The body language of a date

I had been enjoying a lovely evening at a romantic bar in New York with a gentlemen of whom I am greatly enamored. We were really enjoying making googly eyes at each other while drinking at the bar, to the great amusement of our charming bartender. Sometimes it's nice to be shamelessly romantic. Once dinner had begun an I excused myself to the washroom, and in my absence the bartender came over and complimented my gentlemen friend on the chemistry we shared.

I have to admit loving these spontaneous compliments - it's nice to know I don't scream professional from across the room even when there's a glaring age difference. I have been asked if we were on a Honeymoon by a stewardess, and a few times received congratulations on being newly weds. Always worth a giggle of delight. On the other hand, I've also had my dates complimented on having such a charming daughter. So the romantic inclination doesn't always ring through in our shared body language.

While at said romantic dinner, I saw another couple enter, with an obvious age difference. I spotted her as a pro immediately. He was likely in his sixties and didn't seem young in spirit or care much for his appearance - not to say he was unattractive or didn't care, but certainly didn't strike me as the "young at heart" sort of guy or the devilish charmer that would easily attract younger women. She was dressed in a very alluring outfit, and her eyes were dead even when she smiled.

I seemed to catch her eye immediately, she gave me a very forward though stone faced acknowledgment of my existence. I wondered if she pegged me the same way. We were seated facing each other so continuing to observe without being obvious was pretty easy, and I soon didn't know what conclusion she had reached. Every time I burst into laughter, she gave me an annoyed look, then let her eyes settle on the floor. Each time I walked by her eyes trailed me, narrowing to slits. I had the distinct feeling she disliked me. My date and I were quite fascinated by her body language, trying to figure out exactly what was going though her mind, and her date seemed absolutely oblivious to anything but the two of them. I found myself thinking, she's a pro, but not very good. I would feel very odd about bedding a woman that was so disinterested and had to force every smile and concentrate on seeming interested. I wondered if the gentlemen felt self conscious based on the subtleties of her behavior. There was no suspension of disbelief offered.

So I have to ask the gentlemen: Have you ever been on a date with a lady where the little things in her body language turned you off, even though nothing overt was wrong? Would you politely excuse yourself from the rest of the evening or venture forward?

I imagine most would venture forward, certainly I can remember being on first dates where there was no immediate sense of comfort in his presence, not the warmth of friendship or the click of romance. There must have been body language I couldn't consciously control, and they didn't cancel. I imagine there are instances where it's simpler to go through with the date and not repeat then it is to start the awkward conversation of wanting to end early.

I know you are posing the question towards the gentlemen, but here I am, with my two cents! Hope you don't mind, my lovely lass.
When I read your thoughtful post what came to mind was simply being present. How do two people connect when they are both off in their own worlds, not truly engaged in mind, body, spirit or connected to their environment? I think giving a person or situation your complete attention allows for the chemistry of attraction to flourish. How boring to simply go through the motions.
As far as the vibes you got from the woman: I agree with Chris Rock. The reason women don't rule the world is because most women are insecure and hate attractive, confident women on site. It's a joke. I go out of my way, like you do, to smile and engage with other women, and most simply give me a 'drop dead' glare. I know that the ones who return my friendly kindess are comfortable with themselves. Like everything else, it's about skimming the cream off the top!

So I have to ask the gentlemen: Have you ever been on a date with a lady where the little things in her body language turned you off, even though nothing overt was wrong? Would you politely excuse yourself from the rest of the evening or venture forward? Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

If it was along the lines that there was not a major click or chemistry then I imagine I would continue with the date and then not repeat. One can still have a good time and by the time a gent figures it out it is likely long enough into the date that cutting it short can be problematic.

A corollary that I think would also be interesting is what if the body language was different than it had been in the past? little things that did not happen. Would that be something that would be chalked up to an off night or to more than that?

So I have to ask the gentlemen: Have you ever been on a date with a lady where the little things in her body language turned you off, even though nothing overt was wrong? Would you politely excuse yourself from the rest of the evening or venture forward?

. Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

I always give them the benifit of the doubt. My weenie prefers me wait until I can put my finger on the problem.

I do leave early if my weiner becomes disintrested, but thats after the clothes have been shed and all else fails. I hate for my dates to leave without some good loving. But thats just me, I'm selfless like that.

A woman's body language definitely affects me. It affects me enough that in civie life, I have ended dates on the spot.

In civie life I have little difficulty getting dates. In some respects, this may be a good thing; but it also makes me more willing to walk, and more liable to walk quickly, than perhaps I would otherwise be. I am incredibly patient -- patient to a fault; but not particularly tolerant in cases where the woman hasn't already established a positive track record with me. The positive track record buys her tolerance.

