Value: What is it?

Many folks have made some really great observations in another thread here. I decided to split out this topic so I can look at it as a separate topic.

DISCLAMERS:
1. I am NOT recommending anyone charge a specific price.
2. The numbers used are for illustration only and may or may not be real world numbers
3. I am NOT saying anyone is over/underpriced. It’s the concepts I am interested in and how they may apply to the hobby.
4. I have spent 35 years in sales and marketing in many different fields. The marketing I discuss here DOES apply to the Hobby. It’s how to understand and apply them that is tough. There are many exceptions, I know.

I understand this is all very subjective and highly personal. Please take it as a broad over view, not personal.

Many may know this stuff but some of the newer ones may not have figured it out yet. Much of this is for new ladies but a lot can be applied to existing, established ones as well. I know there is much more that can be offered but only so much typing I can do. J

Within a given market segment, there is a range of prices that is the "sweet spot". The size or range of that those prices can be small or large. It varies depending on many factors. Changing prices within that range will have little impact. Example: By observation, the mid range providers seem to charge between $X to $Y. Someone who charges $Y and drops to $Y-10 will see little impact on the volume of customers. There may be a few clients who simply cannot afford $Y who might give it a try at a lower price but overall, little impact. The same for someone who goes to X+10. Again, a few clients on the fence price wise but over all little impact. NOTE: Rising prices, even a little in a tough market CAN have a big negative impact so be very careful. There are some price points that have an effect. EX: $190 v $200. I doubt the $10 really makes a huge difference but that 1 instead of a 2 does. That’s why so many stores price at .99 or .95.

If you move outside that range, even by a little, you will see a drop in business from your target market. Dropping below the range will move you to a lower price market with different customers and demands. EX: Dropping from $200 to $175 moves you out of the mid market into a lower priced market. You will still get customers but now you’re competing with the $100 providers and many of the $200 customers will wonder why you’re so cheap. At $200, you’re at the lower end of the mid market and that can give you a competitive advantage v a disadvantage at $150. Raising your price may push you into a different market segment that you are not prepaired for. There are reasons why some women get what they charge. Do you really understand what it takes and can deliver in that market?

Within your market sweet spot, the only time price becomes the major factor is if 2 products are perceived as being the same. That’s why people will drive around to find the cheapest gas price, even if it’s only a cent or 2.

So, if, within that range, if price is not the #1 driving factor, what is? Value. It is simplest terms, Value is how much you’re getting for your money. If you see 2 different sizes of coke at the same price, then the bigger one is clearly a better value. Easy with a tangible product. But, we are taking about a very personal, subjective, intangible product. How do we determine value? There are 3 broad factors:

1. Price
2. The Product or Service offered
3. Execution

Price is simplest. If there is no other difference, the lower price will be the better value. As there are not 2 ladies alike, it’s harder to compare so price is actually less of an issue in broad terms within the sweet spot for your market. This helps defines what market segment you may appeal to.

Product/Service- This is the broadest and most subjective category. Appearance, specific actions, personality, appeal, body type, execution, etc. Some of this you can control such as what services you offer and possibility how well you deliver these services. Some you have little control over such as body type. If you’re a spinner and the guy wants a BBW, there is little you can do to get that customer. Within a given price range, this will be the category that gets a customer’s attention.

Execution- In many ways, this is the easiest to control and the most likely to cost or retain your customers. This category includes things like: scheduling, ease of contact, reliability, consistency, accurate and appealing advertising, in-call location, etc. These are the things that you use to execute your business. This is the category most likely to cost or retain your customers. (Assuming you provide an acceptable product)

The three are interrelated. EX: You can have a great price and product, but if you’re horrible at execution, you will have a hard time. If your product offering is poor, does it really matter what you price and service level are? If your price is too far outside the sweet spot, your desired customer won’t even look at you. Within limits, you can offset being bad at one with being really good at others. EX: An L1/L2 provider may be so so at that service, but her price and availablily are so good, she will get customers anyway. She may have to work a lot harder/longer but she can get customers because her overall value is high.

For different people, each of these may have a different level of impact. It helps if you can define what market you most want to appeal to.

“Bang for the Buck”- These guys that are not very interested in a connection, they want the product and don’t care about much else. Often, they want it as cheap as possible. Price is a driving factor for them. This tends to also be a high volume/lower price market with less “loyalty” likely. The extreme end of this group will be the guys who call on short notice, get in, get it done, and move on. They will be less concerned with how the provider feels and more focused on themselves.

The “Connection” type- These guys want to develop some level of connection/relationship with their selection. They tend to want more time and individualized service. They may be willing to pay more per call but may be a lower volume. They tend to find one or a few favorites and stick with them most of the time. They will also place more value on pleasing the provider. The extreme end of this segment would be the Sugar Daddy.

