONG declarations where the states declared why they were seceding.

Take a look at Texas, South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia.

The Soviets starved millions of people to death in the 30s. Understand that? MILLIONS, STARVED, and DEATH Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Drunk again?

Your bullshit argument was addressed above already in Post No. 48. It isn't the total number of dead that is important, it is the percentage that die. In other words, what is the probability that the system will kill you? Here is the relevant text:

----------------------------------------------
Also, if you want to REALLY figure out what is worse, you have to look at percentages. Individuals who are not imprisoned don't experience the depredations of those who are imprisoned. There is no such thing as vicarious suffering or vicarious death.

So, to know which system was worse, you have to look at the probability that the average person ends up suffering premature death and endures extreme hardship. Let's double the 20 million number to 40 million people who died prematurely from starvation, hard labor and various other depredations at the hands of the commies.

For most of the Communist era, the Russians had about 250 million people. The Chinese over a billion. Round it off to 1.2 billion (that's probably a low number). So, 40 million (that's a high number) out of 1.2 billion had early deaths under communism. That is about 3.3 percent of the total population. And that is a HIGH number. it was probably closer to 2%.

Now, let's look at blacks living under slavery. Do you really think the percentage who died early is less than 10%? Slave masters couldn't get much work out of 50 year old field hands that were bent over with arthritis. They might have been somewhat more protective of young slaves who were still productive "property". But what advantage was there to giving medical care, healthy food, and proper shelter to older slaves?

The number of blacks dying prematurely under slavery was surely higher than 2% or even 3.3%.

So, if you had to choose which system to live under, which would you choose?

Live in China under the communists and take a 3.3% risk of dying early?

Or live as a slave in the American south in the 1800s and take a 10% (probably higher) risk of dying early?

Remind me again how the life of an American slave was better than living under communism?
----------------------------------------

How long do you think it will be before you tell us again about total numbers of deaths?

You want an example, tranny fucker? OK, here is one.

I asked you REPEATEDLY to cite to a "DECLARATION OF SECESSION". Can you read that? I printed it bold and big so you can't pretend later that you did not see it.

Instead of giving me what I asked for, you instead DODGED the question by referencing to two of the Ordinances of Secession.

Each of the Confederate states passed a short ordinance as an official act of the legislature. But the ordinances typically didn't give ANY reasons for seceding.

Of course, you cited two ordinances that don't state ANY reason for seceding.

They just say they are seceding without explaining why.

Most of them are like that (although some cite slavery), which is why I asked you for the Declarations of Secession in the first place.

Now go back and Google "Declarations of Secession". Those are the LONG declarations where the states declared why they were seceding.

Take a look at Texas, South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia. Originally Posted by ExNYer

You equivocate, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. Those ARE the formal "DECLARATIONS OF SECESSION" for Louisiana and Tennessee, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. Tennessee and Louisiana formally DECLARED they were seceding from the Union using only those documents -- no other formal "DECLARATIONS OF SECESSION" for those two states exist, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass! Your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass will not -- cannot -- find any other document from those states DECLARING secession!

The documents you reference -- and your, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass can only produce FOUR (where are the other 7 -- 9?)! -- are not formally entitled "Declaration of Secession", and those documents your ignorant, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass cites serve merely as a list of grievances, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.

The actual documents of secession are entitled "Ordinances of Secession", you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.

The Tennessee Ordinance and the Louisiana Ordinance ARE the "Declarations of Secession", you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, and there's no mention of slavery in those documents!

1. Tennessee

DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND ORDINANCE dissolving the federal relations between the State of Tennessee and the United States of America.

First. We, the people of the State of Tennessee, waiving any expression of opinion as to the abstract doctrine of secession, but asserting the right, as a free and independent people, to alter, reform, or abolish our form of government in such manner as we think proper, do ordain and declare that all the laws and ordinances by which the State of Tennessee became a member of the Federal Union of the United States of America are hereby abrogated and annulled, and that all the rights, functions, and powers which by any of said laws and ordinances were conveyed to the Government of the United States, and to absolve ourselves from all the obligations, restraints, and duties incurred thereto; and do hereby henceforth become a free, sovereign, and independent State.

Second. We furthermore declare and ordain that article 10, sections 1 and 2, of the constitution of the State of Tennessee, which requires members of the General Assembly and all officers, civil and military, to take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States be, and the same are hereby, abrogated and annulled, and all parts of the constitution of the State of Tennessee making citizenship of the United States a qualification for office and recognizing the Constitution of the United States as the supreme law of this State are in like manner abrogated and annulled.

Third. We furthermore ordain and declare that all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or under any act of Congress passed in pursuance thereof, or under any laws of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Sent to referendum 6 May 1861 by the legislature, and approved by the voters by a vote of 104,471 to 47,183 on 8 June 1861.


