I can only hope that I get you as a corporate rep in front of a jury one day in a good county where your company has refused to add a $15 safety option to a automobile gas tank, where a father who escaped a crash watched and had to listen his family crying out to him to save them while the burned to death in a post crash fuel-fed fire. Because if I do, I'll break the fuckin' bank. Thank God, it's assholes who have the same attitude as you and think that profits are more important that the safety of consumers that keep me in business. Originally Posted by TexTushHogI have read a reasonable number of your posts and have formulated an opinion. Based upon that opinion, I don't think I'm going to tell you anything you haven't heard numerous times before. Defense verdict.
- Marshall
- 03-17-2011, 06:34 PM
- Marcus Aurelius
- 03-17-2011, 09:19 PM
The news channels keep saying that everyone is guessing whether there is water in the spent fuel rod pool. There is a hole in the wall and the roof.
Why cant they use a R/C helicopter with a camera? Does the radiation emit a EM Field that would disable one?
Why cant they use a R/C helicopter with a camera? Does the radiation emit a EM Field that would disable one?
- Iaintliein
- 03-18-2011, 08:11 AM
I recently read that over the last ten years there have been 7 deaths related to nuclear power plants. . . 44 from wind farms. So I did a quick google and found this interesting article.
http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/np-risk.htm
No one knows how bad the situation is, but pretty much everyone who isn't the subject of a Geico commercial knows the media is over hyping it.
http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/np-risk.htm
No one knows how bad the situation is, but pretty much everyone who isn't the subject of a Geico commercial knows the media is over hyping it.
- Guest083011
- 03-18-2011, 10:08 AM
The blog entry from the MIT Nuclear Science and Engineering group provides a better and more informative description of the workers' exposure than the one from the Daily Mail.
http://mitnse.com/2011/03/17/progres...11-330-pm-est/
http://mitnse.com/2011/03/17/progres...11-330-pm-est/
- Marshall
- 03-18-2011, 10:19 AM
The blog entry from the MIT Nuclear Science and Engineering group provides a better and more informative description of the workers' exposure than the one from the Daily Mail.A GLOWING REPORT ON RADIATION
http://mitnse.com/2011/03/17/progres...11-330-pm-est/ Originally Posted by SR Only
by Ann Coulter
March 16, 2011
With the terrible earthquake and resulting tsunami that have devastated Japan, the only good news is that anyone exposed to excess radiation from the nuclear power plants is now probably much less likely to get cancer.
This only seems counterintuitive because of media hysteria for the past 20 years trying to convince Americans that radiation at any dose is bad. There is, however, burgeoning evidence that excess radiation operates as a sort of cancer vaccine.
As The New York Times science section reported in 2001, an increasing number of scientists believe that at some level -- much higher than the minimums set by the U.S. government -- radiation is good for you. "They theorize," the Times said, that "these doses protect against cancer by activating cells' natural defense mechanisms."
Among the studies mentioned by the Times was one in Canada finding that tuberculosis patients subjected to multiple chest X-rays had much lower rates of breast cancer than the general population.
And there are lots more!
A $10 million Department of Energy study from 1991 examined 10 years of epidemiological research by the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health on 700,000 shipyard workers, some of whom had been exposed to 10 times more radiation than the others from their work on the ships' nuclear reactors. The workers exposed to excess radiation had a 24 percent lower death rate and a 25 percent lower cancer mortality than the non-irradiated workers.
Isn't that just incredible? I mean, that the Department of Energy spent $10 million doing something useful? Amazing, right?
In 1983, a series of apartment buildings in Taiwan were accidentally constructed with massive amounts of cobalt 60, a radioactive substance. After 16 years, the buildings' 10,000 occupants developed only five cases of cancer. The cancer rate for the same age group in the general Taiwanese population over that time period predicted 170 cancers.
The people in those buildings had been exposed to radiation nearly five times the maximum "safe" level according to the U.S. government. But they ended up with a cancer rate 96 percent lower than the general population.
Bernard L. Cohen, a physics professor at the University of Pittsburgh, compared radon exposure and lung cancer rates in 1,729 counties covering 90 percent of the U.S. population. His study in the 1990s found far fewer cases of lung cancer in those counties with the highest amounts of radon -- a correlation that could not be explained by smoking rates.
