Men and Woman. Out of balance!

So as a bona fide tree huger that was raised in the land of nuts and fairies, I just do not get the uneven tilt, there is here. It could just be a cultural thing (Texas) or the way most here have been raised. One thing that is certain is that nature will always right itself, one-way or the other. I mean the way woman are treated and depicted here is so off. Day after day, I read one guy telling a Provider that she has no place voicing her opinion, and the other telling one how stupid she is in BCD tags, that she is not worth a dime. What gives with this? Aren’t we here to enjoy the company of women, even if it is P4P, this doesn’t mean one has to feel like they are superior, that all women, especially the ones they pay for need to shut up and be good little girls?

Is it just a power thing, that men just have to be superior to women, or is it just in this world that they need to be subservient to men? Would you treat your colleagues this way, even if you were paying them for a service? Would you disrespect them time and time again beating them back? I would think not.

I just don’t get it, I will most likely be dubbed as pussywipped and a WK, but really this does not bother me,(just don't care what you think) I mean I am here to see women, to treat them with respect, and yes as an equal, not just as man and woman, but as fellow hobbyist and human beings. This whole notion that woman can’t have an opinion, or that they need to shut up and take all the crap that is spewed out, really is out of balance. There are so many guys that are very respectful, and just plane nice guys, call them WK, or PW, whatever. Just saying, “well I am respectful to woman” just isn’t enough, your actions carry so much more weight than that. I know that not many see things the way I do, that the ladies, here should be treated equally, to have an equal space as we the gents do, and not to feel that if they say something that really is their business, because it is and if they were not here, then that would just leave all the dickwipped guys to play with each other, and yes they need us to, but come on, constantly they get told to get back in place. Kind of reminds one of a time long ago.

Balance was so off back at ASPD, and when it finally sunk I was relived that such a mess was no longer among us. Then this site came to be (just when the big boat started taking on water) and filled the void that was left. I was hopeful that the balance would right it’s self, but it hasn’t, and it is far from it. A site can be fair, honest and liberal, but still have heavy overtones of inequality, as this site does. It may just be me that feels that equality would be the right way to go, and that it would be a better place. This whole street Cred, Bros thing is such a joke. Really, so some guy sitting behind a keyboard is going to respect you because you treat woman badly, and tell it like it is, truthfully, or that I would even care what he thinks, really. This kind of mentality is so disconnected from reality that maybe this is just a fantasy and all the Bros should be seeing each other, at least they would be in agreement to there like’s and dislikes.

Not a manifesto, just an opinion.

DM

Very well written.... thank you!

I think a lot of what you read in a review needs to be taken with a grain of salt. some guys write things they do not mean or trying to sound cool..and then there is the 'wolf pack' mentality.. I know I am guilty of getting caught up in threads... and may say things that I truly do not mean.

This is a 'Fantasy' site NOT reality...so

I am sure there are some real asshole men who believe what you state but those are not the majority...

Well, now that it's been brought up, I'm sure it'll get better and manners will improve. It just needed to be pointed out to them... uh huh. Dat's it.!

Well Iron, I guess its all in the matter how you read a post or a review, this world, except maybe in tree hugging country, there are many different views how things are done. I personally like a person that is direct and states what is on his or her mind, thou I might not always agree with the direction of his or her task at expressing their views, I at least know where they stand. With that knowledge I can then choose if I find their view as valuable information or not, but I do know where they stand.

When someone here rubs me in the wrong way, yes it brothers me, but only for a second or two, but I have tuff skin.

It's not a perfect world, why would this place be any different?

Now I have been known to express my thoughts, and have done so in BCD tags, but when I do so its because of a personal experience that has happen, I don't just make up shit to to bitch...if you see that from me and you wonder why, hey PM me and we will take it in that direction and I will be glad to explain just why I made the comment.

IB,

That was a nice read! Thoroughly enjoyed it and appreciated it. Unfortunately, I can not write as eloquently as you. So I will be more direct to the point.

My dad always taught me “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all” I have tried to adhere to his sound advice throughout my life.

With that in mind, there sure has been a lot of mud-slinging around here as of late. Why? Are we not all here to have fun and hobby? I used to think so! But lately the bad blood has been scaring off potential hotties from visiting, posting and quite frankly left a bad taste in the mouths (sorry for the pun) of both the hobbyist and providers alike. I have talked to a few gals, local and out of town, that have asked me “What’s going on down there?”. Obviously we are scaring off a lot of potential hotties from visiting as well as some Austin Gems from posting. Now this is not just the guys. Some of ladies need to adhere to what I am writing as well!