2. Louisiana

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Louisiana and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

We, the people of the State of Louisiana, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance passed by us in convention on the 22d day of November, in the year eighteen hundred and eleven, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America and the amendments of the said Constitution were adopted, and all laws and ordinances by which the State of Louisiana became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby, repealed and abrogated; and that the union now subsisting between Louisiana and other States under the name of "The United States of America" is hereby dissolved.

We do further declare and ordain, That the State of Louisiana hereby resumes all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance to said Government; and that she is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State.

We do further declare and ordain, That all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or any act of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Adopted in convention at Baton Rouge this 26th day of January, 1861.

You equivocate, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. Those ARE the formal "DECLARATIONS OF SECESSION" for Louisiana and Tennessee, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. Tennessee and Louisiana formally DECLARED they were seceding from the Union using only those documents -- no other formal "DECLARATIONS OF SECESSION" for those two states exist, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass! Your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass will not -- cannot -- find any other document from those states DECLARING secession!

The documents you reference -- and your, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass can only produce FOUR (where are the other 7 -- 9?)! -- are not formally entitled "Declaration of Secession", and those documents your ignorant, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass cites serve merely as a list of grievances, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.

The actual documents of secession are entitled "Ordinances of Secession", you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.

The Tennessee Ordinance and the Louisiana Ordinance ARE the "Declarations of Secession", you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, and there's no mention of slavery in those documents!

1. Tennessee

DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND ORDINANCE dissolving the federal relations between the State of Tennessee and the United States of America.

First. We, the people of the State of Tennessee, waiving any expression of opinion as to the abstract doctrine of secession, but asserting the right, as a free and independent people, to alter, reform, or abolish our form of government in such manner as we think proper, do ordain and declare that all the laws and ordinances by which the State of Tennessee became a member of the Federal Union of the United States of America are hereby abrogated and annulled, and that all the rights, functions, and powers which by any of said laws and ordinances were conveyed to the Government of the United States, and to absolve ourselves from all the obligations, restraints, and duties incurred thereto; and do hereby henceforth become a free, sovereign, and independent State.

Second. We furthermore declare and ordain that article 10, sections 1 and 2, of the constitution of the State of Tennessee, which requires members of the General Assembly and all officers, civil and military, to take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States be, and the same are hereby, abrogated and annulled, and all parts of the constitution of the State of Tennessee making citizenship of the United States a qualification for office and recognizing the Constitution of the United States as the supreme law of this State are in like manner abrogated and annulled.

Third. We furthermore ordain and declare that all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or under any act of Congress passed in pursuance thereof, or under any laws of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Sent to referendum 6 May 1861 by the legislature, and approved by the voters by a vote of 104,471 to 47,183 on 8 June 1861.


2. Louisiana

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Louisiana and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."

We, the people of the State of Louisiana, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance passed by us in convention on the 22d day of November, in the year eighteen hundred and eleven, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America and the amendments of the said Constitution were adopted, and all laws and ordinances by which the State of Louisiana became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby, repealed and abrogated; and that the union now subsisting between Louisiana and other States under the name of "The United States of America" is hereby dissolved.

We do further declare and ordain, That the State of Louisiana hereby resumes all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance to said Government; and that she is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State.

We do further declare and ordain, That all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or any act of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.

Adopted in convention at Baton Rouge this 26th day of January, 1861. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

More bullshit from the tranny fucker.

I asked you repeatedly for citations to any of the Declarations of Secession and YOU decide to substitute the short Ordinances ratified by some of the legislatures.

They are NOT equivalent.

Florida's Ordinance is only a single long sentence with NO reason for seceding.

Most of them don't state ANY reason for secession. They just declare they are seceding That's why I didn't ask for them. Are we supposed to conclude the left for no reason?

You are committing a logical error called "arguing from silence". You would know that if you were as educated as you pretend to be.

Most of the ordinances are silent as to the reasons for seceding, so YOU logically conclude that it was some reason other than slavery.

Dumb ass.

Not every state wrote a detailed Declarations of Secession. But every one that did cried like a little bitch about losing all of its slave "property".

I guess the other states were too embarrassed to go on the record and say they were leaving to keep slavery intact.

More bullshit from the tranny fucker.

I asked you repeatedly for citations to any of the Declarations of Secession and YOU decide to substitute the short Ordinances ratified by some of the legislatures.

They are NOT equivalent.

Florida's Ordinance is only a single long sentence with NO reason for seceding.

Most of them don't state ANY reason for secession. They just declare they are seceding That's why I didn't ask for them. Are we supposed to conclude the left for no reason?

You are committing a logical error called "arguing from silence". You would know that if you were as educated as you pretend to be.

Most of the ordinances are silent as to the reasons for seceding, so YOU logically conclude that it was some reason other than slavery.

Dumb ass.

Not every state wrote a detailed Declarations of Secession. But every one that did cried like a little bitch about losing all of its slave "property".

I guess the other states were too embarrassed to go on the record and say they were leaving to keep slavery intact. Originally Posted by ExNYer

Mental masterbation. You've got to be tired by now. Is the spelling ok?