- Brot
- 09-07-2014, 12:24 PM
I hope when I get married that if my wife gets her dick on with gigolos, she tells me it was for hairdresser appointments so I will just think the money spent was to look special for me.
- Bijou Neko
- 09-07-2014, 12:39 PM
- Old-T
- 09-07-2014, 01:45 PM
Amazing how so many of the “not married” guys have a deep, insightful understanding about something they have either never tried, or have failed at miserably. Not exactly the crowd I would look to for insight on what does or does not work well. Well maybe some examples of what does not work.
So long as the argument is defined in WU’s overly simplistic terms—that whether one sees escorts in secret is the ONLY important thing to a good marriage—then there is really no grounds for a serious discussion about the topic. Might as well try to explain the expanding universe while insisting gravity is the ONLY force that is in play.
To all the sanctimonious law breakers on here, I really do not believe that anyone on here is saying that a married man spending time with escorts without their wife’s knowledge is good. But unlike a few of you, many of us—married and unmarried alike—understand that any serious interpersonal relationship is multi-dimensional, and essentially no relationship will be perfect in every dimension at all times.
To argue that a person is weak, evil, or a coward because they do not see THEIR complex reality from YOUR overly simplistic moral set of rules is, truly, a joke. Divorce is a chain saw, not a scalpel. It breaks many aspects of a relationship, not just one. But conveniently you only see one that you claim is always and in every situation predominant over all others combined. What some of the people here are telling you is that your priorities do not fit theirs. And what I hold is—contrary to your dogmatic view—that does not make them evil or cowards. I have seen too many men (and in at least one case, woman) who has sacrificed far more to keep a marriage together because for them, the parts that are good outweigh the parts that are not. You are an arrogant egotistical blowhard if you believe you, not knowing them in any way, are appropriate to judge whether their subjective decision is right or wrong, brave or cowardly. Actually, that is exactly what you have pontificated.
It is precisely one dimensional judgments like yours that create religious intolerance, racial genocide, and many other forms of hate: “if they don’t believe in my religion they can be killed in a jihad or a crusade”, “if they are not of my heritage they need to be ethnically cleansed”, or “if they are of that skin color they belong on the other side of the tracks”. Just that one fact. Just that one aspect of a multi-faceted human being. But for the simplistic mind that one aspect blinds them to any chance of seeing the far more complex reality that makes up a human. And interpersonal relationships are even more complex than that. Whether on a personal level, community level, or national level one-dimensional logic is almost always flawed. But the simple minded do like it, it doesn’t hurt their brains.
So long as the argument is defined in WU’s overly simplistic terms—that whether one sees escorts in secret is the ONLY important thing to a good marriage—then there is really no grounds for a serious discussion about the topic. Might as well try to explain the expanding universe while insisting gravity is the ONLY force that is in play.
To all the sanctimonious law breakers on here, I really do not believe that anyone on here is saying that a married man spending time with escorts without their wife’s knowledge is good. But unlike a few of you, many of us—married and unmarried alike—understand that any serious interpersonal relationship is multi-dimensional, and essentially no relationship will be perfect in every dimension at all times.
To argue that a person is weak, evil, or a coward because they do not see THEIR complex reality from YOUR overly simplistic moral set of rules is, truly, a joke. Divorce is a chain saw, not a scalpel. It breaks many aspects of a relationship, not just one. But conveniently you only see one that you claim is always and in every situation predominant over all others combined. What some of the people here are telling you is that your priorities do not fit theirs. And what I hold is—contrary to your dogmatic view—that does not make them evil or cowards. I have seen too many men (and in at least one case, woman) who has sacrificed far more to keep a marriage together because for them, the parts that are good outweigh the parts that are not. You are an arrogant egotistical blowhard if you believe you, not knowing them in any way, are appropriate to judge whether their subjective decision is right or wrong, brave or cowardly. Actually, that is exactly what you have pontificated.
It is precisely one dimensional judgments like yours that create religious intolerance, racial genocide, and many other forms of hate: “if they don’t believe in my religion they can be killed in a jihad or a crusade”, “if they are not of my heritage they need to be ethnically cleansed”, or “if they are of that skin color they belong on the other side of the tracks”. Just that one fact. Just that one aspect of a multi-faceted human being. But for the simplistic mind that one aspect blinds them to any chance of seeing the far more complex reality that makes up a human. And interpersonal relationships are even more complex than that. Whether on a personal level, community level, or national level one-dimensional logic is almost always flawed. But the simple minded do like it, it doesn’t hurt their brains.
- Stanfeld
- 09-07-2014, 02:24 PM
It is precisely one dimensional judgments like yours that create religious intolerance, racial genocide, and many other forms of hateWhile not explicitly mentioning Hitler or Nazis you have invoked the spirit of Godwin's Law. This thread is officially over.
