- I B Hankering
- 05-31-2016, 11:13 AM
- Jackie S
- 05-31-2016, 01:42 PM
Great video!! One of the few sea battles where two fleets of full class Battleships slugged it out, and showed that it was just as important for a Capitol Ship to absorb punishment as well as dish it out.
The results at Juland lead the way to great improvements in not only ships, but tactics, during the period between the wars.
Of course, in the years to come, as Aviation made great strides, and Aircraft Carriers became the major Capitol Investment, the true Battleship became more of a target than a threat.
That is, until the Navies figured out they could stack countless anti-aircraft guns on them, which made them great protectors of the Fleet.
Something lost on the British, as proved by the sinking of the Prince of Wales and Renown by Japanese Aircraft.
The results at Juland lead the way to great improvements in not only ships, but tactics, during the period between the wars.
Of course, in the years to come, as Aviation made great strides, and Aircraft Carriers became the major Capitol Investment, the true Battleship became more of a target than a threat.
That is, until the Navies figured out they could stack countless anti-aircraft guns on them, which made them great protectors of the Fleet.
Something lost on the British, as proved by the sinking of the Prince of Wales and Renown by Japanese Aircraft.
- I B Hankering
- 05-31-2016, 06:02 PM
May 30, 1916, marked the 100th day of the battle for Verdun; thus, many are observing another centennial.
- The_Waco_Kid
- 05-31-2016, 06:03 PM
excellent post! the battle of Jutland is a classic of old school and some new school naval tactics. it was the last major battleship only engagement ever fought.
the tactic of crossing the T came about with the advent of the modern dread-naught. before modern movable gun turrets, old naval ships had to sail broadside to each other to engage their guns. not anymore.
given the advances in just twenty years in modern battleships, a pure engagement would have been impressive.
air power of course changed all that.
Billy Mitchell changed it all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mitchell
Project B: Anti-ship bombing demonstration
In February 1921, at the urging of Mitchell, who was anxious to test his theories of destruction of ships by aerial bombing, Secretary of War Newton Baker and Secretary of the Navy Josephus Daniels agreed to a series of joint Army-Navy exercises, known as Project B, to be held that summer in which surplus or captured ships could be used as targets.
The wreck of the Indiana in the shallow waters of the Chesapeake Bay. In the background the remains of San Marcos are visible.
Mitchell was concerned that the building of dreadnoughts was taking precious defense dollars away from military aviation. He was convinced that a force of anti-shipping airplanes could defend a coastline with more economy than a combination of coastal guns and naval vessels. A thousand bombers could be built at the same cost as one battleship, and could sink that battleship.[16] Mitchell infuriated the Navy by claiming he could sink ships "under war conditions", and boasted he could prove it if he were permitted to bomb captured German battleships.
The Navy reluctantly agreed to the demonstration after news leaked of its own tests. To counter Mitchell, the Navy had sunk the old battleship Indiana near Tangier Island, Virginia, on November 1, 1920, using its own airplanes. Daniels had hoped to squelch Mitchell by releasing a report on the results written by Captain William D. Leahy stating that, "The entire experiment pointed to the improbability of a modern battleship being either destroyed or completely put out of action by aerial bombs." When the New-York Tribune revealed that the Navy's "tests" were done with dummy sand bombs and that the ship was actually sunk using high explosives placed on the ship, Congress introduced two resolutions urging new tests and backed the Navy into a corner.[17]
In the arrangements for the new tests, there was to be a news blackout until all data had been analyzed at which point only the official news report would be released; Mitchell felt that the Navy was going to bury the results. The Chief of the Air Corps attempted to have Mitchell dismissed a week before the tests began, reacting to Navy complaints about Mitchell's criticisms, but the new Secretary of War John W. Weeks backed down when it became apparent that Mitchell had widespread public and media support.[18]
the tactic of crossing the T came about with the advent of the modern dread-naught. before modern movable gun turrets, old naval ships had to sail broadside to each other to engage their guns. not anymore.
given the advances in just twenty years in modern battleships, a pure engagement would have been impressive.
air power of course changed all that.
Billy Mitchell changed it all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mitchell
Project B: Anti-ship bombing demonstration
In February 1921, at the urging of Mitchell, who was anxious to test his theories of destruction of ships by aerial bombing, Secretary of War Newton Baker and Secretary of the Navy Josephus Daniels agreed to a series of joint Army-Navy exercises, known as Project B, to be held that summer in which surplus or captured ships could be used as targets.
The wreck of the Indiana in the shallow waters of the Chesapeake Bay. In the background the remains of San Marcos are visible.
Mitchell was concerned that the building of dreadnoughts was taking precious defense dollars away from military aviation. He was convinced that a force of anti-shipping airplanes could defend a coastline with more economy than a combination of coastal guns and naval vessels. A thousand bombers could be built at the same cost as one battleship, and could sink that battleship.[16] Mitchell infuriated the Navy by claiming he could sink ships "under war conditions", and boasted he could prove it if he were permitted to bomb captured German battleships.
