Pimps vs Save-A-Ho's....... Do either REALLY care?... a girl tends to think both do....

BeckyonherKnees has a monkey on her back....

So she decides to rent her cootch.... $200 an hour....

It's a bit more than than she thought but she doesn't think about it much when she feeds monkeyonherback..... so she feeds monkeyonherback more and in turn needs to make more.....

PurpleHattedPimpDaddy comes across BeckyonherKnees and adds her to his stable

He increases her business charging $250 and hour and keeping $120.
He also feeds monkeyonherback.... It's easy because he has several girls with monkeysontheirbacks..... he gets a discount on money food....

monkeyonherback just develops a bigger appetite.....

CaptainSaveAHo comes along and rescues BeckyonherKnees from PurpleHattedPimpDaddy.

He teaches BeckyonherKnees the ways of ECCIE and being Independent and tells her how easy it is to make $260 an hour and not pay PurpleHattedPimpDaddy anything!

AT first BeckyonherKnees makes more and more money and feeds monkeyonherback better and better and more and more.....

Now monkeyonherback has complete control of BeckyonherKnees......

and BeckyonherKnees begins to fall apart under the pressure........ Does she turn to CaptainSaveAHo? or to PurpleHattedPimpDaddy?...Purpl eHattedPimpDaddy does have monkey food after all.....

PurpleHattedPimpDaddy and CaptainSaveAHo were not that much different...... Niether cared about the monkeyonherback that was consuming BeckyonherKnees body and soul.....

PurpleHattedPimpDaddy needed his money....
CaptainSaveAHo needed to feel like he mattered.....

Why is it that along the way noone ever cares about the monkeyonherback?

Once again.....

PurpleHattedPimpDaddy and CaptainSaveAHo were not that much different......

Both needed monkeyonherback in order to matter to BeckyonherKnees

Some girls work to feed their kids.
Some girls work to educate themselves for a better life.
Some girls work to support the monkeyonherback

When you come across someone with a problem you think you want to help.....

Care enough to think about what the problem really is......

and if what you think is helping is what she really needs....

or are you doing it for yourself.....

Note:

BeckyonherKnees, PurpleHattedPimpDaddy and CaptainSaveAHo are meant to be fictional names for the purpose of the story and not to reference any members past or present.

monkeyonherback can represent a variety of different issues and not any one in particular.....

All the actors in your play are pretty easy to recognize, except monkeyonherback.
Probably most help is for selfish reasons.
Not all of course.
Best to help those willing to help themselves.

I'm not about to open the can of worms that is a discussion on addiction (in whatever form). Last time a "yay! sobriety!" thread started up there was a surprisingly heated debate on the nature of addiction, a debate that's isn't anywhere near being over in professional communities. If the neuroscientists, clinical psychologists, addiction specialists, and addicts can't agree on these things, what good does yelling about it on a hooker board do? Anywho...

Do some people in our community need help/support? Absolutely.
Does that give everyone else in our community the right to start nosing in on the lives of strangers?* Absolutely not.
Is "pimp" management exploitative? Absolutely.
Is all management exploitative? Nope.
Is the savior your describing actually saving a girl at all? Probably not, at least in the scenario you describe.

At the end of the day, I think ladies having more opportunities on how to run their business is good, thereby making an introduction to ECCIE a good thing. (Well, like don't invite your hot cop friends, ya know?) More perfect information for suppliers and purchasers greases the wheels of the market, etc. etc. The "fat stacks fast"/gray market nature of this business will always attract people who need fat stacks fast all super secret like. Sometimes these people super suck and sometimes they're super sick. I think that there is a very strong ethical argument against seeing women who appear to be using donation cash for harm, although I'm willing to admit that this argument is slippery as fuck as "harm" is subjective as fuck.

I appreciate the reminder that things in this world are dark in the corners. When you're a decently priced call girl who frowns at a last minute cancellation because you just blew $300 at Sephora you otherwise wouldn't have, it's easy to forget that a lot of sex workers aren't quite so privileged.


*It's fairly astonishing how quick dudes are to do this in the hobby. "You have kids? Hurry up then!" "You have a record?" "You must be in debt or something...you know I can help." etc. etc. etc.

When it comes down to it in the end the only one who cares about you in this world is yourself....

In your scenario, you seem to imply BeckyonherKnees is unwilling / unable to do anything but feed the monkey. As long as that is true it doesn't matter who is in her life they are all just means to the end.