I know these are much generalized and I make no judgment about either. WALDT, yes? I am sure many can define other “types. I just use these as 2 different ends of the market. Most likely, you will have a mix of these. I left out the fetish types because I just don’t know what drives them other than the specific offering.

All are affected to some level by your execution of service.
· How easy are you to contact?
· Do you return calls?
· Are your ads/websites complete, up to date, with accurate, current pictures?
· Are you dependable? If you must break an appointment, do you have an established plan for encouraging that customer to give you another chance? Knowing in advance what to say or do when things don’t happen as planed takes a lot of the emotion out of it and allows you to respond constantly and fairly. Ex: If you NS/NC or cancel at the last minute you will offer an extra 30 minutes or a discount on the next visit.
· Do you deliver what you advertise? Do you really understand terms like GFE or PSE? Do you say upfront what you will not do? Are some services YMMV? Only available specific hours or days?Prefered contact method and normal response time?
· Is your in-call safe and appealing?

No matter how good your price is or your product selection, if a guy cannot get into see you, does not get what is advertised or expected, has to deal with multiple NC/NS, etc most will move on to someone else.

My suggestion for the new providers and even many of the established ones is to define in broad terms, what your ideal customer is and that you appeal to. Be real here. If you’re a body type or personality that will not appeal to a specific type of customer, don’t waste time and effort on them. Take them if they come along, but don’t waste time going for the low percentage.

Once you have a broad idea of your customer base, focus your marketing on that segment. Don’t exclude the overall market, but make sure you do everything you can to appeal to the guys you want to see. If you’re at the higher end of the price points for your market segment, this is critical. Remember, you’re trying to increase your value so you stand out from the rest. Make sure you offer the services your target market wants. Give guys a reason to consider you over the others. If you’re just starting out, be willing to work for less until you establish a good reputation then adjust your prices slowly and in small steps until you find that balance of price/volume.

Now that you have a plan, execute. Don’t ignore contact efforts from customers. Schedule so that you know you can meet your commitments. Communicate clearly and effectively. Do what you say. Be honest. Think about your customer’s needs and wants and try to tailor your offering to meet those desires. Be willing to spend time researching a customer. Do they want to meet before BCD so they can get to know you better? Are you willing to do that? If you get a great customer you would really like to have back, do you know what to do to make that happen?

If business is slow, have you contacted your established customer base as possible with any kind of offer to encourage them to pay you a visit? HINT: Think of other things beside price to offer them. If you have lots of free time, put it to good use. Find ways to increase your value. In some cases, price may indeed be a factor but don’t assume just because you drop you price a little, it will drive business. That said, the closer you are to the high end of the price range for you segment, the more impact price may have. Don’t be afraid to try a price change but I would recommend looking at other factors first. If you do offer a price drop to the general public, then make it important. Maybe for the weekend only or for a specific day and only for a limited time. If you offer specials too often or for too long, guys will learn to just wait for the special

All of this is very generalized. A lot of it boils down to learning how to treat what is by its very nature a very personal thing as a business without losing that personal connection.

Good luck ladies! I hope all of you do well and that this was helpful, even if just a little.

Hey Bubba

Good afternoon to you..


Just my thoughts.

1. Some Hobbyist are not concerned with price. They rather would have a good time, than knowing she has an assembly line waiting,and he is number 10 for the day.

2. Ah,sales, I really do admire how guys scream they are in sales. Our business is personal and intimate. Do you suck cock? Lick balls, Kiss, cuddle, swallow cum for your business......its insulting. We are ladies, not a product, you cannot go into a store and pick us up off a shelf...........well okay maybe in Amsterdam..Lol

2. Ah the price structure....

The only person who can tell you that is the ladies.

Some ladies look for quick cash, as many as they can.....keep the train moving, this brings everybody into the fold....and that is their business. They are not truly concern about getting repeats, because the gravy train is still moving.

Some ladies want long term money, they provide an experience. They do not want alot of traffic, no gravy train. Bills may not be high, want to keep a low profile. They want quality clients, that they can take their time with, maybe even have a drink before or after. Because there is no assembly line.



You know its very discouraging to read and see how men openly speak about us ladies. Not saying you Bubba, but just in general. How the economy is bad and how ladies in general should accommodate the gents. How much should we charge. I actually had a gent in Austin answer this question. His answer was surprising reasonable.

For the record, I have acouple of gents grandfathered at a very accommodating rate. if you see a gal who runs a special, dont walk, run to it. You may just get grandfathered in, provided you are a gentlemen and treated the lady well.

Do you gents not like us here, are we that unreasonable? Its many good, wonderful ladies on this board. Its really sad to read how guys think we are over priced. This does not make us feel wanted. And what about the ladies who do run specials, I have seen some very good ones lately. Do the gents not go see them? Are they not special?

Bubba my long winded spill was not totally directed at you...

