China to lift punitive tariffs on US soybeans, pork

We Chinese, we gots 1.3 billion to feed, We Chinese .. we can't feed no Chinese!! we cave in to His Regal Majesty the Lord Emperor Donald, Supreme Ruler of the Multiverse! if we don't We Chinese starve! We Chinese have riots!! We COMMIES get killed!!!!

So We COMMIES bow down to His Regal Majesty the Lord Emperor Donald, Supreme Ruler of the Multiverse!

told you. China can't survive a prolonged trade war. they are feeling the heat already. and then there is .. Hong Kong! Them Chinese in BIG TROUBLE!!!


BAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA



China to lift punitive tariffs on US soybeans, pork

JOE McDONALD

,Associated Press •September 13, 2019


https://news.yahoo.com/china-lift-pu...RfMQRzZWMDc3I-


BEIJING (AP) — China will lift punitive tariffs imposed on U.S. soybeans and pork in a trade war with Washington, a state news agency said Friday, adding to conciliatory gestures by the two sides ahead of negotiations.

China will suspend tariff hikes on soybeans, pork and some other farm goods, the Xinhua News Agency said, citing the Cabinet planning agency and the Commerce Ministry. Beijing "supports domestic companies in purchasing a certain amount of U.S. farm produce," it said, but it gave no details.

The move follows President Donald Trump's decision Wednesday to postpone a planned Oct. 1 tariff hike on Chinese imports to Oct. 15.

Hopes are growing that the two sides might defuse the prolonged dispute that is threatening global economic growth. But there has been no sign of progress on the main issues in their sprawling conflict over trade and technology.

Beijing's decision to restore access to low-cost U.S. soybeans also would help Chinese pig farmers who use soy as animal feed. They are reeling from an epidemic of African swine fever that has caused pork prices to soar.

Phone calls to the commerce and finance ministries weren't answered on Friday, a national holiday in China.

"China has a huge market, and the prospects for importing high-quality U.S. farm produce are broad," Xinhua said. "China hopes the United States will be true to its word, make progress on its commitments and create favorable conditions for bilateral agricultural cooperation."

Beijing imposed 25% tariffs on American farm goods last year in response to Trump's tariff hikes on Chinese goods. Importers were ordered to stop buying soybeans, the biggest U.S. export to China.

China targeted farm goods, hurting rural areas that supported Trump in the 2016 presidential election.

Secretary Steven Mnuchin called Wednesday's tariff delay by Trump a "goodwill gesture to the Chinese."

The Commerce Ministry said Thursday importers were asking American suppliers for prices of soybeans and pork. It gave no indication whether they planned to place orders.


Washington wants Beijing to roll back plans for state-led development of leaders in robotics and other technologies. The United States, Europe and other trading partners argue those violate China's free-trade commitments.

Some American officials worry they will erode U.S. industrial leadership.

Negotiations broke down in May over how to enforce any deal. Beijing says Trump's tariff hikes must be lifted as soon as an agreement takes effect. Washington wants to keep some in place to ensure Chinese compliance.

Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping agreed in June to resume talks but the last round in Shanghai in July produced no progress.

Chinese negotiators are due to fly to Washington in early October to meet with Mnuchin and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer, according to the treasury secretary. He said mid-level U.S. and Chinese officials were due to meet next week or the following week to prepare.

By delaying his tariff hike, Trump allowed for the possibility the talks might make enough progress to avert the increase indefinitely. However, economists say a final agreement is unlikely this year.

Tariff hikes by both sides on billions of dollars of goods have disrupted business for farms and factories in both countries, weighing on global economic growth.

China's announcement Friday also fine-tunes trade penalties to reduce damage to its own economy at a time of slowing growth.

Loss of access to American soybeans pushed up costs for Chinese pig farmers after African swine fever caused the loss of more than 1 million pigs and disrupted supplies of China's staple meat, causing prices to soar.

Authorities have told soybean importers to find new sources but the United States is the biggest and lowest-cost exporter. Buyers are looking to Brazil and Argentina but their output cannot fill the whole gap and their prices are higher.

On Wednesday, Beijing announced exemptions from punitive duties for 16 categories of American products.

The Chinese exemptions apply to raw materials needed by farmers and factories and some medicines.

The Commerce Ministry said Thursday that exemptions were granted if no alternative suppliers could be found or the increase would hurt Chinese industry or the economy.

Sounds to me like the Chinese figured there wasn’t any sense in cutting off their nose to spite their face. Why overpay the Brazilians and Argentines for products they could buy cheaper from Americans? Too bad we’re not similarly enlightened. We’re overpaying the Taiwanese and Koreans for products we could buy cheaper from Chinese. There’s some irony here. The USA is supposed to be the great defender and beneficiary of free markets while the Chinese suffer from central planning. This is not necessarily true any more

Sounds to me like the Chinese figured there wasn’t any sense in cutting off their nose to spite their face. Why overpay the Brazilians and Argentines for products they could buy cheaper from Americans? Too bad we’re not similarly enlightened. We’re overpaying the Taiwanese and Koreans for products we could buy cheaper from Chinese. There’s some irony here. The USA is supposed to be the great defender and beneficiary of free markets while the Chinese suffer from central planning. This is not necessarily true any more Originally Posted by Tiny

still want to say tariffs don't work? and that central planning has been the Achilles heel of socialist planning since ... Karl Marx. what is the US national debt vs. GDP?