Unless I'm dealing with a really superb actress or a yogi; I can usually tell within a couple of minutes if a woman has any real interest in me. Sometimes I can tell within a couple of seconds.

Life is short. Why waste an evening of it in the company of someone that you know is not enjoying your company?

So in civie life the answer has always been simple for me -- I let ladies know during the first date if there won't be a second. I am not the sort of cruel bastard who makes women wait by the phone for a call that never comes; although I did do that once by accident. But it was truly an accident that I corrected as soon as I was aware.

So, yes -- body language affects me, and in civie life I have typically acted on it immediately, especially early in a relationship when the lady hasn't built much of a positive track record and my own investments are modest.

In the hobby the call is more difficult because the circumstances are more complex. If we exclude from the equation those providers whose finances would be utterly unaffected by a lack of dates or donate their providing income to charity (hey, I'm sure some exist!); most providers are in it for the money to some degree. That is not a BAD thing, it is just a fact of reality.

So there is a possibility of taking a woman out to dinner who might really need the money, quite literally, to keep her electricity turned on for her kids or something.

I know this circumstance sounds crazy; but I have encountered it myself and it presents a more difficult profile.

As long as her body language is tolerable to me, I'll let the date proceed. Otherwise, I'll walk but will leave her with all the money. The money is of no consequence compared to how I'd feel about myself for having sex with her. At that point it becomes a pay-off: I'm paying her off to leave me alone.

As far as the vibes you got from the woman: I agree with Chris Rock. The reason women don't rule the world is because most women are insecure and hate attractive, confident women on site. It's a joke. I go out of my way, like you do, to smile and engage with other women, and most simply give me a 'drop dead' glare. I know that the ones who return my friendly kindess are comfortable with themselves. Like everything else, it's about skimming the cream off the top! Originally Posted by ClairJordan

I totally disagree with the Chris Rock thing, though I'm hearing it here for the first time. Sounds like a misogynist stereotype which, though in the form of a joke, is designed to be self-fulfilling and keep women down. When I worked as a dancer in a gentlemen's club during college, men would sometimes ask me with eager, expectant smirks who I didn't like or thought was a "bitch." In reality, we all got along pretty well together despite working in an environment where we naturally had to compete against each other to our money. But I think guys who were eager to hear about drama or gossip had this desire to feel superior to women whom they perceived as shallow, catty and mean. That hasn't been my experience at all in interacting with women, generally.

Of course, we're no better or friendlier than guys (but I'd argue no worse, either), as evidenced by Lauren's story. I would think in that situation I'd feel some sort of camaraderie with a fellow working girl. Sounds like she doesn't like what she does and felt resentment toward you for enjoying yourself... a common sentiment among unhappy people, regardless of gender or occupation.

I do leave early if my weiner becomes disintrested Originally Posted by WTF

And as I hear it...finish early the rest of the time.

I totally disagree with the Chris Rock thing, though I'm hearing it here for the first time. Sounds like a misogynist stereotype which, though in the form of a joke, is designed to be self-fulfilling and keep women down. Originally Posted by Natalie

I see how you can form this opinion, however, as stated above, it's clearly true to me. I may get perplexed looks from men, but never hateful ones.

During my feminist counseling classes the professors made a very strong effort to delineate that women have been a powerful force in the oppression of other women. There was a strong belief that we are our own worst enemies. Even when granted equal rights the judgments from other women (especially regarding women who choose to be freely sexual) are harsh enough to cause their fellow females to pull back, as hearing it from the same gender is far more jarring than the opposite sex. They had all kinds of case studies from all kinds of time periods, none of which I remember and alas none of which I kept once I was done my schooling.

When I worked as a dancer in a gentlemen's club during college, men would sometimes ask me with eager, expectant smirks who I didn't like or thought was a "bitch." In reality, we all got along pretty well together despite working in an environment where we naturally had to compete against each other to our money.

My experience dancing was quite different, and while working with several strip clubs through Ontario on the business end (not as a dancer), I also so a lot of cruelty between the women. Hell even on the boards there's a lot of women being abusive of each other. There is a possiblity worked in a club where they were highly particular in the women they hired, wanting to keep an environment where managers and owners didn't want to pull their own hair out.

Sounds like she doesn't like what she does and felt resentment toward you for enjoying yourself... a common sentiment among unhappy people, regardless of gender or occupation.

Actaually that's probably perfectly true - it's easier to notice the daggers in a womans eyes as they jump out at me, then it is the friendlier looks.

I know you are posing the question towards the gentlemen, but here I am, with my two cents! Hope you don't mind, my lovely lass. Originally Posted by ClairJordan

Oh delicious Clair, when have I ever minded your ass?

