You may read them, plagiarize them, but you rarely understand them. Originally Posted by CuteOldGuyYou mean the menu of coffee selections or ....
....... the instructions on how to clean golf balls?
- LexusLover
- 01-08-2016, 02:32 PM
....... the instructions on how to clean golf balls?
- WTF
- 01-08-2016, 04:08 PM
- WTF
- 01-08-2016, 04:10 PM
- CuteOldGuy
- 01-09-2016, 12:49 AM
I understand that you have called DSK a moron for posting what is basically the truth.Neither you nor he have a clue. Keep digging your hole, WPF. If it's any comfort to you, you are a bigger moron than he is, and he's not a misogynist.
Is stating the truth now grounds for being called a moron?
. Originally Posted by WTF
- lustylad
- 01-09-2016, 03:49 AM
Nation building is a liberal endeavor....
Ok then - you're a liberal so list your success stories.
Please quit embarrassing yourself.
Please quit pretending to be an expert in supply and demand, oil markets, and the complexities of the Middle East - unless you enjoy being exposed as a phony ignorant fuck in all three.
please read exNYer latest post and try and get a grip on the Saudis.
I responded to ex-NYer in post #112. Now why don't you jump in and embarrass yourself all over again, fagboy? Originally Posted by WTF
- LexusLover
- 01-09-2016, 04:44 AM
- LexusLover
- 01-09-2016, 04:51 AM
Obama has succeeded in getting us almost into war.
Yep, Obama has allowed things to get out of hand in three parts of the world while continuing to reduce our navy, air force, and ground forces. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn
It's just you only read books you can understand, but you don't learn from them!Before you fly off onto one of your infamous tantrum tangents I wanted to post the OP .... which began this thread!
There are lessons in those books, but you haven't caught up yet! Originally Posted by LexusLover
BTW: You really ought to have a chat with IBH. He's beginning to "emulate" you, by fabricating what people post and then proclaiming you have "schooled" or "educated" posters with your posts! See what you have caused?
- WTF
- 01-09-2016, 08:25 AM
Neither you nor he have a clue. Keep digging your hole, WPF. If it's any comfort to you, you are a bigger moron than he is, and he's not a misogynist. Originally Posted by CuteOldGuyYou called DSK a moron for posting the truth. You did not post anything to counter what he said as being a falsehood. You now are calling me a moron for pointing out your ignorance and a misogynist. Are you calling me a misogynist because you argue like a little girl?
You can not seem to stick to the facts in a debate COGay. Why is that.
- WTF
- 01-09-2016, 08:34 AM
..
Originally Posted by WTF
Nation building is a liberal endeavor...
Ok then - you're a liberal so list your success stories.
I'm not a liberal. I simply stated a fact. Nation Building is a liberal philosophy. NeoCons co-opted that notion as something good. It can work out good or bad. That is not my point. My point was that it is a liberal philosophy. If you say you are a Conservative and you believe in Nation Building, you then believe in what is a liberal philosophy. That is just a fact.
Please quit embarrassing yourself.
Please quit pretending to be an expert in supply and demand, oil markets, and the complexities of the
Middle East - unless you enjoy being exposed as a phony ignorant fuck in all three.
We could have open up Iraq's oil without going to war. You do understand that right.
please read exNYer latest post and try and get a grip on the Saudis.
I responded to ex-NYer in post #112. Now why don't you jump in and embarrass
yourself all over again, fagboy?
I will jump in and destroy you convoluted view that you are a Conservative and yet believe in nation building.
Originally Posted by lustylad
- WTF
- 01-09-2016, 09:06 AM
Originally Posted by ExNYer
I guess you are in the oil business, huh>
Nope. I follow the oil markets as an economist.
The Saudis are NOT our allies. And the Russians are not really our adversaries - although they aren't allies either.
We have disagreements with our allies and we seek common ground with our adversaries. So what? Not all of our allies are as close to us as the UK or the Germans. We disagree with the Israelis all the time – are they not an ally? The country you should be beating up for being a dubious piss-poor “ally” is Pakistan. Saudi Arabia is a much better and more strategically important ally.
You are almost there. You just can not seem to cross the finish line. What he is saying is that no country is our ally. Period. Quit being so naïve in thinking so. Think outside the box.
The Saudis USE us.
And we don't USE them? We have mutual interests on many issues. We use each other. That's the nature of the beast in relations between nations. At least you're not making that stupid libtard argument that we're greedy "corporatists” who are stealing their oil or forcing them to sell it on disadvantageous terms. Your complaint is just the opposite - they're using us and outsmarting us, right? You need to elaborate. I don't know what your point is.