The Navy reluctantly agreed to the demonstration after news leaked of its own tests. To counter Mitchell, the Navy had sunk the old battleship Indiana near Tangier Island, Virginia, on November 1, 1920, using its own airplanes. Daniels had hoped to squelch Mitchell by releasing a report on the results written by Captain William D. Leahy stating that, "The entire experiment pointed to the improbability of a modern battleship being either destroyed or completely put out of action by aerial bombs." When the New-York Tribune revealed that the Navy's "tests" were done with dummy sand bombs and that the ship was actually sunk using high explosives placed on the ship, Congress introduced two resolutions urging new tests and backed the Navy into a corner.[17]
In the arrangements for the new tests, there was to be a news blackout until all data had been analyzed at which point only the official news report would be released; Mitchell felt that the Navy was going to bury the results. The Chief of the Air Corps attempted to have Mitchell dismissed a week before the tests began, reacting to Navy complaints about Mitchell's criticisms, but the new Secretary of War John W. Weeks backed down when it became apparent that Mitchell had widespread public and media support.[18]
- I B Hankering
- 05-31-2016, 06:22 PM
Great video!! One of the few sea battles where two fleets of full class Battleships slugged it out, and showed that it was just as important for a Capitol Ship to absorb punishment as well as dish it out.+1
The results at Juland lead the way to great improvements in not only ships, but tactics, during the period between the wars.
Of course, in the years to come, as Aviation made great strides, and Aircraft Carriers became the major Capitol Investment, the true Battleship became more of a target than a threat.
That is, until the Navies figured out they could stack countless anti-aircraft guns on them, which made them great protectors of the Fleet.
Something lost on the British, as proved by the sinking of the Prince of Wales and Renown by Japanese Aircraft. Originally Posted by Jackie S
excellent post! the battle of Jutland is a classic of old school and some new school naval tactics. it was the last major battleship only engagement ever fought.+1
the tactic of crossing the T came about with the advent of the modern dread-naught. before modern movable gun turrets, old naval ships had to sail broadside to each other to engage their guns. not anymore.
given the advances in just twenty years in modern battleships, a pure engagement would have been impressive.
air power of course changed all that.
Billy Mitchell changed it all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mitchell
Project B: Anti-ship bombing demonstration
In February 1921, at the urging of Mitchell, who was anxious to test his theories of destruction of ships by aerial bombing, Secretary of War Newton Baker and Secretary of the Navy Josephus Daniels agreed to a series of joint Army-Navy exercises, known as Project B, to be held that summer in which surplus or captured ships could be used as targets.
The wreck of the Indiana in the shallow waters of the Chesapeake Bay. In the background the remains of San Marcos are visible.
Mitchell was concerned that the building of dreadnoughts was taking precious defense dollars away from military aviation. He was convinced that a force of anti-shipping airplanes could defend a coastline with more economy than a combination of coastal guns and naval vessels. A thousand bombers could be built at the same cost as one battleship, and could sink that battleship.[16] Mitchell infuriated the Navy by claiming he could sink ships "under war conditions", and boasted he could prove it if he were permitted to bomb captured German battleships.
The Navy reluctantly agreed to the demonstration after news leaked of its own tests. To counter Mitchell, the Navy had sunk the old battleship Indiana near Tangier Island, Virginia, on November 1, 1920, using its own airplanes. Daniels had hoped to squelch Mitchell by releasing a report on the results written by Captain William D. Leahy stating that, "The entire experiment pointed to the improbability of a modern battleship being either destroyed or completely put out of action by aerial bombs." When the New-York Tribune revealed that the Navy's "tests" were done with dummy sand bombs and that the ship was actually sunk using high explosives placed on the ship, Congress introduced two resolutions urging new tests and backed the Navy into a corner.[17]
In the arrangements for the new tests, there was to be a news blackout until all data had been analyzed at which point only the official news report would be released; Mitchell felt that the Navy was going to bury the results. The Chief of the Air Corps attempted to have Mitchell dismissed a week before the tests began, reacting to Navy complaints about Mitchell's criticisms, but the new Secretary of War John W. Weeks backed down when it became apparent that Mitchell had widespread public and media support.[18] Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid
In his book, Masters Of The Air: America’s Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany, Donald L. Miller writes about how the outspoken military aviation pioneer Brigadier General William "Billy" Mitchell irritated the Army's upper echelon, i.e., General of the Armies John "Black Jack" Pershing, etc., to such a degree that in 1925 Mitchell was removed as Assistant Chief of the Air Service and assigned duties in San Antonio where he was given an office that shared a common wall with an open latrine.
- IIFFOFRDB
- 05-31-2016, 06:38 PM
Do one a week!