As far as the vibes you got from the woman: I agree with Chris Rock. The reason women don't rule the world is because most women are insecure and hate attractive, confident women on site. It's a joke. I go out of my way, like you do, to smile and engage with other women, and most simply give me a 'drop dead' glare. Originally Posted by ClairJordan

I think you're right. Though there is no shortage of women who love themselves, but there is a significant group of women who are quick to hate. A few nights ago I had a goth day yet again - you witnessed the outfit once. I went to an Italian place with my date and some women were admiring, some were curious, a great deal hardly looked at me - but some looked like they wanted to beat me with their stilettos. I don't understand the anger. Excuse me for having fun and doing exactly as I want to.

At this romantic dinner date I was also dressed a little unusual. I had a cherry patterned dressed with an A lined skirt that was thematic in that it could pass for a 1940's pinup style.

I've always loved alternative fashion, and if the man is fearless enough to let me indulge, I'm most eager to get creative with what I'm wearing. It's those days that I get the "I hope you die" looks from women. When I first started getting into outfit design it was a huge deterrent - I felt humiliated by their vicious stares. I have since learned to enjoy my wardrobe despite them, but am still confounded by the experience.

I found myself thinking, she's a pro, but not very good. I would feel very odd about bedding a woman that was so disinterested and had to force every smile and concentrate on seeming interested. I wondered if the gentlemen felt self conscious based on the subtleties of her behavior. There was no suspension of disbelief offered. Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

So tell us, what does Charlestudor look like?


*Sorry Charles, it was just too hard not to. (That's what she said)

Sounds like a misogynist stereotype which, though in the form of a joke, is designed to be self-fulfilling and keep women down. . Originally Posted by Natalie

So you think Chris Rock is not really a comedian but a undercover misogynist?

And as I hear it...finish early the rest of the time. Originally Posted by Rudyard K

What? Thats a bad thing?

I believe what you ladies are noticing is younger generational trait of low self esteem. I believe it most prevalent in the 20 -27 year old range. I read a case study of the 17-20 generation and in the article mentioned a large difference of self esteem attitudes between the two groups. Quite interesting to tag an emotion as an attitude, but that is another study.

The lack of face-to-face communication fuels a tremendous amount of 'attitude', as it is an easy defense when inadequacy rules your psyche. Repeated physical/ emotional interaction does wonders for self esteem.

I remeber how life changing getting laid was for me. I started dressing up and started a path of accomplishment that I've never looked back. All that to say, people need to screw more!!!! and we would be too happy to get mad!!
Amen

My experience dancing was quite different, and while working with several strip clubs through Ontario on the business end (not as a dancer), I also so a lot of cruelty between the women. Hell even on the boards there's a lot of women being abusive of each other. Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

I guess I haven't seen any of that, at least not lately. It could be that I'm naive about it too, though. On this board in particular, I've probably seen more hostility between the guys than anything else, not to open a can of worms here. It could just be that I'm pretty blissfully ignorant of women giving me dirty looks or behaving with hostility toward me, if they do. I guess I also tend to make more of an effort in establishing good relationships with women because of this idea (be it stereotype or reality) that we're all either trained or naturally inclined to hate each other. So if I'm in a small, mixed-sex group, I try to immediately quell the possibility of that surfacing by being extra friendly with women as we're all getting to know each other. As far as random nasty glances though, I can't remember the last time that happened to me. I'm sorry to hear that people behave that way, regardless of circumstance! Sounds like some seriously low self-esteem.

To the original question, which I know was directed to the gents and not me, I usually let the man lead the way in terms of body language and what he's comfortable with. Sometimes I try to carry myself as if it's more of a friendly business lunch or something, for the purpose of discretion. I'm naturally a very affectionate and physical person, but I know some people either can't be affectionate in public or don't feel it's natural or comfortable until they've had more time to warm up to a new person.

Not even smiling or laughing though? Sounds like they weren't a match at all.

, I've probably seen more hostility between the guys than anything else, not to open a can of worms here.



. Originally Posted by Natalie

A can of worms has a higher IQ than some of our male posters! LOL
It is in the male nature to talk shit. Probably because we have ruled the world for so damn long.

,
Not even smiling or laughing though? Sounds like they weren't a match at all. Originally Posted by Natalie

I did not want to open this can of worms but really from what Lauren posted we have no way of knowing what was going on between those two. The woman could have been his daughter and going through a divorce, who knows. We guys don't pay much attention to those kinda things nor does a lil chit talking bother us.

I did not want to open this can of worms but really from what Lauren posted we have no way of knowing what was going on between those two. The woman could have been his daughter and going through a divorce, who knows. We guys don't pay much attention to those kinda things nor does a lil chit talking bother us. Originally Posted by WTF

Very true! I wonder if it was a totally different situation between them.

Maybe levels of competition/hostility are the same among genders but women are more sensitive to it?