What is sin and mans relation to God?

What silly logic OH uses, like Jesus, the Apostles, and Paul
had some real estate and treasure from the Orient grab
as there goal in life.

It is clear from reading the Gospels that they believed what they
were preaching, or they were telling and promoting a known lie.

Why? They all claimed to be witnesses to the miracles they described,
not just that they heard about such things, but actual witnesses to them.

So you have two choices, ether they were all a bunch of liars or they were telling
the truth.

Again I ask the question. Who would be willing to suffer and die for a known lie?

One thing I think you will find that all Martyrs have in common.

They all fully believe in the cause and claims they are dying for.

We've been through this...no kid pics. CC

Oh, but you are one ignorant fuck, you turd-tongued golem. Since when are Mao, Stalin, Lenin and Imperial Japan relegated to Medieval history, jackass? BTW, this is not "another forum", and consider your posts rate as the most non-constructive in this thread, you animated piece of shit. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

As I said, now comes the name calling...

You mentioned all of those guys from the nearly a century ago, but not nearly as much as you've spent this thread shrieking about "Historical Islamic states" and shit that happened in the sixth century.

I'm not calling you names here, because we all know what you are. I'll leave the pleasantries to you, little boy.

Oh yeah ...

And for the record. So we make NO mistake about your endless stream of personal insults and ethnic slurs, THIS is the Golem you've been talking about for weeks, right? Because I certainly don't think you've called anybody else that. In fact, I'd bet your miserable redneck hateful life on it.

We know your motivation. It's been obvious to me since the beginning, but this thread seemed an appropriate place to mention it, since you've obviously shown your intolerance for all things non-Christian.

You call someone a golem, you're talking about Jews. Period. Your characterizing this golem as a made of piss and shit only amplifies your ignorance and bigotry. Wikipedia is a bad source for you. It makes you lazy.

http://www.texemarrs.com/022008/codex_magica_golem.htm

We've been through this...no kid pics. CC Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Go FIGURE!

As I said, now comes the name calling... You epitomize hypocrisy as you scurry for some non-existent moral high ground you have long ago foresaken, you turd-tongued golem.

You mentioned all of those guys from the nearly a century ago, but not nearly as much as you've spent this thread shrieking about "Historical Islamic states" and shit that happened in the sixth century. The Ottoman Empire persisted into the 20th century, you miserable piece of animated shit and piss. And your sorry ass cannot deny that WWI, WWII, Mao, Stalin and Lenin were 20th century events and personalities, Assup the jackass.

I'm not calling you names here, because we all know what you are. I'll leave the pleasantries to you, little boy.You've done enough name-calling in this forum to justify a century's worth of retribution, jackass, so count on being reimbursed in kind!

Oh yeah ...

And for the record. So we make NO mistake about your endless stream of personal insults and ethnic slurs, THIS is the Golem you've been talking about for weeks, right? Because I certainly don't think you've called anybody else that. In fact, I'd bet your miserable redneck hateful life on it. Already explained. No one but your sorry, turd-tongued piece of animated shit-ass deserved it! BTW, you miserable golem fuck, calling someone a "redneck" is a name calling, you hypocritical piece of animated shit!

We know your motivation. It's been obvious to me since the beginning, but this thread seemed an appropriate place to mention it, since you've obviously shown your intolerance for all things non-human, like Assup the golem: which is an animated piece of shit and piss. Fixed that for you, you miserable golem fuck.

You call someone a golem, you're talking about Jews. Period. Your characterizing this golem as a made of piss and shit only amplifies your ignorance and bigotry. Wikipedia is a bad source for you. It makes you lazy.
Check again, you miserable piece of animated shit, Websters isn't Wikipedia. BTW, you're the only one being addressed here. Don't even flatter yourself by imagining you're representative of any group, you turd-tongued golem fuck. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

.

ExNYer's Quote: No, because the New Testament version of God sounds a whole lot better than the Old Testament version of God - all that smiting and smoting and pestilence and curses.

OH's response: That's what you think is your opinion. From what you are saying, it sounds like you don't realize you are paraphrasing what I said: The New Testament Gods are easier to follow than the Old Testament God.

ExNYer's Quote: I like Lewis Blacks standup routine about the books. I think the dietary restrictions in Judaism (kosher), Islam (halal) and Catholicism (no meat on Fridays during Lent) are superstitious nonsense.

