Where is the art?

Ladies...where is the art of providing gone? Gents are obviously not doing a great job bringing girls into this. Or are new gents terrible?

Gents...how are we destroying the hobby? Believe it or not, you are. Can you make it better?

Girls are high volume, managed, bait and switch, put into agencies, high rates out of the door, not as many girls since so many quit, bbfs is at an all.time high or all time known,.....and on. What's going on with the hobby scene?

Are there independents, selective, ones who actually screen their men? Those who would like to make this a career? Girls who actually consult others for advice?

All this after visiting the many city forums around Texas. Not just SA. We have probably some of the best standing ladies yet.

There used to be an art to this. I haven't been in this long (13 years but huge difference now since then) but there is a huge change in the art of providing to what it is now...

What happened? Can it be saved? Does it need to be?

Just a forum for thought.

Well, I have only been at this maybe three years so my experience in " what it used to be" is nill.
What I can say, is that the trends you mentioned are occuring in many other hobbys/professions. The easy answer is that is the evolution of business. Because that is how the comsumer has evolved. The appreciation of professionalism/work ethic has been surpassed for the ever present need for bigger/faster/cheaper.
I have a friend who builds custom knives. Beautiful works of art that are also functional. And while he has a select group that appreciate that, he hears all the time why people don't order. They just go buy one online. Why wait for quality that will last a lifetime. And PAY for said quality.
That's my theory. But more often than not I'm wrong

Ladies...where is the art of providing gone?
It is with the few ladies left that began with aspd and with a few "higher end/rate" ladies.

Gents are obviously not doing a great job bringing girls into this.

CK would often find quality ladies and introduce them to our world. He was a mentor for many of us. He taught us the business, how to stay safe and most important, he offered advise on how to treat clients in order to be successful in this business. In time, for whatever reason, hobbyists began to criticize him and call him a pimp.
I have never had the pleasure of spending time bcd with CK, but I have sought his advice at least 500 times through the years, and he always took my calls and always offered his advice. Why? In my opinion, because he just simply cared about the hobby.

Or are new gents terrible? Gents have changed. But I believe that a man will treat a woman in the manner she demands. Of course there are always a few bad apples, but in general, I think the woman is who sets the standard. Today I see too often the word whore, hoe, slut being used. 10yrs ago, providers would not allow such vocabulary, hobbyists treated providers with the respect they demanded.

Gents...how are we destroying the hobby? Believe it or not, you are. Can you make it better? Gents should raise their expectations. Demand to get the service you are paying for. Don't be afraid to write a NO review. Think with your big head. Spend your hard earned money wisely.

Girls are high volume, managed, bait and switch, put into agencies, high rates out of the door, not as many girls since so many quit, bbfs is at an all.time high or all time known,.....and on. What's going on with the hobby scene?
Many ladies are providers to support their extra curricular activities (a growing problem in the real world) these activities/habits are expensive, so high volume is necessary to support such.
Agencies..... there was a time when agencies were a great asset for the hobby. Amazing Escorts was a great agency to work for. The ladies that worked for Amazing had someone run their business and in turn, they were expected to provide top notch service to the clients. I also had an agency, I took care of the business side of the hobby as well as training the ladies to provide nothing but excellent service to our clients.

Are there independents, selective, ones who actually screen their men? Those who would like to make this a career? Girls who actually consult others for advice?
The desperate need for money = to very minimal or no screening. There are a very few who actually realize that this is a business, a very lucrative career if managed properly. Women by nature are jealous creatures.....and more so in the hobby. Most providers see other providers as competition, instead of a fellow co-worker. We all want to be the "Star".... the prettiest, best body, best pussy, best ass, etc..... in a providers mind, the one that looks the best, offers the most activities (regardless if they actually enjoy them) will make the most money. Not true, in my opinion.

All this after visiting the many city forums around Texas. Not just SA. We have probably some of the best standing ladies yet.

There used to be an art to this. I haven't been in this long (13 years but huge difference now since then) but there is a huge change in the art of providing to what it is now...

What happened?
The millennium generation. The attitude that they just deserve. Providers that feel they deserve $ just because they are young and beautiful and the client should be grateful to simply be allowed to be in her presence.

Can it be saved? Does it need to be?

Just a forum for thought. Originally Posted by RogueOne

I wish it could be saved. It would take a lot of effort that I doubt most are willing to make.
Does it need to be? In my opinion yes. The hobby would be a much better place for all involved. Although, I doubt it will change.