US debt to GDP is just over 1:1


GDP is 19.39 Trillion. our debt is 22 trillion. just under 1:1 .. every year we roughly equal debt via GDP.


https://www.google.com/search?source...4dUDCAc&uact=5


https://www.truthinaccounting.org/ab...yAAEgLDIPD_BwE


this is why short term .. it's not an issue. to the US.

now look at China.

their GDP is 12 trillion ..

https://www.google.com/search?ei=-rJ...4dUDCAo&uact=5


what is their debt??


303% of GDP. three times the US. for every year we equal our debt in GDP, it takes China 3 years ...

which mean they fall behind about 66% .. every year while we hold roughly equal.

now who do you think has the more sustainable model .. given debt?


we do. by a huge margin. China is the one spending itself into a meltdown, we are holding steady.

any disagreement on that??


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKCN1UD0KD

And the market takes an 8-day upswing.....so the economy ain't so bad!!!!

And the market takes an 8-day upswing.....so the economy ain't so bad!!!! Originally Posted by LexusLover

oh yeah .. the Trump effect. forgot to mention that!! as Trump expands the GDP .. it lessons the debt to GDP ratio .. while China slides farther behind.

who knew???

Sounds to me like the Chinese figured there wasn’t any sense in cutting off their nose to spite their face. Why overpay the Brazilians and Argentines for products they could buy cheaper from Americans? Too bad we’re not similarly enlightened. We’re overpaying the Taiwanese and Koreans for products we could buy cheaper from Chinese. There’s some irony here. The USA is supposed to be the great defender and beneficiary of free markets while the Chinese suffer from central planning. This is not necessarily true any more Originally Posted by Tiny

Considering the Chinese steal 500 billion per year in intellectual property we need to force them to play fairly.

Considering the Chinese steal 500 billion per year in intellectual property we need to force them to play fairly. Originally Posted by friendly fred

or they will surpass the US and we will never recover that loss.

it's us or them. FUCK THEM!


USA USA USA

Hmm...
Socialist Dim wanna be or, professional business man.
It is that simple a choice. Even if the business guy is a bit PR handicapped.

Hmm...
Even if the business guy is a bit PR handicapped. Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Fucking with people is not a "handicap"!

Look at the crowd he "fucked" all the way to the White House!

And look at this gaggle of LOONS!!!!!!!!!!! Biden is ahead!!!

They are now cannabalizing themselves like they tried to do Trump and FAILED!

Sounds to me like the Chinese figured there wasn’t any sense in cutting off their nose to spite their face. Why overpay the Brazilians and Argentines for products they could buy cheaper from Americans? Too bad we’re not similarly enlightened. We’re overpaying the Taiwanese and Koreans for products we could buy cheaper from Chinese. There’s some irony here. The USA is supposed to be the great defender and beneficiary of free markets while the Chinese suffer from central planning. This is not necessarily true any more Originally Posted by Tiny

Sounds largely like the art of the deal to me.

Trump knows when to push and when to back off. By working with something as simple as a couple dates of 10/1 to 10/15, he made the Chinese realize that they were in a losing position in several areas. Especially the soybean market.

They are beginning to waffle now. Probably took a little longer than Trump wanted, but it's now happening. Trump already got them to back off their latest currency revaluation almost overnight several weeks ago. As Waco noted in the GDP/Debt war the US has the current edge and needs to use that as a cudgel with China at this point. Trump is doing a great job with that.

The irony is in thinking that being a defender of free markets should preclude trying to shut down those that aren't.

still want to say tariffs don't work? and that central planning has been the Achilles heel of socialist planning since ... Karl Marx. what is the US national debt vs. GDP?


US debt to GDP is just over 1:1


GDP is 19.39 Trillion. our debt is 22 trillion. just under 1:1 .. every year we roughly equal debt via GDP.


https://www.google.com/search?source...4dUDCAc&uact=5


https://www.truthinaccounting.org/ab...yAAEgLDIPD_BwE


this is why short term .. it's not an issue. to the US.

now look at China.

their GDP is 12 trillion ..

https://www.google.com/search?ei=-rJ...4dUDCAo&uact=5


what is their debt??


303% of GDP. three times the US. for every year we equal our debt in GDP, it takes China 3 years ...

which mean they fall behind about 66% .. every year while we hold roughly equal.

now who do you think has the more sustainable model .. given debt?


we do. by a huge margin. China is the one spending itself into a meltdown, we are holding steady.

any disagreement on that??


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKCN1UD0KD Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

I'm trying Waco, I'm really trying. But I don't understand how this is relevant to what we posted earlier.