Maybe because you are an oil economist and not focused on the macro like you are on the micro...
Try to remember the oil embargo in 1973 when they tried to cripple OUR economy, idiot.
I recall it well. The Arab oil embargo was imposed during the Yom Kippur War in an attempt to weaken Western support for Israel. At a time when global oil demand was on an upswing and oil markets were tight, the embargo resulted in a quadrupling of the price of crude from roughly $3 to $12 a barrel. OPEC discovered its leverage as a cartel. The embargo was a shock, but the price of oil was poised to go up eventually due to fundamental supply and demand trends. Why do you blame it all on the Saudis? The Shah of Iran played a major role too, along with the rest of OPEC. In the four decades since then, the Saudis have behaved quite responsibly in their oil decisions. You overlook the fact that they have investments in the West totaling hundreds of billions of dollars. They know those holdings would tank if they tried to cripple our economy.
Now why don't YOU try to remember what happened to oil prices in the mid-1980s? There was a glut (similar to today's oil surplus) that drove the price down as low as $9 a barrel at one point. Back then, the Texas economy was much more dependent on the energy industry than it is today. Then-VP George H.W. Bush was dispatched to Riyadh to ask the Saudis to cut their production to halt the slide in prices since it had gone too far and was hurting the US energy industry. The Saudis complied and prices soon rebounded. That's just one example of why we view them as an ally. But given the way Odumbo has now fucked up the relationship, I doubt if they would be as accommodating today.
So they cut oil prices a GHWB request and that is an example of how in tune they are with our wants? That is wtf you are hanging your ally belief on?
Ever since that time, the US has avoided getting dependent on oil from any Muslim country. We get/have gotten most of our oil from Venezuela, Mexico, and Canada. And we did that because we know deep down inside that the Saudis are NOT our allies and cannot be trusted.
Weak argument. It made economic sense for us to switch to neighboring suppliers and let other countries load up at Ras Tanura. Venezuela is much less of an “ally” than Saudi Arabia. And as I mentioned already, the Saudis want to protect the value of their Western investments. We can at least trust them not to shoot themselves in the foot. I am much more concerned about the Russians using energy as a political weapon to undermine our interests than the Saudis.
You would be a fool to trust either. They as we , have nothing but their self interest at heart. Once you realize that, you make better decision as a nation. That is the point you are missing from exNYer's point. The Saudis are not our allies. No nation is.
They play a cynical game of manipulating Islamic fervor for their own power and benefit.
You mean the House of Saud strives to stay in power and avoid getting overthrown? I'm shocked. As the custodians of Mecca and Medina, they do need to keep their Islamic legitimacy. Was it “manipulation” for them to behead dozens of al Queda members in public last week? Is it manipulation to try to co-opt radicals? I won't whitewash their actions, but they clearly understand the roots of Islamic fundamentalism better than you or I do. I would rather have a relationship with a regime we can lean on privately to rein in the madrassas. You would stupidly prefer to turn the country over to crazed jihadists, with whom we will have no relationship other than trying to kill each other.
So you do not want to enter into a relationship with Iran to help them try and privately to rein in the madrassas. You do understand at one time we had that relationship with Iran? I realize you will not see the irony. You are a Conservative Nation building Liberal that looks a photo in time for information instead of looking at the whole picture as an evolving eco system.
And they don't much care if the jihadist crazies they stoke cause massive harm in the rest of the world so long as they don't cause trouble within the kingdom.
Try to remember we worked together (along with the Pakistanis) to “stoke” Islamist resistance to the Russians in Afghanistan back in the 1980s. Most of the groups we “stoked” were not bent on causing “massive harm in the rest of the world”. In recent years we've both been attacked by miscreant groups like al Queda and ISIS. I defy you to name one group inflicting “massive harm” on us that isn't also causing “trouble within the kingdom”.
Again you miss the big picture point. The Saudis do not give a fuck about harm to us. They care about harm to them. That has been exNYer's point from the start. You gaze over it as though he has not consistently said it. Yes the Saudis may help us if it is in their best interests but they are not our ally because they sure as fuck will not help us if it is not in their best interest. Nor should they. Nor should any country on a macro scale or individual on a micro scale. You nativity is showing.
Fuck them. Fuck the land of 10,000 princes. Fuck their misogynistic culture, their homophobic culture, their intolerant culture. We abet their repressive policies every time we help "stabilize" the region.