Tom Bethell, author of the The Politically Incorrect Guide to Science
![](http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/%22http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=anncoulter-20&l=as2&o=1&a=089526031X")
has been writing for years about the beneficial effects of some radiation, or "hormesis." A few years ago, he reported on a group of scientists who concluded their conference on hormesis at the University of Massachusetts by repairing to a spa in Boulder, Mont., specifically in order to expose themselves to excess radiation. At the Free Enterprise Radon Health Mine in Boulder, people pay $5 to descend 85 feet into an old mining pit to be irradiated with more than 400 times the EPA-recommended level of radon. In the summer, 50 people a day visit the mine hoping for relief from chronic pain and autoimmune disorders.
Amazingly, even the Soviet-engineered disaster at Chernobyl in 1986 can be directly blamed for the deaths of no more than the 31 people inside the plant who died in the explosion. Although news reports generally claimed a few thousand people died as a result of Chernobyl -- far fewer than the tens of thousands initially predicted -- that hasn't been confirmed by studies.
Indeed, after endless investigations, including by the United Nations, Manhattan Project veteran Theodore Rockwell summarized the reports to Bethell in 2002, saying, "They have not yet reported any deaths outside of the 30 who died in the plant."
Even the thyroid cancers in people who lived near the reactor were attributed to low iodine in the Russian diet -- and consequently had no effect on the cancer rate.
Meanwhile, the animals around the Chernobyl reactor, who were not evacuated, are "thriving," according to scientists quoted in the April 28, 2002 Sunday Times (UK).
Dr. Dade W. Moeller, a radiation expert and professor emeritus at Harvard, told The New York Times that it's been hard to find excess cancers even from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, particularly because one-third of the population will get cancer anyway. There were about 90,000 survivors of the atomic bombs in 1945 and, more than 50 years later, half of them were still alive. (Other scientists say there were 700 excess cancer deaths among the 90,000.)
Although it is hardly a settled scientific fact that excess radiation is a health benefit, there's certainly evidence that it decreases the risk of some cancers -- and there are plenty of scientists willing to say so. But Jenny McCarthy's vaccine theories get more press than Harvard physics professors' studies on the potential benefits of radiation. (And they say conservatives are anti-science!)
I guess good radiation stories are not as exciting as news anchors warning of mutant humans and scary nuclear power plants -- news anchors who, by the way, have injected small amounts of poison into their foreheads to stave off wrinkles. Which is to say: The general theory that small amounts of toxins can be healthy is widely accepted --except in the case of radiation.
Every day Americans pop multivitamins containing trace amount of zinc, magnesium, selenium, copper, manganese, chromium, molybdenum, nickel, boron -- all poisons.
They get flu shots. They'll drink copious amounts of coffee to ingest a poison: caffeine. (Back in the '70s, Professor Cohen offered to eat as much plutonium as Ralph Nader would eat caffeine -- an offer Nader never accepted.)
But in the case of radiation, the media have Americans convinced that the minutest amount is always deadly.
Although reporters love to issue sensationalized reports about the danger from Japan's nuclear reactors, remember that, so far, thousands have died only because of Mother Nature. And the survivors may outlive all of us over here in hermetically sealed, radiation-free America.
- Marshall
- 03-18-2011, 11:27 AM
I can only hope that I get you as a corporate rep in front of a jury one day in a good county where your company has refused to add a $15 safety option to a automobile gas tank, where a father who escaped a crash watched and had to listen his family crying out to him to save them while the burned to death in a post crash fuel-fed fire. Because if I do, I'll break the fuckin' bank. Thank God, it's assholes who have the same attitude as you and think that profits are more important that the safety of consumers that keep me in business. Originally Posted by TexTushHogWhy can't you see that many capitalists see safety as a profitable business objective.....
You comdemn the GREEDY-EVIL corporations and vow allegiance to the little guy, but is that really so? You want to "break the fuckin' bank." Aren't you being greedy?
What's your beef with capitalism and your hypocritical relationship with greed?
Anyway, here's a little sample of the Great Milton Friedman on capitalism and greed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1...eature=related
- Marshall
- 03-18-2011, 11:34 AM
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev_Up...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPqdRqacpFk&NR=1
see part 2 where he addresses the Ford Pinto........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev_Up...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPqdRqacpFk&NR=1
see part 2 where he addresses the Ford Pinto........
- Guest083011
- 03-20-2011, 02:02 PM
This came to me from an aviation list. It's fourth-hand, so I can't verify it. The tone is generally credible, though.