That said maybe CaptainSaveAHo is the better path as she'll make more money and hit rock bottom faster. (whatever that may be for her personally)

Maybe PurpleHattedPimpDaddy is better cause at least he'll keep her alive and earning.

Finally in your scenario, you don't mention if CaptainSaveAHo is monkey aware or not. If he is? Then I am not sure you could really call him a CaptainSaveAHo but more of a PrivateHoCollector. If he isn't; can you label him a villain armed with good intentions and ignorance?

Didn't we learn this lesson as children?

Its all fun and games until the flying monkies show up and tear you to pieces...

I've always steered clear of addicts both in RL and in this fantasyland. Obviously addiction can take many forms. My working definition is an unhealthy habit one continues out of compulsion rather than choice. But clearly unhealthy is subjective and the only person who absolutely knows if they choose something is the one who makes the choice. I share Jenn's sentiment that it's not a clear-cut concept and won't be settled here.

I will add that I've seen it in other industries where people in the prime of their life suddenly come into a lot of money, in some cases completely above board, and don't handle it well. Sometimes addiction plays a part, other times it's just that they were never taught money management.

At the end of the day, people are responsible for themselves. I'm responsible for following my own moral compass. Saving people from their own choices is neither my right nor my responsibility. You can point a thirsty man towards the river, but you can't make him carry a water bottle.

Human traffickers still belong in the earth, not on it.

Didn't we learn this lesson as children?

Its all fun and games until the flying monkies show up and tear you to pieces... Originally Posted by Toyz

Am I the only one who had a bit of a childhood crush on Margaret Hamilton as the Wicked Witch of the West?

All the actors in your play are pretty easy to recognize, except monkeyonherback.
Probably most help is for selfish reasons.
Not all of course.
Best to help those willing to help themselves. Originally Posted by rockerrick

Truthfully..... I had no specific members in mind in writing what I did. There was a time in my life that I personally played the role of CaptainSaveAHo.......I can draw on my own experiences to state what I do.

...... I think that there is a very strong ethical argument against seeing women who appear to be using donation cash for harm, .............. Originally Posted by JennsLolli

When someone takes time to inject themselves in a ladies business and care enough to try to show them a better way it has always surprised me that they do not also stop to think about what monkeyonherback is driving her. If there is an ethical argument against seeing them there is an even stronger one in first understanding what drives her to harm.

I appreciate the reminder that things in this world are dark in the corners. When you're a decently priced call girl who frowns at a last minute cancellation because you just blew $300 at Sephora you otherwise wouldn't have, it's easy to forget that a lot of sex workers aren't quite so privileged. Originally Posted by JennsLolli

monkeyonherback takes on many forms..as does addiction...... A few years back I held a lady that cried in my arms as she was dealing with having hit a wall having a moral awakening that somewhere along the line she had given up control and was sleeping with men she could not stomach...... her monkeyonherback was a tremendous desire for high dollar luxury items..... she came to terms and charted her own course.... finding a balance that worked for her...She needed no help other than someone to listen as she worked through things for herself....

When it comes down to it in the end the only one who cares about you in this world is yourself.... Originally Posted by VictoriaLyn

It is unfortunate but often the problem for a lady that has monkeyonherback is that she has lost the ability to care about herself along the way. The point of the story is that both PurpleHattedPimpDaddy and CaptainSaveAHo are simply doing what BeckyOnHerKnees is not. They each care about themselves and do not pause to see what BeckyOnHerKnees really needs.

In your scenario, you seem to imply BeckyonherKnees is unwilling / unable to do anything but feed the monkey. As long as that is true it doesn't matter who is in her life they are all just means to the end.

I disagree. I do not believe that you can assume that BeckyonherKnees is unwilling. There was definitely a point in her life where she made conscious decisions but along the way monkeyonherback took control and rendered her unable. At times it takes someone willing to step in and take control and remove monkeyonherback long enough for BeckyonherKnees to be able to regain control and make a conscious decision for herself.

That said maybe CaptainSaveAHo is the better path as she'll make more money and hit rock bottom faster. (whatever that may be for her personally)

I disagree. Sending someone down a dangerous path faster and faster could be doing irreparable harm to BeckyOnHerKnees health and well being.

Maybe PurpleHattedPimpDaddy is better cause at least he'll keep her alive and earning.