Fuck, fuck, fuck. Now you're losing it. What are you trying to say? You're upset because they don't let women drive in Saudi Arabia? So your solution is to turn over those horribly oppressed women to the Jihadi Johns? Then they'll feel much more liberated, I'm sure.
Let then fight their own Civil War, much like we did 150 years ago.
Maybe what is needed is a disastrous war in the Middle East that kills millions to finally wake up the secular movement in those nations.
Yeah, that's the ticket! Bring on a war that kills millions! And I thought you were one of the more rational posters in this forum. Evidently not. Good luck with that war to “wake up a secular movement”. History (including the recent history of the Arab Spring) teaches it is much more likely to wake up violent jihadists who will hijack the revolution and snuff out any secular stirrings.
We suppressed women and blacks for centuries. Are we not now a fine nation? Let them sort out their on problems. Quit with the liberal nation building. Or quit calling yourself a Conservative.
The Turks had their moment of awakening after the disaster of WWI. War sometimes does that
Turks and Saudis are very different. And Turkey under Erdogan is becoming less secular, not more.
Our support of the Kurds has something to do with that....there is a huge backlash against us in Turkey. It has shown at the polls. You do understand Turkey (our ally according to folks like you) did not support the invasion of Iraq.
I guess you are in the oil business, huh>
Nope. I follow the oil markets as an economist.
The Saudis are NOT our allies. And the Russians are not really our adversaries - although they aren't allies either.
We have disagreements with our allies and we seek common ground with our adversaries. So what? Not all of our allies are as close to us as the UK or the Germans. We disagree with the Israelis all the time – are they not an ally? The country you should be beating up for being a dubious piss-poor “ally” is Pakistan. Saudi Arabia is a much better and more strategically important ally.
You are almost there. You just can not seem to cross the finish line. What he is saying is that no country is our ally. Period. Quit being so naïve in thinking so. Think outside the box.
The Saudis USE us.
And we don't USE them? We have mutual interests on many issues. We use each other. That's the nature of the beast in relations between nations. At least you're not making that stupid libtard argument that we're greedy "corporatists” who are stealing their oil or forcing them to sell it on disadvantageous terms. Your complaint is just the opposite - they're using us and outsmarting us, right? You need to elaborate. I don't know what your point is.
Maybe because you are an oil economist and not focused on the macro like you are on the micro...
Try to remember the oil embargo in 1973 when they tried to cripple OUR economy, idiot.
I recall it well. The Arab oil embargo was imposed during the Yom Kippur War in an attempt to weaken Western support for Israel. At a time when global oil demand was on an upswing and oil markets were tight, the embargo resulted in a quadrupling of the price of crude from roughly $3 to $12 a barrel. OPEC discovered its leverage as a cartel. The embargo was a shock, but the price of oil was poised to go up eventually due to fundamental supply and demand trends. Why do you blame it all on the Saudis? The Shah of Iran played a major role too, along with the rest of OPEC. In the four decades since then, the Saudis have behaved quite responsibly in their oil decisions. You overlook the fact that they have investments in the West totaling hundreds of billions of dollars. They know those holdings would tank if they tried to cripple our economy.
Now why don't YOU try to remember what happened to oil prices in the mid-1980s? There was a glut (similar to today's oil surplus) that drove the price down as low as $9 a barrel at one point. Back then, the Texas economy was much more dependent on the energy industry than it is today. Then-VP George H.W. Bush was dispatched to Riyadh to ask the Saudis to cut their production to halt the slide in prices since it had gone too far and was hurting the US energy industry. The Saudis complied and prices soon rebounded. That's just one example of why we view them as an ally. But given the way Odumbo has now fucked up the relationship, I doubt if they would be as accommodating today.
So they cut oil prices a GHWB request and that is an example of how in tune they are with our wants? That is wtf you are hanging your ally belief on?
Ever since that time, the US has avoided getting dependent on oil from any Muslim country. We get/have gotten most of our oil from Venezuela, Mexico, and Canada. And we did that because we know deep down inside that the Saudis are NOT our allies and cannot be trusted.
Weak argument. It made economic sense for us to switch to neighboring suppliers and let other countries load up at Ras Tanura. Venezuela is much less of an “ally” than Saudi Arabia. And as I mentioned already, the Saudis want to protect the value of their Western investments. We can at least trust them not to shoot themselves in the foot. I am much more concerned about the Russians using energy as a political weapon to undermine our interests than the Saudis.