Don’t get me wrong I am not trying to make this a “Cumbya board” but please tone down the drama and the attitudes. Sometimes, things should just be said in the LR or PIE and not in the COED. As IB eluded, I believe allot of us like to read our own bull-shit! Kind of funny, huh? We can be big and tough behind a keyboard and an avatar, but are they really like that in person? No I bet not! I guess if we all looked like Brad Pitt, had a 12 inch cock and had a harem of hot babes we wouldn’t be here. (Except for you REB … sorry)

I am not going to go into “Why we are all here”. It’s obvious why! But if we keep on disrespecting each other, people are going to start looking for other resources.

Guys and Gals, do you want to cruise Powell? (Okay except for you 6 *wink*) or take a chance on BP or CL without the information we get here? I don’t! I respect and value the wealth of Hobby information that I gather here from both the gals and gents and would like to see it continue and flourish.

Recently, when several of the board members met, there seem to be one central topic discussed throughout the evening. I want to thank IB for having the huevos in sharing just that topic! Apparently, there is a lot of folks that agree. They are not expressing it for fear of being attacked. WK’s , PWs ect…..

My intentions are NOT to start a flame war. Quite the contrary, I would like to see it improve and be more civil. Can we all agree to disagree and RESPECT each other, have fun, share information, question what needs to be questioned respectfully and have fun and hobby safely!

Okay, I have my WK/PW bullet proof vest on ….. FIRE AWAY !!!

It's not because they're women, it's because they're sex workers. Google "madonna-whore complex" for a more in depth explanation. If you think that's a crock, just look at how many guys on these boards complain about sexually cold/distant wives who are otherwise good wife material, want to do dirty things with providers that they would never subject the mother of their children to, etc. There are probably a few guys who are blatant misogynists, but I'm pretty sure they're in the minority.

IB,

That was a nice read! Thoroughly enjoyed it and appreciated it. Unfortunately, I can not write as eloquently as you. So I will be more direct to the point.

My dad always taught me “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all” I have tried to adhere to his sound advice throughout my life.

With that in mind, there sure has been a lot of mud-slinging around here as of late. Why? Are we not all here to have fun and hobby? I used to think so! But lately the bad blood has been scaring off potential hotties from visiting, posting and quite frankly left a bad taste in the mouths (sorry for the pun) of both the hobbyist and providers alike. I have talked to a few gals, local and out of town, that have asked me “What’s going on down there?”. Obviously we are scaring off a lot of potential hotties from visiting as well as some Austin Gems from posting. Now this is not just the guys. Some of ladies need to adhere to what I am writing as well!

Don’t get me wrong I am not trying to make this a “Cumbya board” but please tone down the drama and the attitudes. Sometimes, things should just be said in the LR or PIE and not in the COED. As IB eluded, I believe allot of us like to read our own bull-shit! Kind of funny, huh? We can be big and tough behind a keyboard and an avatar, but are they really like that in person? No I bet not! I guess if we all looked like Brad Pitt, had a 12 inch cock and had a harem of hot babes we wouldn’t be here. (Except for you REB … sorry)

I am not going to go into “Why we are all here”. It’s obvious why! But if we keep on disrespecting each other, people are going to start looking for other resources.

Guys and Gals, do you want to cruise Powell? (Okay except for you 6 *wink*) or take a chance on BP or CL without the information we get here? I don’t! I respect and value the wealth of Hobby information that I gather here from both the gals and gents and would like to see it continue and flourish.

Recently, when several of the board members met, there seem to be one central topic discussed throughout the evening. I want to thank IB for having the huevos in sharing just that topic! Apparently, there is a lot of folks that agree. They are not expressing it for fear of being attacked. WK’s , PWs ect…..

My intentions are NOT to start a flame war. Quite the contrary, I would like to see it improve and be more civil. Can we all agree to disagree and RESPECT each other, have fun, share information, question what needs to be questioned respectfully and have fun and hobby safely!

Okay, I have my WK/PW bullet proof vest on ….. FIRE AWAY !!! Originally Posted by CupOfJava

Java, I like you, you are a good guy, but I have to respectfully dissagree.