OH's response: There is more than a legitimate argument by many that all religion is just superstitious nonsense.

ExNYer's Quote: So, as someone who is an agnostic or even a borderline atheist, it strikes me as odd that someone who WAS an atheist would embrace all the rules and requirements of Judaism - unless of course you are one of the Reform types that eats bacon and shrimp. And some branches of the more orthodox Jewish sects are even more backward with respect to women than Islam.

OH's response: You are entitled to be struck by whatever odd notions you want to be struck by.

ExNYer's Quote: If you are going to blame Christianity (all of it) for the most extreme Christian denominations, shouldn't you be doing the same for Judaism?

OH's response: Fair enough.

ExNYer quoting OH: You can be a Hitler and on your death bed you can take Jesus as your Savior and BOOM! All your sins are forgive and you get to go to Christian heaven with all the good guys? Sounds like grown-up Santa Clause to me.
ExNyer's Quote: That is the Cliff Notes version of what SOME Christian sects are supposed to believe. I would say the real beliefs of the mainline Christian churches regarding true repentence is more nuanced.

OH's response: ALL Christians believe in salvation. Period. The end.

ExNYer quoting OH: Besides, what do you REALLY know about the religious texts and do you do the difference between the Law and dogma? I'll bet you don't.
ExNyer's Quote: That would make two of us.

OH's response: No, you disagree with me. You don't know the first thing about world religions beyond what you hear on TV or learned in Sunday school when you were a kid. It's obvious.

ExNYer quoting Yessup: You CAN be a Jew by choice, even if your mother isn't.
ExNyer's Quote: Damn. All those Jews I grew up with lied to me.

OH's response: Then they know as much about Judaism as you do about Christianity. A Jew by Choice is someone that CONVERTS to Judaism. You can be religiously Jewish 2.1 ways. One, you are a Jew no matter what if your mother is a Jew. Two, you can convert to Judism. Point One, some liberal sects will allow Jewish status to pass through the father.

For who? The Jews in Israel? Or the Muslims?

What are you saying, exactly? Originally Posted by ExNYer

Anyone that is not Jewish. I would have thought that was obvious.

You can look up all the birth statistics and dis the more conservative sects for having many children all you want. Bottom line, Israel will remain a Jewish State. Maybe if the Palestines stop blowing up shit Israel will stop penalizing them.

Don't aggressively try to convince me my faith is wrong - especially when your argument is flawed - and I won't be aggressive towards you. What do you care anyway? You said you are agnostic at best.

The Orthodox and the Catholic disagreed over the Filioque and fought battles to gain political and commercial dominance. The Catholics and the Protestants disagreed and fought wars over “faith” versus “works”, transubstantiation and predestination. And everyone ganged up against the Anabaptist who practised adult baptism, but like the Arians, they were/are all Christians. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

He said Jesus was subordinate to God. That is not a God. Voting that Jesus is equal to God is making him a God. These aren't semantics.

And, pray tell, what coercive state power did Christian missionaries have, during Christianity’s incipient centuries, to extort this “fine treasure” or to expropriate the “choice real estate”? Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Using your own words the Turkish Empire. That's some pretty dishy real estate.

Before the rise of Mohammed, most of those lands belonged to the Romans by right of conquest. Byzantium called on Western Europe to aid them in dispossessing of the Islamic intruders. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

By the first Crusade the Roman Empire was gone. What country or territory of the Western European nations was attacked and by whom to validate the Crusades. No, the Crusaders attacked a culture and religion. They had a jehad against the Muslims. Mind you, I'm not a big fan of either group or their Gods.

Where do you place Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, who killed hundreds of millions of innocents? What of the tens of thousands captured and executed by the Aztecs? Originally Posted by I B Hankering

And these mother fuckers, according to Christianity, can go to heaven along with the people they killed. It's either a cruel joke or grown up Santa Clauseism.

Historical, Islamic states: the Umayyad, the Almoravid, the Abbasid, the Mamluk, the Seljuq empire and the Ottomans. The Crusades were launched against the Turks.

Historical, Islamic states: the Umayyad, the Almoravid, the Abbasid, the Mamluk, the Seljuq empire and the Ottomans. The Crusades were launched against the Turks. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

For their religion, culture and stopping the flow of dollars back to Rome. So what you're saying is that one day the Muslims attacked the Christian nation of Turkey and won setting up Muslim theocracies / or monarchies supported by the divine right to rule, and that the Christian Crusaders returned fire. Right?