You would be a fool to trust either. They as we , have nothing but their self interest at heart. Once you realize that, you make better decision as a nation. That is the point you are missing from exNYer's point. The Saudis are not our allies. No nation is.
They play a cynical game of manipulating Islamic fervor for their own power and benefit.
You mean the House of Saud strives to stay in power and avoid getting overthrown? I'm shocked. As the custodians of Mecca and Medina, they do need to keep their Islamic legitimacy. Was it “manipulation” for them to behead dozens of al Queda members in public last week? Is it manipulation to try to co-opt radicals? I won't whitewash their actions, but they clearly understand the roots of Islamic fundamentalism better than you or I do. I would rather have a relationship with a regime we can lean on privately to rein in the madrassas. You would stupidly prefer to turn the country over to crazed jihadists, with whom we will have no relationship other than trying to kill each other.
So you do not want to enter into a relationship with Iran to help them try and privately to rein in the madrassas. You do understand at one time we had that relationship with Iran? I realize you will not see the irony. You are a Conservative Nation building Liberal that looks a photo in time for information instead of looking at the whole picture as an evolving eco system.
And they don't much care if the jihadist crazies they stoke cause massive harm in the rest of the world so long as they don't cause trouble within the kingdom.
Try to remember we worked together (along with the Pakistanis) to “stoke” Islamist resistance to the Russians in Afghanistan back in the 1980s. Most of the groups we “stoked” were not bent on causing “massive harm in the rest of the world”. In recent years we've both been attacked by miscreant groups like al Queda and ISIS. I defy you to name one group inflicting “massive harm” on us that isn't also causing “trouble within the kingdom”.
Again you miss the big picture point. The Saudis do not give a fuck about harm to us. They care about harm to them. That has been exNYer's point from the start. You gaze over it as though he has not consistently said it. Yes the Saudis may help us if it is in their best interests but they are not our ally because they sure as fuck will not help us if it is not in their best interest. Nor should they. Nor should any country on a macro scale or individual on a micro scale. You nativity is showing.
Fuck them. Fuck the land of 10,000 princes. Fuck their misogynistic culture, their homophobic culture, their intolerant culture. We abet their repressive policies every time we help "stabilize" the region.
Fuck, fuck, fuck. Now you're losing it. What are you trying to say? You're upset because they don't let women drive in Saudi Arabia? So your solution is to turn over those horribly oppressed women to the Jihadi Johns? Then they'll feel much more liberated, I'm sure.
Let then fight their own Civil War, much like we did 150 years ago.
Maybe what is needed is a disastrous war in the Middle East that kills millions to finally wake up the secular movement in those nations.
Yeah, that's the ticket! Bring on a war that kills millions! And I thought you were one of the more rational posters in this forum. Evidently not. Good luck with that war to “wake up a secular movement”. History (including the recent history of the Arab Spring) teaches it is much more likely to wake up violent jihadists who will hijack the revolution and snuff out any secular stirrings.
We suppressed women and blacks for centuries. Are we not now a fine nation? Let them sort out their on problems. Quit with the liberal nation building. Or quit calling yourself a Conservative.
The Turks had their moment of awakening after the disaster of WWI. War sometimes does that
Turks and Saudis are very different. And Turkey under Erdogan is becoming less secular, not more.
Our support of the Kurds has something to do with that....there is a huge backlash against us in Turkey. It has shown at the polls. You do understand Turkey (our ally according to folks like you) did not support the invasion of Iraq.
. Originally Posted by lustylad
- LexusLover
- 01-09-2016, 02:46 PM
WTF: "That is just a fact."According to WTF....." just a fact"! Of course, IT IS A FACT that just because WTF says it is "a fact" doesn't mean it is "a fact." It's "just a fact" in his ....err.... "mind"?
Is it a "liberal philosophy" to build this country rather than other countries?
- WTF
- 01-09-2016, 06:15 PM
According to WTF....." just a fact"! Of course, IT IS A FACT that just because WTF says it is "a fact" doesn't mean it is "a fact." It's "just a fact" in his ....err.... "mind"?Be more specific LexusLover. ...nation building is a liberal philosophy. That is a fact. Would you like to present a counter claim? Explain why you think I'm wrong?
Is it a "liberal philosophy" to build this country rather than other countries? Originally Posted by LexusLover
Not sure how you are trying to word your question. Try again.
