'This Is Insanity': Democrats Discuss New Plan to Help Pay for Massive Spending Bill

  • oeb11
  • 10-25-2021, 08:26 AM
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahba...gains-n2597964
Source: AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais, File


Senior Democrats confirmed that a proposal to tax billionaires’ unrealized capital gains will likely be included in President Biden’s $2 trillion spending package.
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen explained on CNN Sunday that the proposal, raised by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, would impose an annual tax on unrealized capital gains on liquid assets.
“I wouldn’t call that a wealth tax, but it would help get at capital gains, which are an extraordinarily large part of the incomes of the wealthiest individuals and right now escape taxation until they’re realized,” Yellen said.
The tax is expected to affect people with $1 billion in assets or $100 million in income for three consecutive years, according to a person familiar with the discussions. The idea, for which President Biden recently expressed support after excluding it from his campaign plans and administration agenda, would affect a narrower group of people than the capital-gains changes that have already flopped among congressional Democrats. […]
When compared with the tax-rate increases in the House bill, the emerging Wyden proposal would be significantly more progressive, in that it would raise its money from the very, very rich—likely fewer than 1,000 taxpayers—instead of the merely rich. But House Democrats have questioned whether it makes sense to add a relatively untested idea at this late stage. (WSJ)
The proposal was blasted on social media as sheer lunacy.



See link for relevant tweets of teh insanity of teh DPST party tax schemes.

It is marxism and Communism - pure adn simple

The DPST criminals in DC keep tossing up inisanity ideas - they keep getting shot down - but One day - they may succeed in their Lust for Absolute Power.
Then comes Civil WAR!


Comments from Tiny and Others better versed in the tax structure are solicited.



Buck fiden
From my cold dead hands!
dilbert firestorm's Avatar
i'm cool with that.
The_Waco_Kid's Avatar
i'm cool with that. Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

no, you aren't. tax the uber rich to pay for far left socialism means all the real wealth that fuels Capitalism and Business leaves the US for offshore tax havens and leaves the US which means the US is a broke socialist failure while the rich live in opulence elsewhere.


rethink what you think.
adav8s28's Avatar
no, you aren't. tax the uber rich to pay for far left socialism means all the real wealth that fuels Capitalism and Business leaves the US for offshore tax havens and leaves the US which means the US is a broke socialist failure while the rich live in opulence elsewhere.


rethink what you think. Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid
Welcome back Waco. The forum needs a good mix of democrats and republicans. I don't think Bezos, Zuckerberg or the Testla guy are going anywhere. Heck, Bill Gates gives away more money than he pays in taxes. You don't want the roads and bridges to get fixed?
  • oeb11
  • 10-26-2021, 06:40 AM
DPST party $trillion bills - are not about real infrastructure like roads and bridges - it is a tiny % -

Most of the money goes to fund teh DPST party - and indoctrination of the Peoples in order to gain marxist supremacy.

Huge amounts for CRT and many other Racist, marxist nonsense expenses to bankrupt America


Buck fiden
From my cold dead hands!
Liberal cultists - do you trust alec baldwin with a gun????
Someone has to be adult enough to say, "no, we don't have the money", and not continue to prop up selected businesses' and industries' stock values, and fund bloated pork projects, by printing money that will ultimately hurt just the middle-class downwards. Let's also not pretend Trump wasn't adding trillions of dollars to the national debt either, and is probably still in favor of it, to keep the economic engine running.
rexdutchman's Avatar
Lets see off the top of my head ,,, Hmm all costs will go up , the billionaire already have co that "hides" the money (propublic found Pandora papers ,,how theys hiding money world wide )
Point being you really think they gonna get tax ed that's ridiculous ,,or they will move outa country to avoid tax's
dilbert firestorm's Avatar
no, you aren't. tax the uber rich to pay for far left socialism means all the real wealth that fuels Capitalism and Business leaves the US for offshore tax havens and leaves the US which means the US is a broke socialist failure while the rich live in opulence elsewhere.


rethink what you think. Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid
yeah.. problem is these "rich" socialists are engaging in politcal philanthropy instead of non-political philanthropy. I'm talking about people like Soros and others like him. these people have nothing better to do, so they create mischief by donating to groups whose policies do serious harm to the general public.


billionaires and trillionnaires, how much should we tax them????


Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen explained on CNN Sunday that the proposal, raised by Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, would impose an annual tax on unrealized capital gains on liquid assets. Originally Posted by oeb11
how to wreck the stock market in one easy lesson

and make real estate skyrocket, that is unless the dims definition of liquid is what they want it to be

you want to buy a starter home? nope, this government subsidized concrete apartment building is for you and your descendants from now on

1913- U.S. Income Tax scheme instituted, don't worry it only hits the super wealthy

there is one thing you can take to the fed (you cant take it to the bank if Lenin Award winner and biden nominee Saule Omarova takes over) and that is dimocrats have lost all knowledge of how america became america but they have made up their lies about it and they know how they want to divide up the spoils

see that beautiful garden and those abused workers and older people tending it?

lets take it over and pick every fruit off every tree and lay around and fill our bellies
The_Waco_Kid's Avatar
Welcome back Waco. The forum needs a good mix of democrats and republicans. I don't think Bezos, Zuckerberg or the Testla guy are going anywhere. Heck, Bill Gates gives away more money than he pays in taxes. You don't want the roads and bridges to get fixed? Originally Posted by adav8s28

Gates doesn't give away anything. as you should know, he controls the Gates Foundation and everything they do. as of 2020 the foundation was valued at 50 billion and while his divorce numbers aren't known his net worth is anywhere between 130 to 140 billion.


he didn't have a prenup so while i doubt his ex will get half it's possible.


for now you can make a case Gates is worth 185 billion coming in 3rd with Bezos at 194 billion and Elon Muskrat at 229 billion.


Gates controls his foundation. he can fold it and take back every dime of that 50 billion. why do you think he did it that way to begin with? so he can control what he funds.


he doesn't really give away anything. he funds research and various initiates. all of which he controls and/or approve of, obviously.


now do you really think Joey and his party of wasteful spending are gonna fix anything with some massive pork laden bill? they'll give it away to foreign countries to study cuddlefish and fund abortions.


10 years from now the infrastructure will still be a mess.
  • oeb11
  • 10-26-2021, 11:18 AM
NGIT - thoughtful as always.

TWK - agreed - good Sir!


and - Pearls before teh swine of teh marxist, racist DPST party!
  • Tiny
  • 10-26-2021, 11:43 AM
Comments from Tiny and Others better versed in the tax structure are solicited. Originally Posted by oeb11
Some tax experts believe this is a wealth tax, and as such will have constitutional challenges. The Democrats could pass it and later find out it's not enforceable.

It's not a good idea. First, it's a compliance nightmare. People who pay it will have to value everything they own annually, real estate, collectibles, interests in businesses, etc. I was an executor of a small estate and had to do this and undergo an IRS audit. It was a nightmare. I can't imagine doing it every year. I wouldn't. I'd use the Waco Kid Remedy:

tax the uber rich to pay for far left socialism means all the real wealth that fuels Capitalism and Business leaves the US for offshore tax havens and leaves the US which means the US is a broke socialist failure while the rich live in opulence elsewhere.
rethink what you think. Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid
What he describes in fact was one of the main reasons that European countries have largely abandoned wealth taxes. The wealthy just picked up and moved. The solution of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, in their proposed wealth taxes that they campaigned on, is to take away 40% to 60% of everything the person owns when he or she leaves the country.

The larger problem is that many of these billionaires are going to have to sell off parts of their businesses to pay the tax. Now this might not apply to a Bezos or Musk whose wealth is mostly in public companies with tradeable shares. But the majority of these people own private businesses. The first year, some who have a low tax basis in their businesses will be faced with paying as much as 20% of their net worth in tax, assuming Democrats don't also increase the capital gains tax rate. You're starving the people of capital who are driving the growth of the economy and providing lots and lots of jobs.

Another problem, say someone has a great year and his assets appreciate by 100%. So he sells some things and pays the tax. Then the next year he has a terrible year and the value of his assets falls by 50%. How are you going to handle that?

And another one, you have to hold an asset for 366 days to benefit from the lower long term capital gains tax rate. You have a tax on unrealized gains, held for 365 days. So presumably these people are going to have to pay 40.8% of asset appreciation annually, instead of the lower 23.8% long term capital gains tax rate. Again, that's assuming tax rates don't go up. That's extortionate.

It's a bad idea, although since only 700 or so people would be affected, and given that Senator Sinema, wisely, doesn't want to raise tax rates, this may happen.
  • oeb11
  • 10-26-2021, 12:00 PM
It is a bad idea
that is why the racist, marxist DPST nomenklatura is pursuing it with 'vigahhh"!!
it is what they Do!
  • Tiny
  • 10-26-2021, 12:35 PM
I just read an article on how this idea may be shaping up. Bloomberg is saying the billionaires would be able to pay the first years tax, which will be enormous for most of them, over five years.