Here I always thought the Crusades were started when the Christians tried to recapture Jerusalem because the now Muslim rulers made it hard on Christians to make their pilgrimages.

How do Japan’s attacks against the Allies in December 1941 differ significantly from the Seljuq Turk attacks against Byzantium, and its allies, in the 11th century? Originally Posted by I B Hankering

That wasn't a jehad. It was a war started for territory and economic needs.

The Crusades began with Christians trying to "recapture" Jerusalem because Christendom thought, no felt, Jerusalem was their Holy Ground.

What silly logic OH uses, like Jesus, the Apostles, and Paul
had some real estate and treasure from the Orient grab
as there goal in life. Originally Posted by bojulay

We've been though this. Read what I said. You either can't read well or you are as poor at trying to twist others' words as you are at reading comprehension.

It is clear from reading the Gospels that they believed what they were preaching, or they were telling and promoting a known lie. Originally Posted by bojulay

I thought I made it perfectly clear that I don't believe the New Testament. I do not believe the Christian translations of the Bible are valid translations. I do not believe Jesus is a God. Period. The End. He never said he was a God. Again, period.

Again I ask the question. Who would be willing to suffer and die for a known lie? Originally Posted by bojulay

They were zealots - true believers. I'm not a true believer in Christianity. I am a true believer in Liberty and would be willing to die for that. It's all in what you believe and care about. They had their passions; I have mine.

ne thing I think you will find that all Martyrs have in common.

They all fully believe in the cause and claims they are dying for. Originally Posted by bojulay

Very true.

Also, If it's known that Yussip is Jewish, calling him a golem is anti-Semitic.

Anyone that is not Jewish. I would have thought that was obvious.

You can look up all the birth statistics and dis the more conservative sects for having many children all you want. Bottom line, Israel will remain a Jewish State. Maybe if the Palestines stop blowing up shit Israel will stop penalizing them. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

You can't just declare that Israel will remain a Jewish State. Your self-image notwithstanding, you are not omnipotent.

So, as they say in academia: "Don't fight the hypothetical".

Which brings us back to the question - What if the Palestinian population DOES outstrip the Jewish population 20-30 years down the road?

How does Israel remain Jewish state THEN? Mass deportations of Palestinians once the numbers start to get too close?

You can't just declare that Israel will remain a Jewish State. Your self-image notwithstanding, you are not omnipotent.

So, as they say in academia: "Don't fight the hypothetical".

Which brings us back to the question - What if the Palestinian population DOES outstrip the Jewish population 20-30 years down the road?

How does Israel remain Jewish state THEN? Mass deportations of Palestinians once the numbers start to get too close? Originally Posted by ExNYer

Holy moly, ExNYer, have you seen the code in your post? YOW!

But more directly, Israel's Knesset is as secular as it can get considering. I altruistically think they will remain a democracy into the future. Too much is at stake for them to abandon that. I also hope that the hawkish wingnuts in the Knesset are able to be "gently" pushed aside in the years to come.

I personally believe in the establishment of an independent Palestine, but that doesn't mean that the Muslim population of Israel won't eventually outnumber the Jewish population of Israel. (Of course, with the way those crazy kids keep blowing themselves up, you never know...)

But what if it does? Then I guess we'll be in for interesting times. Right now it's conjecture. It's like speculating what the Republicans are going to do when they find themselves outnumbered by Democrats ...

Ohhh ... well I guess we know the answer to that question.

You are giving me an inferiority complex, IBS!

I suppose calling you a redneck is a bigger insult than you calling me a:

"turd-tongued golem"
"miserable piece of animated shit and piss"
"miserable golem fuck"
"piece of animated shit"

You are a walking LEGO system of interchangeable vulgarity. I don't think you're a craps player (no pun intended) because if you were, you'd know there are only so many combinations possible. I think you've managed to use them all in the past couple of weeks.

I've been called worse by bigger redneck crackers than you. Just not in 40 years!

GLAD I'M NOT MUSLIM! WOOOO DOGGIES!

IBSyndrome, I know you have a lot of issues with inferiority, ignorance and bigotry, but this is America, boy. Please try your best not to embarrass yourself any further with your tedious little vulgarities.