Personally, I will continue to conduct my business the old school way.
I know that most ladies will criticize me, say I am arrogant, etc..... but maybe someone will actually stop and think.....I have not been available since September, yet I continue to receive 10-15 requests per week.

I have been a provider for 17 years now.
I am 47 years old
I am not young and beautiful
I do not have a perfect body
I do not feel entitled .
I treat my clients as if they were a real life date.
I greatly appreciate the money they spend on me.
I take pleasure in the company of my clients.
I do my best to treat my clients with respect, make them comfortable, make them feel desired.
I only partake in activities I enjoy.
I see this business as a lot more than sex. I sell an experience, an emotional and a physical experience.
My goal is that every client I meet, will always remember the time he spent with me.

My 2 cents.....

Besos,
Francisca

This is a potentially good topic, food for thought and has the potential to get a few people to meditate on the way they handle themselves and make some positive changes – but only a few, because most people are inclined to continue their habitual behaviors even to the point of defending them.

I’ve only been in the hobby for a couple of years now, so I’m not aware of what it used to be like in the good old days, and I do think there is a tendency to romanticize the past. “Things used to be better,” but in what way?

The specific problems the OP mentions do exist, and I don’t mean to discredit or dispute his claims, but they but likely always existed. And while I don’t know how the present compares to the past, the present doesn’t seem that bad: there are definitely high-volume girls who provide mechanical service at a premium price, but reading the ROS of reviews and the threads in coed and the mens lounge is helpful in avoiding them.

And it does take poring over the ROS and the threads to do that: simply glancing at the “recommended” field is not sufficient because it is a pass/fail grade. Even the provider who delivered D-minus service passed and gets the same grade as the one who delivered A-plus service – it’s in the details, from those who take the time to provide them, that you learn whether that “pass” was for anything more than the bare minimum.

I’m having a grand time in the hobby, here on ECCIE, and have only had a small number of instances where the “pass” was a bare-minimum thing. So maybe that puts me into the category of gents who “are inclined to continue their habitual behaviors” because I don’t really experience the problem. I avoid the bad providers, and have experienced only the good (and sometimes the great) and am generally happy with the way things are now, not knowing any better from personal experience.

So if you’re looking for me to change my perspective and behavior, you’ll need to be a bit more detailed in describing the way things were in the good old days and the precise changes that must be made to bring them back. I don’t really know what to do differently based on nebulous reminiscience and general aspersions.

You don't need to change anything John4229. You're a sweetheart and any lady would be lucky to have you as a client

Great thread RogueOne! I am enjoying the replies, especially Ms. Francisca's. Happy Friday to all

Another variable is how you post. Ms. Francesca's submission in this thread is a prime case in point--thoughtful, honest, respectful, but with a heavy aura of spice. Even if I'd not enjoyed her company before, and I have, I'd be interested in her on the basis of posts like this. Quality of posts and ads are major criteria in my selection process.

I've heard several ladies say that they post very little anymore because they feel uncomfortable with the atmosphere. All it takes is a few bad apples to mess things up, and there's a limit to how that can be avoided. I also think the situation has been a bit better of late. But all each of us can do is to try to improve dialogues on the board by our individual posts.

You don't need to change anything John4229. You're a sweetheart and any lady would be lucky to have you as a client Originally Posted by strawberry skye

Aw, shucks. ::: blushing :::

I should clarify I meant "me" as an example of the typical customer - so to resurrect the question for the OP and thread: What is it you believe that the (generic) customer is doing that is causing the quality of service to degrade? And what should they do differently?

In the past I have occasionally disagreed with Ms. Francesca, this is not one of them.

Some attitudes that have become pronounced have been less than stellar in providing services. At the beginning of my hobby time I wandered upon a young lady that did less than optimal screening, I truly suspect none at all.

She was pretty, friendly, and met the minimum requirements, anything outside of minimum was an upsell. As I was putting on my clothes, she was already on her phone texting the next person in line, or a friend, I let myself out. Very little in the way of ensuring repeat business. Unfairly I think you can chalk it up to youth, unfairly as I have met others within the same age group that exceeded minimum requirements and did not pick up the phone until I was well clear of the door.

As alluded, you find this across a spectrum of businesses not just in personal services.

Some businesses provide the bare minimum to acquire your trade, some provide a high quality of service and maintain fair pricing, others provide high quality and expect a high rate of return for their efforts. This is the free business model.

My absolute favorite provider was a stellar business student and used several marketing and pricing models to determine her best rate of return and found her 'sweet spot'.