- Old-T
- 09-07-2014, 02:42 PM
While not explicitly mentioning Hitler or Nazis you have invoked the spirit of Godwin's Law. This thread is officially over. Originally Posted by StanfeldSo tell me, do you really see great tolerance and openmindedness in the posts before mine? I was--if you read my post--speaking out against oversimplifying a complex human relationship. How would you have made the point?
If you think this thread--or the topic--is "officially over" then you have not been a long time reader of Wakeup's crusade on this topic. It will come up again I am sure.
- Stanfeld
- 09-07-2014, 03:27 PM
Up to that point you were doing a fine job deconstructing his position, then you lost the high ground.
- Wakeup
- 09-07-2014, 05:16 PM
If Old-T&T ACTUALLY believed any of the stuff he's spouting, then there would be every reason for a married guy to have that exact conversation with his wife...and expect her to be swayed by the argument, so he could continue fucking hookers while married...
So why do none of the married guys do that?
So why do none of the married guys do that?
- Guest032117
- 09-07-2014, 05:33 PM
A minority of my clients do just what WU advocates. They have certain agreements with their wives. These clients are more open in every way, and it makes our time together much more enjoyable and organic.
- Old-T
- 09-07-2014, 05:40 PM
If Old-T&T ACTUALLY believed any of the stuff he's spouting, then there would be every reason for a married guy to have that exact conversation with his wife...and expect her to be swayed by the argument, so he could continue fucking hookers while married...You are still unable or unwilling to comprehend. You are still dealing with the argument in one dimension when it is not. You are insisting your moral values do and should apply to everyone.
So why do none of the married guys do that? Originally Posted by Wakeup
I will let you stay happy in your oversimplified dream world since it is clear you have no desire to open your mind on the issue.
- Wakeup
- 09-07-2014, 05:49 PM
Explain that to me.
If their wives believed as they do, that divorce is such a "chainsaw", and would rip their lives apart, and the lives of their kids, why could the wives not see, as the hobbyist does, that it's best to stay together and allow him to see hookers? If it's true that the benefits of being married to an adulterer, outweigh the downsides of being divorced from an adulterer, then why will the wives not believe that as well?
If anything you say is true, then where is the downside of telling the wives?
If their wives believed as they do, that divorce is such a "chainsaw", and would rip their lives apart, and the lives of their kids, why could the wives not see, as the hobbyist does, that it's best to stay together and allow him to see hookers? If it's true that the benefits of being married to an adulterer, outweigh the downsides of being divorced from an adulterer, then why will the wives not believe that as well?
If anything you say is true, then where is the downside of telling the wives?
- HammockedHank
- 09-07-2014, 05:53 PM
i'm openminded. except about the part where deception is cool. lie to me and we done. why you don't respect your old lady enough to be straight up?
- cabletex7
- 09-07-2014, 06:50 PM
I am not judging you for cheating on your wife. I am judging you on the reasoning that you are using to justify doing so. You don't even have to take my word that your logic is psychotic. Check with your wife. After all what you two think about this is what matters. Pose your argument to her, as a hypothetical. You can lie to her and say that this was a discussion that some of the guys at work were having.
- Guest043022
- 09-07-2014, 07:07 PM
All situations are different on both sides of the fence.In my case, my wife is sick and has been for a long time and her illness prevents intimacy between us.Understanding that I still have the need for sex, I have permission to do what I do as long as discretion is used and it is not thrown up in her face, which I respect and adhere to.I love her enough to stay married and seek my needs elsewhere ,but at the end of the day I go home to her with no regrets and no guilt.
- jbravo_123
- 09-07-2014, 07:45 PM
All situations are different on both sides of the fence.In my case, my wife is sick and has been for a long time and her illness prevents intimacy between us.Understanding that I still have the need for sex, I have permission to do what I do as long as discretion is used and it is not thrown up in her face, which I respect and adhere to.I love her enough to stay married and seek my needs elsewhere ,but at the end of the day I go home to her with no regrets and no guilt. Originally Posted by RiverstudAnd that's fine by my book. You're both on the same page about what you're doing and she's an informed partner in the relationship. It's an unfortunate situation and hardly optimal, but at least you are both honest with each other about it.
I think the situation that those of us against cheating are talking about is the one where one partner goes behind the other's back (at least this is the one I am talking about when I talk about "cheating").
If your partner knows what you're doing and is cool with it, more power to the both of you.
- Wakeup
- 09-07-2014, 07:56 PM
All situations are different on both sides of the fence.In my case, my wife is sick and has been for a long time and her illness prevents intimacy between us.Understanding that I still have the need for sex, I have permission to do what I do as long as discretion is used and it is not thrown up in her face, which I respect and adhere to.I love her enough to stay married and seek my needs elsewhere ,but at the end of the day I go home to her with no regrets and no guilt. Originally Posted by RiverstudPerfectly fine...well done...