This narration reminds us of a success story: Although a full schedule of international flights was headed for Tokyo/Narita at the time of the earthquake, all of them were successfully diverted to other airports. The system was clearly stressed, but it coped.
This also helps to explain why it was hard to get a flight out even after Narita reopened -- most of the aircraft were in airports that weren't very well equipped to handle them, and many of them were parked in by other aircraft. As a result, getting the system running again was probably even more complicated that restoring service after a weather delay.
MS
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Fw: Airline Captain reports flying to Japan
From Delta:Airlines Captain flying to Japan
Another earthquake saga….
I'm currently still in one piece, writing from my room in the Tokyo/Narita crew
hotel. It's 8am. This is my inaugural trans-pacific trip as a brand new,
recently checked out, international 767 Captain and it has been interesting,
to say the least, so far. I've crossed the Atlantic three times so far so the
ocean crossing procedures were familiar.
By the way, stunning scenery flying over the Aleutian Islands. Everything was
going fine until 100 miles out from Tokyo and in the descent for arrival. The
first indication of any trouble was that Japan air traffic control
started putting
everyone into holding patterns. At first we thought it was usual congestion on
arrival. Then we got a company data link message advising about the
earthquake, followed by another stating Narita airport was temporarily closed
for inspection and expected to open shortly (the company is always so
positive).
From our perspective things were obviously looking a little different. The
Japanese controller's anxiety level seemed quite high and he said expect
"indefinite" holding time. No one would commit to a time frame on that so I
got my copilot and relief pilot busy looking at divert stations and our fuel
situation, which, after an ocean crossing is typically low.
It wasn't long, maybe ten minutes, before the first pilots started requesting
diversions to other airports. Air Canada, American, United, etc. all reporting
minimal fuel situations. I still had enough fuel for 1.5 to 2.0 hours
of holding.
Needless to say, the diverts started complicating the situation.
Japan air traffic control then announced Narita was closed indefinitely due to
damage. Planes immediately started requesting arrivals into Haneada, near
Tokyo, a half dozen JAL and western planes got clearance in that direction
but then ATC announced Haenada had just closed. Uh oh! Now instead of
just holding, we all had to start looking at more distant alternatives like
Osaka, or Nagoya.
One bad thing about a large airliner is that you can't just be-bop
into any little
airport. We generally need lots of runway. With more planes piling in from
both east and west, all needing a place to land and several now fuel critical
ATC was getting over-whelmed. In the scramble, and without waiting for my
fuel to get critical, I got my flight a clearance to head for Nagoya, fuel
situation still okay. So far so good. A few minutes into heading that way, I
was "ordered" by ATC to reverse course. Nagoya was saturated with traffic
and unable to handle more planes (read- airport full). Ditto for Osaka.
With that statement, my situation went instantly from fuel okay, to fuel
minimal considering we might have to divert a much farther distance. Multiply
my situation by a dozen other aircraft all in the same boat, all making
demands, requests and threats to ATC for clearances somewhere. Air
Canada and then someone else went to "emergency" fuel situation. Planes
started to heading for air force bases. The nearest to Tokyo was Yokoda
AFB. I threw my hat in the ring for that initially. The answer - Yokoda closed!
no more space.
By now it was a three ring circus in the cockpit, my copilot on the radios, me
flying and making decisions and the relief copilot buried in the air charts
trying to figure out where to go that was within range while data link
messages were flying back and forth between us and company dispatch in
Atlanta. I picked Misawa AFB at the north end of Honshu island. We could
get there with minimal fuel remaining. ATC was happy to get rid of us so we
cleared out of the maelstrom of the Tokyo region. We heard ATC try to send
planes toward Sendai, a small regional airport on the coast which was later
the one I think that got flooded by a tsunami.
Atlanta dispatch then sent us a message asking if we could continue to
Chitose airport on the Island of Hokkaido, north of Honshu. Other Delta
planes were heading that way. More scrambling in the cockpit - check
weather, check charts, check fuel, okay. We could still make it and not be
going into a fuel critical situation ... if we had no other fuel delays. As we
approached Misawa we got clearance to continue to Chitose. Critical
decision thought process. Let's see - trying to help company - plane overflies
perfectly good divert airport for one farther away...wonder how that will look
in the safety report, if anything goes wrong.