She provided an excellent breakdown of her process, from low price/high turnover to high price/low turnover. Her model led her to establish her equitable business model at a mid-price range/moderate turnover and she provided the amount of time necessary for her clients to leave satisfied and weak-kneed. The business owner and client were both well satisfied with the transaction and she maintained a high rate of return customers.

Unfortunately she found a road to religion that did not include her remaining within the hobby.

Long answer to a much shorter question, short answer - Money for Nothing, no tricks for free, pay me, pay me, I yearn to be free (of you, not your wallet)

What I've come to realize is, no matter how much we hide our identities behind handles and pseudo names, we ultimately behave like the people we are in RW. The "art" is really a reflection of how a lady conducts herself in other aspects of her life.

By using Francisca as a standard by which to determine which Providers I see, I have for the most part had a very satisfying hobby life. They are Mature, intelligent, no drama or commitments, fabulous and attentive BCD/GFE and just the right touch of PSE here and there. And their TCB is beyond reproach.

(Yes, mi amor, I'm calling you a role model for hookers. You get it.)

I have only been around for 3 years but I don't have the impression that the hobby is going downhill. My last 3+ encounters were absolutely stellar (see reviews). Yes, there is an occasional mismatch and disappointment (my biggest problem is my crazy RW schedule that makes it difficult to plan ahead so I have to frequently rely on SNATCH where there is slim picking on the weekends).

I love and admire women that are adventurous and sassy and providers I guess are by definition both (and some of them super smart). I guess it also helps to go with the flow and respect her preferences, if she doesn't really like DFK, well, we will just do something else. If she doesn't like PSE-like FF, well to have a hot woman just nibble on your little man is still exciting.

Last not least it pays (literally) not to be a cheapskate and haggle over every Penny (or go overtime). If you want a discount service you will probably get just that.

Thanks, beautiful Ladies, for giving me such an amazing time.

OK, reviewing all this makes me horny again and I will have to come up with some plans for the weekend.....

I have been in this for over 15 years and I agree with the OP. The Hobby Community is devolving. The lack of respect, lack of responsibility. It is rampant.

I can put it into one word... Maturity.

If one has that, then everything else falls into place. Without it. Well, look around. The results are everywhere.

Fran...

You definitely deserve one of these...



Nailed It!

I wish it could be saved. It would take a lot of effort that I doubt most are willing to make.
Does it need to be? In my opinion yes. The hobby would be a much better place for all involved. Although, I doubt it will change.

Personally, I will continue to conduct my business the old school way.
I know that most ladies will criticize me, say I am arrogant, etc..... but maybe someone will actually stop and think.....I have not been available since September, yet I continue to receive 10-15 requests per week.

I have been a provider for 17 years now.
I am 47 years old
I am not young and beautiful
I do not have a perfect body
I do not feel entitled .
I treat my clients as if they were a real life date.
I greatly appreciate the money they spend on me.
I take pleasure in the company of my clients.
I do my best to treat my clients with respect, make them comfortable, make them feel desired.
I only partake in activities I enjoy.
I see this business as a lot more than sex. I sell an experience, an emotional and a physical experience.
My goal is that every client I meet, will always remember the time he spent with me.

My 2 cents.....

Besos,
Francisca Originally Posted by Ms Francisca

Francisca, you should see yourself through my eyes. If you could, you would see a beautiful 47 year old that is very desirable. My best encounters are with providers in their early thirties and older. I like the way think and your reviews are awesome. I'm looking forward to your visit to SA.

Just my 2 cents

I usually don't comment since we're in a hobby-business reined by selfishness and vanity.. so the words I say might bite me later
I personally don't know you but you mentioned some things that caught my eye

...Gents should raise their expectations.
How do I exactly do that?.. Do I specifically tell "you" beforehand all activities I expect in our meeting or do I "try and error" visiting "you" and then tell you in person "my expectations"??....and if you're not willing to meet them, then we both lose, you'll lose the income and I'll lose my work day and a possible "alert" thread on me

...Demand to get the service you are paying for.
We both know this is close to impossible to achieve.. Everything is this business (unfortunately) is YMMV..
In the real business world, I don't pay or receive a discount if I don't get "what I paid for".
If I try to do that in the hobby, I'll be all over the female's section as a thief/cheapo and therefore my hobbyist career will be over soon.

Don't be afraid to write a NO review.
The truth is that if I write a NO review every time I receive less that exceptional service, or not what I expected, or if I don't think the gal deserves what she charges (based in other personal less expensive experiences), I'll have over 50% NO's on my profile and NO ONE will see me
Besides, every time someone writes a NO review of a "well-known or attractive" provider, the whole world comes down on him.. The "knights" come in defense of their favorite gal and make the reviewer look like an asshole/liar/etc..