My dad told me the same thing when I was a kid, but there are times when people need to be told the truth. This is why we have people going on American Idol with no talent thinking they will be the next sensation. Someone in their life has tried to spare their feelings rather than giving them the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts but we learn from it. If we aren't learning are we really living?

Eccie has proven to be the kind of place that allows discussions to evolve naturally. We discuss things and we learn, we are allowed a little more leeway with the way we can present our thoughts, but in general it is kept respectful.

Occaisionally people dissagree but I think MOST of us are capable of doing so with respect. Hell, Dammit and I are being amicable lately, who knew?!

I said it before and I still believe it, I think we are experiencing a kind of correction from where this community was in the past. It seems like an over correction now, but once there is some equilibrium I think we will be a better community for it.

At ASPD I had been "drinking the kool aide" and was blinded by the people driving discussion over there. I thought the things that were being posted were true, reality, the way things actually were. I learned that this was not the case. As things have changed I have found myself agreeing with people I never saw "eye to eye" with before. I like Eccie, I love it here actually. This is where the action is, the information, and the women.

As far as scaring people off? Well, we have actually seen a lot more visitors than in the past. And they are having success. The regular posters shying away??? Well maybe some of them need to move on to greener pastures anyway.

But what do I know?

I see it in the middle of both in all honesty. On the one hand i agree there is the we are the cool kids in town crowd who like to be passive aggressive in nature and put strong opinions across and come across somewhat anti provider. Then there is the crowd who simply will defend and speak of the perfection of ladys they think are amazing. Both tick me the wrong way in one way or another. I really feel I'm somewhere in the middle, I appreciate ALOT what providers have given me up to this point but i also try not to put them up on a pedestal as i honestly believe it effect them for the worse in long run. I also want to see honesty and a fair reflection of how people feel and not a load of she was wonderful/they were wonderful posts the information would become pointless if you did not have individual experiences differ in anyway.

A good example the Ella review which has loads of replies, She is now much higher on my list because of that review. I'm not sure how to put the why into words but it has something to do with the fact that she comes across more human and not this constant perfection that everyone up to then has said about her. I now feel i will go and see her with a more rounded perception and I'm convinced have a better time.

I really feel that we have to find the middle ground it is there and can be achieved. I'm all for honesty and respecting each other but not where it becomes a slagging match or this fake perfect world.

I see it in the middle of both in all honesty. On the one hand i agree there is the we are the cool kids in town crowd who like to be passive aggressive in nature and put strong opinions across and come across somewhat anti provider. Then there is the crowd who simply will defend and speak of the perfection of ladys they think are amazing. Both tick me the wrong way in one way or another. I really feel I'm somewhere in the middle, I appreciate ALOT what providers have given me up to this point but i also try not to put them up on a pedestal as i honestly believe it effect them for the worse in long run. I also want to see honesty and a fair reflection of how people feel and not a load of she was wonderful/they were wonderful posts the information would become pointless if you did not have individual experiences differ in anyway.

A good example the Ella review which has loads of replies, She is now much higher on my list because of that review. I'm not sure how to put the why into words but it has something to do with the fact that she comes across more human and not this constant perfection that everyone up to then has said about her. I now feel i will go and see her with a more rounded perception and I'm convinced have a better time.

I really feel that we have to find the middle ground it is there and can be achieved. I'm all for honesty and respecting each other but not where it becomes a slagging match or this fake perfect world. Originally Posted by Rammixp

Thanks Rammixp,

And I totally agree with you on the Ella review effect. I am more interested now myself.

Thank you Iron Butterfly and you too CupofJava, I appreciate your posts. I too have been very disappointed in the domination of the Austin ECCI site by those who apparently want to put everything into a Blue Team vs the Pink Team basis. ASPD had been sliding into that state even before it began to flounder and I had hoped that some of the Us Guys united against those (insert adolescent abusive expletive noun for women here} rhetoric would go down with it. Didn’t happen. It’s my subjective opinion but it appears that it has gotten worse. Maybe ASPD actually Was moderated vigorously to tone down the misogynism and that lot of the worse stuff got tossed into the cyber garbage bin before it got noticed. Perhaps a lighter hand on this successor site has merely revealed the fear, loathing and hatred, of women, that was already present.