Suddenly ATC comes up and gives us a vector to a fix well short of Chitose
and tells us to standby for holding instructions. Nightmare realized. Situation
rapidly deteriorating. After initially holding near Tokyo, starting a divert to
Nagoya, reversing course back to Tokyo then to re-diverting north toward
Misawa, all that happy fuel reserve that I had was vaporizing fast. My
subsequent conversation, paraphrased of course...., went something like
this:
"Sapparo Control - Delta XX requesting immediate clearance direct to
Chitose, minimum fuel, unable hold."
"Negative Ghost-Rider, the Pattern is full" <<< top gun quote <<<
"Sapparo Control - make that - Delta XX declaring emergency, low fuel,
proceeding direct Chitose"
"Roger Delta XX, understood, you are cleared direct to Chitose, contact
Chitose approach....etc...."
Enough was enough, I had decided to preempt actually running critically low
on fuel while in another indefinite holding pattern, especially after bypassing
Misawa, and played my last ace...declaring an emergency. The problem with
that is now I have a bit of company paperwork to do but what the heck.
As it was - landed Chitose, safe, with at least 30 minutes of fuel remaining
before reaching a "true" fuel emergency situation. That's always a good
feeling, being safe. They taxied us off to some remote parking area where
we shut down and watched a half dozen or more other airplanes come
streaming in. In the end, Delta had two 747s, my 767 and another 767 and a
777 all on the ramp at Chitose. We saw two American airlines planes, a
United and two Air Canada as well. Not to mention several extra Al Nippon
and Japan Air Lines planes.
Post-script - 9 hours later, Japan airlines finally got around to getting a
boarding ladder to the plane where we were able to get off and clear
customs. - that however, is another interesting story.
By the way - while writing this - I have felt four additional tremors that shook
the hotel slightly - all in 45 minutes.
Cheers,
=
This narration reminds us of a success story: Although a full schedule of international flights was headed for Tokyo/Narita at the time of the earthquake, all of them were successfully diverted to other airports. The system was clearly stressed, but it coped.
This also helps to explain why it was hard to get a flight out even after Narita reopened -- most of the aircraft were in airports that weren't very well equipped to handle them, and many of them were parked in by other aircraft. As a result, getting the system running again was probably even more complicated that restoring service after a weather delay.
MS
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Fw: Airline Captain reports flying to Japan
From Delta:Airlines Captain flying to Japan
Another earthquake saga….
I'm currently still in one piece, writing from my room in the Tokyo/Narita crew
hotel. It's 8am. This is my inaugural trans-pacific trip as a brand new,
recently checked out, international 767 Captain and it has been interesting,
to say the least, so far. I've crossed the Atlantic three times so far so the
ocean crossing procedures were familiar.
By the way, stunning scenery flying over the Aleutian Islands. Everything was
going fine until 100 miles out from Tokyo and in the descent for arrival. The
first indication of any trouble was that Japan air traffic control
started putting
everyone into holding patterns. At first we thought it was usual congestion on
arrival. Then we got a company data link message advising about the
earthquake, followed by another stating Narita airport was temporarily closed
for inspection and expected to open shortly (the company is always so
positive).
From our perspective things were obviously looking a little different. The
Japanese controller's anxiety level seemed quite high and he said expect
"indefinite" holding time. No one would commit to a time frame on that so I
got my copilot and relief pilot busy looking at divert stations and our fuel
situation, which, after an ocean crossing is typically low.
It wasn't long, maybe ten minutes, before the first pilots started requesting
diversions to other airports. Air Canada, American, United, etc. all reporting
minimal fuel situations. I still had enough fuel for 1.5 to 2.0 hours
of holding.
Needless to say, the diverts started complicating the situation.
Japan air traffic control then announced Narita was closed indefinitely due to
damage. Planes immediately started requesting arrivals into Haneada, near
Tokyo, a half dozen JAL and western planes got clearance in that direction
but then ATC announced Haenada had just closed. Uh oh! Now instead of
just holding, we all had to start looking at more distant alternatives like
Osaka, or Nagoya.
One bad thing about a large airliner is that you can't just be-bop
into any little
airport. We generally need lots of runway. With more planes piling in from
both east and west, all needing a place to land and several now fuel critical
ATC was getting over-whelmed. In the scramble, and without waiting for my
fuel to get critical, I got my flight a clearance to head for Nagoya, fuel
situation still okay. So far so good. A few minutes into heading that way, I
was "ordered" by ATC to reverse course. Nagoya was saturated with traffic
and unable to handle more planes (read- airport full). Ditto for Osaka.