What happened?
The millennium generation. The attitude that they just deserve. Providers that feel they deserve $ just because they are young and beautiful and the client should be grateful to simply be allowed to be in her presence.
+1.. But unfortunately there's almost 8,000 that lurk on this site so those hot millennials will always have an income

Maturity (perhaps age) is in fact needed to obtain a better overall experience
I just don't think that "maturity and good service" should be an excuse to overcharge / overpay

just a thought..

Ladies...where is the art of providing gone?
It is with the few ladies left that began with asph a fewd and wit "higher end/rate" ladies.

Gents...how are we destyinrog the hobby? Believe it or not, you are. Can you make it better? Gents should raise their expectations. Demand to get the service you are paying for. Don't be afraid to write a NO review. Think with your big head. Spend your hard earned money wisely.


Are there independents, selective, ones who actually screen their men? Those who would like to make this a career? Girls who actually consult others for advice?
The desperate need for money = to very minimal or no screening. There are a very few who actually realize that this is a business, a very lucrative career if managed properly. Women by nature are jealous creatures.....and more so in the hobby. Most providers see other providers as competition, instead of a fellow co-worker. We all want to be the "Star".... the prettiest, best body, best pussy, best ass, etc..... in a providers mind, the one that looks the best, offers the most activities (regardless if they actually enjoy them) will make the most money. Not true, in my opinion.
Originally Posted by Ms Francisca

I usually don't comment since we're in a hobby-business reined by selfishness and vanity.. so the words I say might bite me later
I personally don't know you but you mentioned some things that caught my eye

...Gents should raise their expectations.
How do I exactly do that?.. Do I specifically tell "you" beforehand all activities I expect in our meeting or do I "try and error" visiting "you" and then tell you in person "my expectations"??....and if you're not willing to meet them, then we both lose, you'll lose the income and I'll lose my work day and a possible "alert" thread on me

You comunícate in a professional manner. Get the business part out of the way and enjoy your private time. No need to go into detail regarding what you want/expect, your reviews are very clear as to what your expectations are. When contacting a lady, ask her to read your reviews to make sure she is comfortable with such activities. Also, let her know that you understand if she does not enjoy such activities, and to please be honest with you so neither waste time or money.
A bit of subject..... I noticed in your reviews "Drinking" as an activity (some with minors btw). 1st, I don't think that should be listed as an activity in a review.2nd, I will just be blunt, alcohol will make a young lady in the hobby and out, perform activities she would normally not do.

...Demand to get the service you are paying for.
We both know this is close to impossible to achieve.. Everything is this business (unfortunately) is YMMV..
In the real business world, I don't pay or receive a discount if I don't get "what I paid for".

Everything is not YMMV, not for me anyway. There are activities I do not enjoy, regardless of who you are, what you look like, or how much you are willing to pay. I will not do anything I do not enjoy, period. Unfortunately, this is not the case for all ladies. Especially younger providers, and you prefer the younger ladies. In the real world, a business offers a service. If the customer is not satisfied, they complain and most businesses (a reputable business)will compensate for their mistake. Personally, I feel the hobby is no different. Example..... I had a few "dates" through the years in which my cycle started unexpectedly. If some service was given, I offered a discount. If no physical activities took place, I did not charge. I will also say, that on all ocasiones we just enjoyed each others company talking, and in the end, the client always left a "gift"

If I try to do that in the hobby, I'll be all over the female's section as a thief/cheapo and therefore my hobbyist career will be over soon.


Females do not always take a ladies side.




Don't be afraid to write a NO review.
The truth is that if I write a NO review every time I receive less that exceptional service, or not what I expected, or if I don't think the gal deserves what she charges (based in other personal less expensive experiences), I'll have over 50% NO's on my profile and NO ONE will see me
Besides, every time someone writes a NO review of a "well-known or attractive" provider, the whole world comes down on him.. The "knights" come in defense of their favorite gal and make the reviewer look like an asshole/liar/etc..

True. That is a problem the gentleman need to correct I can only point it out


What happened?
The millennium generation. The attitude that they just deserve. Providers that feel they deserve $ just because they are young and beautiful and the client should be grateful to simply be allowed to be in her presence.
+1.. But unfortunately there's almost 8,000 that lurk on this site so those hot millennials will always have an income

Maturity (perhaps age) is in fact needed to obtain a better overall experience
I just don't think that "maturity and good service" should be an excuse to overcharge / overpay

Why not? In the real world you pay more for better service......

just a thought.. Originally Posted by 4funn

Besos,
Francisca