- lustylad
- 01-09-2016, 06:19 PM
You are almost there. You just can not seem to cross the finish line. What he is saying is that no country is our ally. Period. Quit being so naïve in thinking so. Think outside the box.I take full responsibility for having invited an idiot like WTF into what was heretofore an intelligent conversation with ex-NYer. Thinking it would be fun to watch him embarrass himself, I failed to appreciate how embarrassed I would be in reading his worthless, time-wasting lame-ass comments.
"No country is our ally" - brilliant! Why did I invite you into the conversation? Hey ex-NYer, please accept my apology for letting fagboy jump in here and presume to speak for you.
Maybe because you are an oil economist and not focused on the macro like you are on the micro...
Listen fagboy, I know you like to use buzzwords such as macro/micro because you think they make you sound conversant in economics. Do us a favor - try to use them to make an appropriate point about economics, not foreign policy. Otherwise you only make yourself look stupid.
So they cut oil prices a GHWB request and that is an example of how in tune they are with our wants? That is wtf you are hanging your ally belief on?
No, I am hanging it on the fact that when I asked you to give King Abdullah a better blowjob than Odumbo did, you came through with flying colors. Afterwards the King even said "awesome, that binds us as allies!"
You would be a fool to trust either. They as we , have nothing but their self interest at heart. Once you realize that, you make better decision as a nation. That is the point you are missing from exNYer's point. The Saudis are not our allies. No nation is.
Another brilliant point - nations should act in their own self-interest. Wow! Never thought of that before! Hey ex-NYer, sorry again for letting this asshole presume to speak for you!
So you do not want to enter into a relationship with Iran to help them try and privately to rein in the madrassas. You do understand at one time we had that relationship with Iran? I realize you will not see the irony. You are a Conservative Nation building Liberal that looks a photo in time for information instead of looking at the whole picture as an evolving eco system.
Hold that brilliant thought until after you bring back the Peacock Throne. The mullahs will never stop hating us, but they know how to lull suckers like you and Odumbo into thinking they will. Did you just call me a "Conservative Liberal"??? Did you really just say "...evolving eco system"? For me to even respond to your mindless gibberish only encourages you to spew out more. Honestly, life is too short to suffer fools like you. I can't do this.
Again you miss the big picture point. The Saudis do not give a fuck about harm to us. They care about harm to them. That has been exNYer's point from the start. You gaze over it as though he has not consistently said it. Yes the Saudis may help us if it is in their best interests but they are not our ally because they sure as fuck will not help us if it is not in their best interest. Nor should they. Nor should any country on a macro scale or individual on a micro scale. You nativity is showing.
Hey ex-NYer - for the third time in this post, I apologize for letting this jackass hijack your thoughts. There he goes using his "macro/micro" buzzwords again thinking he is making a profound point about foreign policy.
"Your nativity is showing"??? Hey fagboy, Christmas is over! You can take down your tree, your lights, your NATIVITY scene and all your other decorations now!
Let then fight their own Civil War, much like we did 150 years ago.
Just when I thought you couldn't look any dumber, now you want to call a clash between rival nations a "civil war"? Please don't even TRY to elaborate on that one.
We suppressed women and blacks for centuries. Are we not now a fine nation? Let them sort out their on problems. Quit with the liberal nation building. Or quit calling yourself a Conservative.
Hey dickhead, fyi this conversation has nothing to do with "nation building". You're going down your favorite rabbit hole and it isn't relevant here. I am explaining why we need to MAINTAIN a relationship with the ruling House of Saud, not tear it down and build up something else to replace it.
Our support of the Kurds has something to do with that....there is a huge backlash against us in Turkey. It has shown at the polls. You do understand Turkey (our ally according to folks like you) did not support the invasion of Iraq.
More irrelevance. You can't even stay on point for 5 seconds. Fyi I am very much aware of the nuances in our relationship with Ankara. Both of us are NATO members. That makes us treaty-bound ALLIES. Originally Posted by WTF
.
- WTF
- 01-09-2016, 06:57 PM
I take full responsibility for having invited an idiot like WTF into what was heretofore an intelligent conversation with ex-NYer. Thinking it would be fun to watch him embarrass himself, I failed to appreciate how embarrassed I would be in reading his worthless, time-wasting lame-ass comments.Basically exNYer has said the Saudis are not our allies any more that Russia is our enemy. ..and you have tried to argue they are. I agree with exNYer.
. Originally Posted by lustylad
You're a liberal's nation building wet dream.
Make yourself useful and tell me why i should bet on the Steelers. I really want to but with fans that post like you...it is really hard to.
.
- lustylad
- 01-09-2016, 07:20 PM