With that statement, my situation went instantly from fuel okay, to fuel
minimal considering we might have to divert a much farther distance. Multiply
my situation by a dozen other aircraft all in the same boat, all making
demands, requests and threats to ATC for clearances somewhere. Air
Canada and then someone else went to "emergency" fuel situation. Planes
started to heading for air force bases. The nearest to Tokyo was Yokoda
AFB. I threw my hat in the ring for that initially. The answer - Yokoda closed!
no more space.
By now it was a three ring circus in the cockpit, my copilot on the radios, me
flying and making decisions and the relief copilot buried in the air charts
trying to figure out where to go that was within range while data link
messages were flying back and forth between us and company dispatch in
Atlanta. I picked Misawa AFB at the north end of Honshu island. We could
get there with minimal fuel remaining. ATC was happy to get rid of us so we
cleared out of the maelstrom of the Tokyo region. We heard ATC try to send
planes toward Sendai, a small regional airport on the coast which was later
the one I think that got flooded by a tsunami.
Atlanta dispatch then sent us a message asking if we could continue to
Chitose airport on the Island of Hokkaido, north of Honshu. Other Delta
planes were heading that way. More scrambling in the cockpit - check
weather, check charts, check fuel, okay. We could still make it and not be
going into a fuel critical situation ... if we had no other fuel delays. As we
approached Misawa we got clearance to continue to Chitose. Critical
decision thought process. Let's see - trying to help company - plane overflies
perfectly good divert airport for one farther away...wonder how that will look
in the safety report, if anything goes wrong.
Suddenly ATC comes up and gives us a vector to a fix well short of Chitose
and tells us to standby for holding instructions. Nightmare realized. Situation
rapidly deteriorating. After initially holding near Tokyo, starting a divert to
Nagoya, reversing course back to Tokyo then to re-diverting north toward
Misawa, all that happy fuel reserve that I had was vaporizing fast. My
subsequent conversation, paraphrased of course...., went something like
this:
"Sapparo Control - Delta XX requesting immediate clearance direct to
Chitose, minimum fuel, unable hold."
"Negative Ghost-Rider, the Pattern is full" <<< top gun quote <<<
"Sapparo Control - make that - Delta XX declaring emergency, low fuel,
proceeding direct Chitose"
"Roger Delta XX, understood, you are cleared direct to Chitose, contact
Chitose approach....etc...."
Enough was enough, I had decided to preempt actually running critically low
on fuel while in another indefinite holding pattern, especially after bypassing
Misawa, and played my last ace...declaring an emergency. The problem with
that is now I have a bit of company paperwork to do but what the heck.
As it was - landed Chitose, safe, with at least 30 minutes of fuel remaining
before reaching a "true" fuel emergency situation. That's always a good
feeling, being safe. They taxied us off to some remote parking area where
we shut down and watched a half dozen or more other airplanes come
streaming in. In the end, Delta had two 747s, my 767 and another 767 and a
777 all on the ramp at Chitose. We saw two American airlines planes, a
United and two Air Canada as well. Not to mention several extra Al Nippon
and Japan Air Lines planes.
Post-script - 9 hours later, Japan airlines finally got around to getting a
boarding ladder to the plane where we were able to get off and clear
customs. - that however, is another interesting story.
By the way - while writing this - I have felt four additional tremors that shook
the hotel slightly - all in 45 minutes.
Cheers,
=
- charlestudor2005
- 03-20-2011, 02:46 PM
@SR
Thanks for the story. Fascinating reading. He should cut and paste to the extra paperwork the co requires when he declared the emergency.
Thanks for the story. Fascinating reading. He should cut and paste to the extra paperwork the co requires when he declared the emergency.
- Marcus Aurelius
- 03-20-2011, 02:55 PM
The pilot is an azz for putting this on the internet.
- charlestudor2005
- 03-20-2011, 02:58 PM
- Guest083011
- 03-20-2011, 03:03 PM
My heart was pounding reading it. MA is it a privacy thing or pilot blue line of honor or ???
- Guest083011
- 03-20-2011, 03:05 PM
Also who says it is true? 
Granted it IS on the internet. 
Granted it IS on the internet.
- Marcus Aurelius
- 03-20-2011, 03:15 PM
It's just not cool man. That and it might bite him later.
- Guest083011
- 03-20-2011, 03:26 PM
yea I can understand about shading the truth on fuel. But if they had pushed him to another and then another. I can't blame him for wanting a buffer. I'm sure he wasn't the only one shading the truth on fuel levels.