Have a beautiful day

It's been a buyer's market in Dallas for as long as I can remember; one gorgeous Provider after another. Some Providers charge more and some Hobbyists will tell you that its worth the extra $ or $$. The wild card seems to be the AMPS which have fairly standard rates for 30 minutes or an hour of fun, are staffed with gorgeous, exotic-looking women and can be had for reasonable amounts. Why spend $$$ or $$$$ for the "(fill in the Provider's name) experience" when I can spend half that amount, leave with a smile on my face and enough $ to come back tomorrow?

I suppose if I want a very special experience I'd pay more, but most times what I'm seeking doesn't require laying out an exhorbitant amount of funds.

Well that was truly uplifting, what is the definition of a special experience?

Billion dollar question

Do any gents here actually appreciate the lovely ladies here?

Well that was truly uplifting, what is the definition of a special experience?

Billion dollar question

Do any gents here actually appreciate the lovely ladies here? Originally Posted by lisa.lisa0302

My plan on this thread was to remain silent but for some reason I keyed in on "any". Short answer: YES. Long answer:YES!

I've bowed out of posting past my initial "what would make you come back" because it turned quantitative. I may just not be cut out for this if I have to take X + Y sub z and factor in only what can be measured to get to the preferred contact method which I will then promptly ignore. I know there are some that don't give a flip for more than an in and out but I don't understand it. And I know some need an XYZ approach but I can't rationalize that one any better. If a provider wants to know MY views I'll give them. If a guy wants to question my objectivity on a provider my info will be sparce (since all interaction would become subjective) but freely available.

Should have kept quiet I know..

I know there is much more that can be offered but only so much typing I can do. J
Originally Posted by Bubba3452

oh... that was way more than enough. i guess. i quit reading at about the above statement.

JPdM

JPdM - you read more than I did. I stopped reading at disclaimer #4...

here is my short of the topic...

1) I got $x amount to spend.
2) the lady is nice looking, offers what I am wanting now
3) her rate or rates is equal to or less than my $x
4) I call and schedule time with her
5) I show up
6) I have fun
7) I am happy got what I wanted
8) she is happy (has my money)

the above is for a session that went good... Does any one what to see the short list of a poor session?

Lisa, maybe your just venting. I know your not directing all you said at me. And I am not directing all I have to say at you. But, I started this to help drive things away from price to the much broader concept of value and how to understand the difference, Your post simply drives things right back to price. If you respond so negitiavily to someone who really wants to help and is concerned, even if they may do it poorly, then you will find it very lonely. There are many of us who do care, who do want to help. But most keep their mouths shut because they dont want to get trashed.

If you said Thank you for trying but your missing some important factors, then I would be asking you to educate me, help me be a better consumer. Show me how to get more value for my money. You know what is really insulting and discouraging? Being told over and over that because I am a guy, I know nothing, I can not possibly understand your side. Bull Shit. Being good at selling anything has nothing to do with male or female. What does matter is being able to see, understand, and fill the needs of your customer. It does not matter if its sex or cars.

I really hope I did not give the impression I think many women are over priced. In fact, I thought I made it quite clear that price is or can be less of an issue for most than some guys try to make it. I do not know of a single post I have made that tells anyone what they should charge. I may have stated they are not in my price range but that is very different. I even asked what made a specific woman worth so much because I did not know. But even there I never said she was over priced, just too much for me.

All hobbists are concerned with Value. Thats is one of the major points of my post. Price is only one componet. I am trying to get people to think of the whole picture, not focus on price.

The ability to get someone to buy something, reguardless of what it is, can be improved in many ways. If you (not you specificly, but providers in general) are going talk about things being slow, and we guys who actualy care see things from our view point that can contrubite to your lack of business, then dont get huffy if we try to educate you about what matters to us. We are, after all, the consumer. If you dont present what we want in a way we find attractive, we will go elseware.

You may be selling something we want and don't have but the attitude that its so special only you can place a value on it is just flat out wrong. You may be ladies and what you do is very personal but what your selling IS a product. That is not intended to be insulting in any way. It may not be sitting on a shelf in a store, but in a way it is. This is, for all intents and purposes, a store. It may be virtual, but it is still a location for you to sell a product/service to us. That does not exclude caring and passion and intimacy. Those are or can be all part of the product/service your selling. Maybe a large part of the problem is you fail to understand that.

You may be an expert on delivering that product/service but I have to tell you many of you SUCK (not in a good way) at getting and keeping customers and getting the most for your time and effort. Many think just because they have something to sell, it makes them an expert know it all in getting guys to buy it. And that we as customers know nothing. As long as you fail to understand your customer, you will continue to have problems. Oh yes, just based on numbers you will make money. But your going to have to work harder, longer, and with more problems than those that have learned to know their customer.