You have some huge misconceptions. The 22 trillion figure you use is for our gross federal debt only. If you add the corporate, personal and state and local government debt to that you end up with a much larger number. Total USA debt as a % of GDP is actually closer to 365% than the 110% you quoted:

https://thesoundingline.com/total-us...-than-in-2008/

I don't know exactly how the soundingline or Reuters calculated total USA debt as % of GDP (365%) and total Chinese debt as a % of GDP (303% from your link) but it's safe to say US total debt as % GDP is higher than or comparable to China's.

Actually if you add in social security, medicare, medicaid and pension liabilities, our number goes way, way up. Your first link shows USA federal government liabilities going from 22 trillion to 118 trillion. AB Bernstein estimates total U.S. debt and entitlement liabilities, not just government, are 1832% of GDP!

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/09/real...-suggests.html

OK, I'm going to try to make your case for you now, although it's not a very good one. The Chinese debt is potentially more sustainable because less of it is owed to foreigners. This btw is one of the main reasons why Japanese public debt has been astronomical but sustainable, because the Japanese own the debt, not foreigners.

Why do foreigners own a lot of our debt? Because we run big trade deficits. Nobody here believes me on this when I've posted about it, but if you were to bring up national savings, the trade deficit would fall. Put another way, if we produce more and consume less, the trade deficit falls.

So why don't we impose tariffs? That would reduce the trade deficit. If our trade deficit goes to a surplus, probably the U.S. net debt held by foreigners would decrease. Well, it doesn't work, at least not so far. Since Trump started imposing tariffs around the first of 2018, our trade deficit if anything has gone up:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...lance-of-trade

You're not seeing a huge migration of factories back to the U.S. Instead U.S. companies, and indirectly consumers, go ahead and pay the tariffs. Or production migrates to other countries, and our cost to buy that production goes up. This is because Vietnam, Malaysia, etc. are initially less efficient, and the companies (often Chinese) that are building new factories there to replace production from Chinese factories have to recover the cost of their investment.

Considering the Chinese steal 500 billion per year in intellectual property we need to force them to play fairly. Originally Posted by friendly fred

I don't know where 500 billion per year comes from, but that's a fair point. The problem is that we're taking the wrong approach if that's our goal. We should be working with other countries to make this happen. Otherwise the Chinese just stop selling to us and sell to them instead. This article addresses your point and is enlightening:

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...ossible-2019-9

We should be working with other countries to make this happen. Originally Posted by Tiny

Not sure what other countries you are talking about in our current worldwide economy.

The EU is still bending over backwards to try and keep sanctions off Iran and negotiate with them because they need the trade with them.

Right now the US is in the unique situation to bring trade balance back and fair to itself worldwide.

I agree there are lots of factors to be considered, but we are at the point of needing to use our cudgel where we can.

The OP is certainly a win on that front and It'll be up to the fortitude of the POTUS to determine whether the hard line is taken or whether the other side is willing to negotiate. Negotiation seems to be eminent.

Not sure what other countries you are talking about in our current worldwide economy.

The EU is still bending over backwards to try and keep sanctions off Iran and negotiate with them because they need the trade with them.

Right now the US is in the unique situation to bring trade balance back and fair to itself worldwide.

I agree there are lots of factors to be considered, but we are at the point of needing to use our cudgel where we can.

The OP is certainly a win on that front and It'll be up to the fortitude of the POTUS to determine whether the hard line is taken or whether the other side is willing to negotiate. Negotiation seems to be eminent. Originally Posted by eccielover

I'd argue that the friendly fire from using the cudgel causes about as much damage to us as to the "enemy." And I don't think China is an enemy, or at least it doesn't need to be.

While yes it looks like negotiations are imminent, that's more because of the POTUS's political considerations than his fortitude. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It's looking like there's a greater than 50% chance the Democratic nominee will be Warren or Sanders. If we're faced with a choice between someone who's an arrogant, narcissistic liar and Satan, I hope the economic winds are blowing in favor of the liar.

Sounds largely like the art of the deal to me.

Trump knows when to push and when to back off. By working with something as simple as a couple dates of 10/1 to 10/15, he made the Chinese realize that they were in a losing position in several areas. Especially the soybean market.

They are beginning to waffle now. Probably took a little longer than Trump wanted, but it's now happening. Trump already got them to back off their latest currency revaluation almost overnight several weeks ago. As Waco noted in the GDP/Debt war the US has the current edge and needs to use that as a cudgel with China at this point. Trump is doing a great job with that.

The irony is in thinking that being a defender of free markets should preclude trying to shut down those that aren't. Originally Posted by eccielover

The Chinese are just finally being logical. If they unilaterally cut their tariffs to 0%, on soybeans, pork and everything else, they'll be better off than they are now.

As to shutting down markets that aren't free, that's not going to happen with China unless we bomb them. Or work with other countries, and noted you believe that's problematic.

Pressure to get them to play fair is definitely worthwhile though. If that happens we'll both be better off. As described in the businessinsider article I linked to above, however, Trump's putting way too much emphasis on trying to reduce the bilateral trade deficit with tariffs and not enough on getting them to play fair.