It is pretty pervasive in society as a whole so maybe it is not a big surprise that an overwhelming preference for male everything over female anything should turn up here too, shouting in unison. I am fond of saying that if women as a group realized how many men hate them, all of them, just because they are women, and to what degree, there would be a lot more ladies carrying personal self-defense firearms as a matter of course. So why expect anything different (better) here? Well, the one reason we men are here is because we like sex with women. For some of us that is a big part of Capital “L” life and for some of us that favorably disposes us toward the other half of the population among whom are the small number of sex partners, however temporary, we would like to have and toward the much smaller number of potential partners we actually can have for only the mere payment of some money. For me that makes them valuable assets to be conserved, respected and, so far as possible, protected.

Some for the Fellows apparently find this a hard concept to understand or maybe they work particularly hard at not understanding it so I will try to make it clear: women and sex are important to me, and, the small number of women who have made themselves available here in pay for play land And who appeal to me are an absolutely vital part of my emotional and psychological ecology. The emotionally arrested guys in jockey straps over there in the corner popping each other with wet towels and doing competitive farting contribute nothing that I want or need and the Devil can take them sooner rather than later as far as I am concerned. Is that keeping it sufficiently real for everyone?

NOW, assuming that all of we xy chromosome people are here because we like/need sex with women who are too good for us, in terms of looks, age and skill, to obtain out in the greatly overrated Real World, what, exactly, is the purpose of unceasing torrent of US vs THEM posts complaining in every possible way about women? Like IB I suppose I just don’t get the point of participating in the Misogynist’s Chorus. Don’t like women? Join a monastery. Don’t like sex with women? Plenty of gay bars in town. Tortured by the shameful drive to have sex with people you don’t like or respect and whom you blame for your misery? Well, that is a tough one. Maybe someone with an M.D. or a Phd after their name might be able to help - eventually - don’t forget to bring money to those appointments too though.

Is anything likely to change around here? Probably not. It is a big auditorium here in cyberspace and nearly all of the audience is sitting silently out there in the dark. Most never say a word. Most of the chatter here is from a handful of hyperactive people. I have not been able to avoid noticing that some of the people who were entertaining and sometimes even enlightening back on ASPD Austin have fallen silent here lately, except for reviews. Probably they are intimidated by the Posting Posse. A fall back position is to just read (and post) reviews and ads and let it go at that. Or put the Boy’s Club on “Ignore”. I have ten of them on there now and notice they are putting up at least 25% of total posts, not counting ads and the Sandbox. Still, it is hard to give up on the idea of an amiable and interactive community of sex positive people here within our band of outlaws. Anyone have ideas about how to nurture one? It would have to include ignoring the angry taunts of the “bros before hos” faction.

greymouse

Thanks Cup of Java for my mention!!! I was beginning to feel left out. We could debate about this for ever and ever. Sometimes it feels like we have.

People take things way too personal sometimes. I am guilty of myself of that too. Women are here to make money. Plain and simple. I think we can agree on that. If I am wrong, correct me. For some reason, its frowned upon to "bargain shop" in the P4P world. Men say it lacks class, women say other things, etc.

Whats wrong with telling it like it is or perceived to be? Why do men get their balls in a wad if their ATF is in any way crititqued? Shit, I have enjoyed non NCD with a few ladies on here and I don't get in a wad if they are criticized. They are good gals in my eyes. I cannot control what they do with others.

Some people think im a fucktard on this board and real life. Get over it! There are also others who would tell you that im a kick ass motherfucker and they are right too!

Balance, is they key to everything. There is no way that any provider is 100% EVERYTIME. That goes for us gents at our civilian jobs too. Why not have a balance? Let the reader decide. If John did not have a good session, let him post without worries about SIr WK swinging his mighty sword to behead him. If you had a great session, post it and don't worry about sixxbach or someone else who might differ in opinion.

I have even stuck up for providers a few times. I TOTALLY thought the thread on Ms. Hollywood's "weight gain" was uncalled for. I have no probs sticking my head out for issues like that. I think someone posting that a gal was a little misleading in pics is worthy and should be left to the "public" to decide for themsleves. Ms. Hollywood totally embraced her current "state" and was to be applauded.

If this variety in opinions and personalities did not exist, do u really think you would be so anxious to log on as quickly as we do???

Good thread...

It's been my experience that most in the hobby (ladies and gents) have wonderful senses of humor. They ought to; sex is hilarious. It's a perfectly fine thing to be honest and to have opinions, both agreeable and dissenting. As a community board that should be focused on fantasy and pleasure, it shouldn't be too much to ask that these honest views are expressed in way that's tactful or, at the very least, clever. Bonus points if you make us laugh. I believe we can all agree that it's unfortunate how often the humor and fun is lost in our discussions.