I'd prefer not to have to ask you again. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You're an ignorant, amalgamation of animated piss and shit, Assup the jackass. You know absolutely nothing since golems, such as yourself, are incapable of thought or intelligence. You came into this forum throwing piss and shit, and now you're being served in kind, jackass.

He said Jesus was subordinate to God. That is not a God. Voting that Jesus is equal to God is making him a God. These aren't semantics. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

The Arians were Christians. For the most part, most of the Germanic tribes that migrated into an through Western Europe were Arians, and they waged war against the Roman Empire for several centuries before they were defeated by Byzantium.

Using your own words the Turkish Empire. That's some pretty dishy real estate. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

You didn’t answer the question: what coercive state power did Christian missionaries have, during Christianity’s incipient centuries, to extort this “fine treasure” or to expropriate the “choice real estate”? Christianity predates any Turkish empire in Anatolia by nearly a millennium.

By the first Crusade the Roman Empire was gone. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

No. No it wasn’t.

What country or territory of the Western European nations was attacked and by whom to validate the Crusades. No, the Crusaders attacked a culture and religion. They had a jehad against the Muslims. Mind you, I'm not a big fan of either group or their Gods. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

The Seljuk Empire was an empire. The kingdoms of Western Europe were beckoned by Byzantium, as allies (like great Britain sought U.S. military aid against Germany during WWII), to help throw out the Turkish invaders.

And these mother fuckers, according to Christianity, can go to heaven along with the people they killed. It's either a cruel joke or grown up Santa Clauseism. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Lenin, Stalin and Mao were atheistic communists who have demonstrated Christians – or Islam – have no monopoly on persecution and death.

For their religion, culture and stopping the flow of dollars back to Rome. So what you're saying is that one day the Muslims attacked the Christian nation of Turkey and won setting up Muslim theocracies / or monarchies supported by the divine right to rule, and that the Christian Crusaders returned fire. Right? Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

“Turkey” – derived from “Turks” – was never a Christian Empire. However, Rome and Byzantium were Christian Empires, and the geographic region which is modern day Turkey – Anatolia – once belonged to the Roman and subsequently to the Byzantium Empire before it was conquered by the Turks.

Here I always thought the Crusades were started when the Christians tried to recapture Jerusalem because the now Muslim rulers made it hard on Christians to make their pilgrimages. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

The key word is “recapture”.

That wasn't a jehad. It was a war started for territory and economic needs. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Actually, the military expansionism of both Islam and Imperial Japan was for territory and booty.

The Crusades began with Christians trying to "recapture" Jerusalem because Christendom thought, no felt, Jerusalem was their Holy Ground. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Again, the key word is “recapture”.

I find it incredibly telling that you lump "Islam" and "Imperial Japan" into the same category, IBS.

No wonder you can't tell the difference between ethnicity, race and nationality.

You don't know the difference.

And I never came in here hurling racial or ethnic epithets. You do so incessantly. Again, you reveal your lack of upbringing and education.

Sorry goober. That's the fact. Shame on you.

I find it incredibly telling that you lump "Islam" and "Imperial Japan" into the same category, IBS.

No wonder you can't tell the difference between ethnicity, race and nationality.

You don't know the difference.

And I never came in here hurling racial or ethnic epithets. You do so incessantly. Again, you reveal your lack of upbringing and education.

Sorry goober. That's the fact. Shame on you. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You're a lying, ignorant, amalgamation of animated piss and shit, Assup the jackass. You know absolutely nothing since golems, such as yourself, are incapable of thought or intelligence. You came into this forum throwing piss and shit, and now you're being served in kind, jackass.

Naw, you're over the edge. I think you're closing in on a two-week binge now.

You're trying to justify your childish Tourette-like outbursts by saying its payback? HA! That's like trying to deny your seething hatred for all things non-Christian.

More OH rebuttal that is mostly babble, what else is new.

I'm still waiting for the new testament scriptures that call
for the persecution and killing of non Christians.

Sense OH has called Christianity the scourge of mankind.

What she fails to see like so many others is that it's the other
way around, mans own actions wrongly called Christian have
been the scourge of Christianity.

If ones actions do not line up with the teaching how can they be called the same.

If I were a terrorist and went and hijacked an airplane would United Airlines
then be considered a terrorist organisation? Just using your logic again.

How silly to say you have nothing against Jesus and think Paul was evil.
All of his preaching was about Christ and in agreement with the other Apostles.