Perhaps. PurpleHattedPimpDaddy is at least aware of the monkeyonherback and has an interest in keeping her "alive and earning" as you state. He may actually be a more stabilizing influence than CaptainSaveAHo

Finally in your scenario, you don't mention if CaptainSaveAHo is monkey aware or not. If he is?

No. I do not believe most CaptainSaveAHo's pause to even consider monkeyonherback. Blind Ignorance for the most part. If they stopped to think it all through they would see something they would probably not understand and then could not justify the help they are offering that makes them feel better. To see and understand monkeyonherback as well as to be intelligent enough to understand it's impact would mean she needed help of a different nature than he is providing.

Then I am not sure you could really call him a CaptainSaveAHo but more of a PrivateHoCollector. If he isn't; can you label him a villain armed with good intentions and ignorance? Originally Posted by Bob McV

A villain? No.
Ignorant? Yes
Good Intentions? Not if they serve to do her harm and his actions are not formed with at least considering and trying to understand the bigger picture......

Didn't we learn this lesson as children?

Its all fun and games until the flying monkies show up and tear you to pieces... Originally Posted by Toyz

Were you trying to be funny Toyz?

Or showing a true awareness of what can actually happens at times.....

It really is "all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up and tear her to pieces..."

Listen Folks......

All I am saying here is that people should stop and think about what they are doing and know what drives a situation they think they should get involved in. Once they do, if they do not understand how best to help someone OR they are unwilling to do what is really needed then they should they should walk away because often they do more harm than good.

It is really, really hard to help someone without first knowing what ails them.

If you are going to care enough to help...... Care enough to stop and first understand the real nature of a problem.

That is all this post is about. Suggesting that people pause and think and try to understand. And if they don't then seek help in understanding before they do anything.

All I am saying here is that people should stop and think about what they are doing and know what drives a situation they think they should get involved in. Originally Posted by Whispers

That's excellent advice. I'm see a whole new side to you (I mean that as a compliment).

I would even go so far as to extend it. People should stop to think about what drives them and why they do what they do. Why are you here? Why do you see providers? Will you still be able to get out of it what drives you to do it if you're completely honest with yourself about both your motives, and the motives and exigencies of providers? In short, will your motives survive acknowledging that the providers your paying at best consider you a lesser evil and at worst can't stomach the thought of being with you? Do you still want the companionship of someone who's intimacy and affection you can never be confident is even the least bit genuine?

The very fact that so many clients develop affinities for providers puts the lie to the notion that, those clients at least, are seeking purely physical enjoyment. I would argue that really no one can completely compartmentalize carnality and emotionality, which is why clients start believing the fantasy and providers get sick of providing.

My guess is that most CaptainSaveAHos are motivated by the prospect of being a hero to someone. What would they do if they realized the providers saw them as a benign cancer, a slightly easier pass on a dilapidated road?

Whispers yes...was adding a bit of levity to a huge over assumption.

Based on the storyline every pimp sells monkies and every hoggar collects them and every captain doesn't sell monkies.

While I'm sure monkey collecting is ONE factor...I don't think its the ONLY factor for why people are in the hobby in all three roles.

Otherwise I mostly agree with you assertions. I don't try to be a Cap'n and I'm certainly not Pimp material. Just a consumer of said product... And if i accidentally see a monkey collector, I don't see her twice. And I fully understand I might not even know if she has monkies at home I am not aware off.

Not.making light of a serious issue...just don't agree that it's 100% across the board an issue is all.

@ Whispers, I didn't mean your story identified anyone, more that pimps, capt save a ho's, and spiraling providers are easy to identify when they show themselves
And the cause of the spiral not always easy to identify specifically.

Not.making light of a serious issue...just don't agree that it's 100% across the board an issue is all. Originally Posted by Toyz

I never thought you were and I also do not believe it is a "100% across the board issue"

I never thought you were and I also do not believe it is a "100% across the board issue"
Originally Posted by Whispers

Fair enough...and again yah I was just adding a cuckle into a serious discussion. And I have met a few monkie collectors in my travels and realize I am neither qualified or motivated to don the Cap'ns hat. I merely walk away.

And I have met a few monkie collectors in my travels and realize I am neither qualified or motivated to don the Cap'ns hat. Originally Posted by Toyz

No albatross?

I always wanted a monkey.