The tax on on private assets like real estate, art, private companies, etc., won't be due annually. But apparently the taxpayers will have to go ahead and value these assets and then when they finally sell the assets, pay not only the capital gains tax but also interest expense on the increase in value. The Democrats who are proposing this believe the interest cost will discourage owners of publicly traded companies from privatizing the businesses.

Still a bad idea.
lustylad's Avatar
The Democrats’ Wealth-Tax Mirage

Their last fiscal resort is taxing unrealized capital gains of ‘billionaires.’


By The Editorial Board
Oct. 25, 2021 6:59 pm ET


Democrats are scrambling to finance their spending bill after Arizona Sen. Kyrsten Sinema shot down their plans to raise corporate and individual income-tax rates. Thank you, Senator. But now Democrats are reaching deep into their grab-bag of revenue tricks and may pull out a wealth tax on “billionaires.”

Nancy Pelosi confirmed on CNN’s State of the Union Sunday that the Democrats’ spending bill will probably “have a wealth tax.” Give the Speaker credit for candor. The Biden Administration is pretending that Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden’s plan to tax unrealized capital gains of “billionaires” is something else.

“It’s not a wealth tax, but a tax on unrealized capital gains of exceptionally wealthy individuals,” Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen was at pains to explain. The Treasury gig hasn’t been good for her reputation. But she certainly knows that a tax on unrealized capital gains is a de facto wealth tax, which would be levied on property rather than income.

For example, if Jeff Bezos’s Beverly Hills estate appreciates by 10% in a year, he could be taxed on its increase in value. Ditto for his Amazon stock holdings. Currently such assets are only taxed when they’re sold, which is when the income is realized.

Democrats claim the tax will only hit some 700 uber-rich Americans with more than $1 billion in assets or who have more than $100 million in income for three consecutive years. That’s what they always say.

The first income tax enacted after ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment in 1913 had seven tax brackets with rates from 1% on income over $3,000 ($83,972 in current dollars) to 7% on income exceeding $500,000 ($14 million). You know what rates are now. The alternative minimum tax also only applied initially to the richest Americans, but with time expanded to hit millions in the middle class.

Maybe the only impediment to extending the wealth tax more broadly is the challenge of administering it. Even House Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal acknowledges it would be a logistical nightmare.

Details of Mr. Wyden’s plan haven’t been released, so it’s not clear if the tax would apply to non-financial assets like artwork, jewelry and intellectual property. If so, more Americans could get soaked since the IRS will no doubt inflate the value of non-financial assets, as it often does with the estates of high earners.

A tax court this year ruled that the late entertainer Michael Jackson’s “likeness and image” were worth about $157 million less than the IRS claimed. Will the Wyden plan tax Americans’ likeness and image? How about copyrights and patents? The IRS will have to hire many more auditors to assess the value of property, which will mean more tax litigation.

The Washington Post reports that a summary of the draft plan would allow taxpayers to deduct losses on the value of assets. Does that including deducting the full value of paper losses from stock-market corrections? Don’t count on it. Under current law taxpayers can only deduct $3,000 in net losses from the sale of financial assets in a year.

Complexity is one reason European countries, including France, Germany and Sweden, abandoned broad-based wealth taxes. Many of the rich dodged wealth taxes by exploiting carve-outs or moving. The very rich will find ways to avoid confiscatory taxes, but bad tax policy distorts investment.

Sweden abolished its wealth tax in 2007 following an exodus of capital and business tycoons. France repealed its net wealth tax in 2018, estimating that some 10,000 people with 35 billion euros worth of assets had left in the previous 15 years for tax reasons. The government was losing revenue from income taxes that the wealthy would have paid. Mrs. Pelosi says Democrats’ wealth tax will raise $200 billion to $250 billion over a decade, but that won’t cover even their green energy, electric-vehicle and other climate tax credits.

By the way, a wealth tax is also probably illegal. The Constitution says Congress can only impose “direct taxes” that are “apportioned among the several states” according to population. While the Sixteenth Amendment authorized Congress to tax “incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment,” unrealized capital gains aren’t income.

Democrats figure that’s a fight for another day. Their sole goal now is to come up with some way, any way, to raise enough revenue on paper, however illusory, to fund their spending bill without losing the votes of Sens. Sinema and Joe Manchin. The AP reports that Mr. Manchin is fine with the wealth tax.Democrats will take any refuge in a political storm, even if it’s a mirage.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dem...in-11635197950