Having a positive and cooperative attitude tends to correlate directly to your enjoyment of the topic at hand. The posters (again, both ladies and gents) who constantly find ways to criticize, cause trouble, grouse and generally irritate the crap out of everyone else really seem to me as though they ought to find another way to spend their time. (Deep seated psychosexual anxiety anyone?). Those who use this forum to have interesting discussions and keep up with friends and generally revel in the wonderful exploration and freedom the hobby offers seem to have found both the right place and the right lifestyle.


As for the thread re:Ella, I'm not allowed to weigh in over there, but I will tell you that I had her for lunch today and she was exquisite. Silky and attentive and very engaging. Much more delicious than average. Now stay on topic...

This is really freaky, Sophie dear. I was just on top of you and now I find myself underneath you!

I wholeheartedly vote for more humor and craziness and less sniping and grousing. Hobbies are supposed to be fun after all!

Java, I like you, you are a good guy, but I have to respectfully dissagree.

My dad told me the same thing when I was a kid, but there are times when people need to be told the truth. This is why we have people going on American Idol with no talent thinking they will be the next sensation. Someone in their life has tried to spare their feelings rather than giving them the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts but we learn from it. If we aren't learning are we really living? Originally Posted by rekcaSxT

T-sac, I have seen you several times at the past socials! Enjoyed chatting with you and appreciate your posts.

Well 1st off you have a smart Dad! However, I respectfully disagree with your comments here. I do agree the truth should be told, but it is HOW the truth is told. Would it not be more prudent for the truth be told in the manner the boards were setup? With reviews and in the LR? There is no need for calling out of individuals in the COED just to prove a point or to cause drama. I don't come to the COED for that!

I do not believe there is a need for someone to be playing "Captain Safe a Bro" that all can be done with reviews, back room chatter and the LR

Eccie has proven to be the kind of place that allows discussions to evolve naturally. We discuss things and we learn, we are allowed a little more leeway with the way we can present our thoughts, but in general it is kept respectful.

Occaisionally people dissagree but I think MOST of us are capable of doing so with respect. Hell, Dammit and I are being amicable lately, who knew?!

I agree 110% with the key word being RESPECT. That is my whole point in the nut shell RESPECT eachother.

I said it before and I still believe it, I think we are experiencing a kind of correction from where this community was in the past. It seems like an over correction now, but once there is some equilibrium I think we will be a better community for it.

At ASPD I had been "drinking the kool aide" and was blinded by the people driving discussion over there. I thought the things that were being posted were true, reality, the way things actually were. I learned that this was not the case. As things have changed I have found myself agreeing with people I never saw "eye to eye" with before. I like Eccie, I love it here actually. This is where the action is, the information, and the women.

From the past? Come on T-sac. You and I started this hobby around the same time. Two, three years ago. It was not that bad! LOL It was actually quite respectful, fun and great place to hobby. Or why would you have stuck around during that time?

The old school guys can tell us allot more about the "Good ol days" of ASPD than either of us can.

Now I agree, the last few months on ASPD were a different story and not much fun at all. Why drag that mess over here?

As far as scaring people off? Well, we have actually seen a lot more visitors than in the past. And they are having success. The regular posters shying away??? Well maybe some of them need to move on to greener pastures anyway.

But what do I know?

Well you and I know some different people. But I am sure there are plenty of gals that will work Austin no matter what the boards here were saying. As far as growth here? Well, it's still very new I am sure it is going to improve. I just want to do my part on keeping that way!

T-sac,

I am not calling any individuals out! In fact, I believe most all of us regular posters, including myself, are at fault for letting the board go astray. We all have done our part to "muddy the waters" so to speak. Why not bring the fun back? Why can't we have fun spirited discussions without insults, hurting people feelings and being disrespectful? There is no need for that at all!!!

The "Truth" is told in the Reviews and LR. These two places inform the Hobbyist details that should be told more BCD so the guys can freely talk about, discuss, comment, recommend, insult, not recommend, review, FREELY about lady without repercussions and retaliation and 20 pages of DRAMA. I believe this system works well! When you drag the dirty laundry in the COED, you get 20 pages of drama!!! That doesn't help anyone make an informative decison on anything! Then you just have a bunch of people showing their asses!!!

T-Sac, enjoy your post and conversations. Keep posting my friend!