You know who the real experts are? They are the ladies who are sitting back and saying nothing. They know their customers and how to make things work, even in bad times. Things may get slow, but they are doing OK, Thank you very much. In good times, even a bad salesman can make money, the really good ones make money in bad times as well.

I will tell you just like I tell so many guys, If you see someone trying to help or understand, even if they are wrong, be helpfull and encourage. If most or all of what you have to say is negitiave, just STFU. You are making things worse not better. If you see nothing of value here move on. If you see an outright falsehood or error, explain why you feel that way and how to make it better. Take advantage of the guys who care and want to help. We are your allies, not your enemies

I was going to erase what I just said but decided to just say, I care. I appriciate and respect what you do and am glad many of you are here.

Trash me all you want. But, show me some respect and I will do anything I can for you. Help me understand better and I will repay that by being a better customer.

When you trash someone trying to help in a polite, respectfull way, you hurt yourselves. Maybe you don't like my style or that I don't have a clue what I am talking about and thats OK. But don't trash someone for caring. There are a lot of guys who feel like I do in many ways. Who do you think we add to out do not see lists? Hmm.

Bubba, personally I enjoyed your post and understand what you are trying to say/do. Not to imply that others don't, but people interpret things differently just as we all have different goals/reasons for being in this make-believe world of ours.

Thank you,
Jas

Soooo.... I've been in sales before, too. Retail, commercial, etc. I can tell you that being in sales was MUCH different from this job. Stop thinking that because you've been in sales before, you think you know how to run my business better than I do. You don't. Until you put yourself out there as a provider, you just don't. It is different. VERY different. I was a fantastic sales person. There are certain things that carry over, such as client satisfaction and relationships and such, but it's two totally different things. I can't believe the audacity of some of you guys trying to tell us that you know what our business is like. We are not JUST sales people. We are ownership, management, sales, security, finance, etc all by ourselves. Sometimes we mess up. Sometimes we get confused or drop the ball. The day I see that the person giving me all this super advice has actually DONE this job, then I will pay attention. Which means I take my advice from the other ladies, who have been there and know. Not you.

I apologize if this sounded mean or blunt, but it is honestly how I feel. Lisa was right, it's insulting...

I think that most of the frustration is coming from the multitude of threads on several different forums in regards to price, value, the market, etc. While your intentions may be good- its probably just too much right now, considering all the other threads in the same vein that are currently going on.

Kinda like selling your home in a Buyer's market. Your house may be very nice. Perhaps it's even the newest on the block (no dings, not much wear and tear on the appliances and the door knobs are...spectacular!). You keep the shrubbery trimmed around the front door and scrub away the skid marks on the back door. You have a Welcome or For Sale sign out front and truly believe that your house is THE best on the block so you price it at....let's say 400. You truly believe that customers will be banging away at your doors in no time. Then that "older" house down the street sells for 325. What the fuck! The shrubbery looks like it needs a hedge trimmer taken to it and there's even a "No Trespassing" sign hanging from the back door!! You lower the price of your new(er) house to 350 and pray that someone will appreciate how "special" your interior space is compared to the somewhat "dated" look of the competition. Surely there will be someone that sees your finely-trimmed shrubbery and trim entryway as better than all of the other shruubery-strewn entrances and fork over the price you want. Then another Old(er) house sells for 300!! And that one home you figured would NEVER sell unless it was to a 3-legged chimp with an overbite and hemmorhoids goes for 275!!! Oh my GOD you think. Am I over-priced? Should I remove my shrubbery? Wash the entrance? Perhaps hold an free Open House? Change agents????? Finally, your home is the only one on the block without an offer and you become resigned that you just can't wait for that special buyer willing to fork out what YOU want to charge. You're resigned to the fact that your house isn't much different than another; especially if it's priced above market. Sigh, you think...it is a Buyers market and you lower your price to a level that will command attention. Three weeks later at 220 you're getting the traffic you require to pay the bills. Welcome to a free market economy!

Well that was truly uplifting, what is the definition of a special experience?

Billion dollar question

Do any gents here actually appreciate the lovely ladies here? Originally Posted by lisa.lisa0302

Having traveled the world...europe, Australia, asia and lived 20 in the sf bay area, i do appreciate dallas and the selection and quality of ladies here...best in the world.

As far a value...i would have to go with Australia...only cause it is legal there and the classy brothels accept charge cards...so i used my UAL visa card and got frequent flyer miles for f**king...really did. now that is truly the friendly skies!!

I think Traci has a point. Many of us know business and being hobbyists, we know this business; we just don't know the details of the provider's side of it. Not to be too simplistic, but for hobbyists, it's an "I pay, she lays" business. A lot of customer service and attention to relationship details goes with that, for both participants. But for providers, they've got to take care of all the messy details--setting up incall, cleaning up after a visit, etc. And I don't think most hobbyists ever give that much thought.