Catch all thread for off topic posts

OK, given the preference of some posters and the moderators to stay on topic, I'm creating this thread. I'll start with this,

Tiny, you are slipping a little. Comparing the price of all formulations to the price of regular gas (forumulation 87 octane) is an apples to oranges comparison, period. Do you have any link that tracks the price of regular gas at pump for last two years? Does the EIA have a chart that just tracks the price of regular? Until you have that you can't say with a straight face that the EIA is better than gasbuddy. Originally Posted by adav8s28

Adav8s28, you're obfuscating. And you don't understand the definition of the word formulation as it applies to gasoline. What you're trying to say is that it only makes sense to look at a price series for a particular grade (87 octane) of gasoline, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But it doesn't matter. Look at whatever formulation or grade you want. And don't cherry pick dates, like you did with your 18 month graph that started in March, 2021. And you'll find the price of gasoline was up about 50% from the time that Biden took office (January 20, 2021) until when Russia invaded the Ukraine (February 24, 2022). For example, this is for 87 octane grade (regular gasoline) in Texas:

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...TE_STX_DPG&f=W

The price went from about 2.08 when Biden took office to 3.20 when Russia invaded Ukraine.

Do you think Biden was the reason the price went from a to b? Is that what you are trying to say?

Are you falling into that "energy independence" camp?

Let me know if I'm off topic on the off topic thread!

https://www.resources.org/common-res...-independence/

Could the United States ramp up production to become independent, as some lawmakers have argued? No.

For instance: Let’s imagine that the United States increases its oil production to make up for the shortfall from zeroing out Russian imports. This higher production would increase revenues for those producers—that is, if higher production pulls in profits for US producers (a big if!)—but would do very little to insulate consumers from pain at the pump. That’s because the main causes of today’s high gasoline prices are not related to US imports or US production; the prices are driven by global oil markets.

Do you think Biden was the reason the price went from a to b? Is that what you are trying to say?

Are you falling into that "energy independence" camp? Originally Posted by WTF

To recap, you said, "without the war, you do not have that huge spike in oil prices." Adav8s28 came to your defense, saying, "The price of gasoline at the pump did not start to go up until three to four weeks after Putin had Russia invade the Ukraine." You're statement was perhaps a bit misleading, in that the price of oil (WTI sweet) when Putin invaded was $92.81, versus $86.79. And adav8s28's was just wrong.

I do not think that "Biden was the [sole or necessarily the main] reason that the price went from a to b." I do believe that certain positions of certain Democratic Party Senators and Congressmen and the Biden administration that affect the oil and gas refining and E&P businesses lessened their willingness to invest in production and refineries. This did have an effect on supply and the price of gasoline and oil.

Unconventional oil in the U.S. has represented the incremental supply over the last decade, in the worldwide market. Developments in hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling in the U.S. oil patch are a large part of the reason why the oil price fell from around $100 per barrel in 2011 to 2014 down to $40 to $70 per barrel in 2015 to 2020.

https://www.resources.org/common-res...-independence/

Could the United States ramp up production to become independent, as some lawmakers have argued? No.

For instance: Let’s imagine that the United States increases its oil production to make up for the shortfall from zeroing out Russian imports. This higher production would increase revenues for those producers—that is, if higher production pulls in profits for US producers (a big if!)—but would do very little to insulate consumers from pain at the pump. That’s because the main causes of today’s high gasoline prices are not related to US imports or US production; the prices are driven by global oil markets. Originally Posted by WTF

How about expanding that line of reasoning to natural gas WTF? Remember that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren would have done away with hydraulic fracturing if either had been elected president. If that had been happened, we'd be royally fucked, in the same position as Western Europe this winter. Or actually a worse position. We'd be competing with Europe, Japan, etc. for limited supplies of LNG, and insufficient re-gasification capacity to handle the imports.

OK, given the preference of some posters and the moderators to stay on topic, I'm creating this thread. I'll start with this,



Adav8s28, you're obfuscating. And you don't understand the definition of the word formulation as it applies to gasoline. What you're trying to say is that it only makes sense to look at a price series for a particular grade (87 octane) of gasoline, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But it doesn't matter. Look at whatever formulation or grade you want. And don't cherry pick dates, like you did with your 18 month graph that started in March, 2021. And you'll find the price of gasoline was up about 50% from the time that Biden took office (January 20, 2021) until when Russia invaded the Ukraine (February 24, 2022). For example, this is for 87 octane grade (regular gasoline) in Texas:

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...TE_STX_DPG&f=W

The price went from about 2.08 when Biden took office to 3.20 when Russia invaded Ukraine. Originally Posted by Tiny

Tiny, I am dissapointed in you. The price of 93 octane will always be higher than the price of 87 octane at the pump. Of course you have to compare grade to grade. That is if you want to compare apples to apples.

I agree with your number from the AIE bar chart that the price of 87 octane went from $2.08 to $3.20 from Jan 20, 2021 to Feb 20, 2022. So under Biden before Russia invaded the Ukraine the price of regular gas (in conventional areas) increased $1.12. Look what happened after the Russia invaded the Ukraine. In 4 months the price of 87 octane increased from $3.20 to $4.62 a delta of $1.42. Which means the price of 87 octane went up much faster after Russia invaded the Ukraine. Thus the slope of the curve in the EIA chart just like in the gasbuddy.com chart is very steep in those 4 months. Case closed Tiny, you don't win this one. This is using your source of data.

How about expanding that line of reasoning to natural gas WTF? Remember that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren would have done away with hydraulic fracturing if either had been elected president. If that had been happened, we'd be royally fucked, in the same position as Western Europe this winter. Or actually a worse position. We'd be competing with Europe, Japan, etc. for limited supplies of LNG, and insufficient re-gasification capacity to handle the imports. Originally Posted by Tiny

Trump promised do away with the national debt!!!!...you need to quit regurgitating campaign promises and get on the Realpolitik Train!

If you actually took a second to read the article, you'd know that they've expanded that line of reasoning out to battery minerals too.

You need to relax your mind from Reagan Era partisan dipshitery

Tiny, I am dissapointed in you. The price of 93 octane will always be higher than the price of 87 octane at pump. Of course you have to compare grade to grade. Originally Posted by adav8s28

???? You're implying that I wasn't comparing apples to apples when I used an average price for gasoline in the USA? For all grades and formulations?

I agree with your number from the AIE bar chart that the price of 87 octane went from $2.08 to $3.20 from Jan 20, 2021 to Feb 20, 2022. So under Biden before Russia invaded the Ukraine the price of regular gas (in conventional areas) increased $1.12. Look what happened after the Russia invaded the Ukraine. In 4 months the price of 87 octane increased from $3.20 to $4.62 a delta of $1.42. Which means the price of 87 octane went up much faster after Russia invaded the Ukraine. Thus the slope of the curve in the EIA chart just like in the gasbuddy.com chart is very steep in those 4 months. Case closed Tiny, you don't win this one. This is using your source of data. Originally Posted by adav8s28

I could have sworn you wrote, "The price of gasoline at the pump did not start to go up until three to four weeks after Putin had Russia invade the Ukraine."

But I guess what you actually said was, "the price of gasoline increased in absolute terms more from the date Russia invaded Ukraine to its peak on 6/20/2022 than it did from the date Biden took office until the date Russia invaded Ukraine. In percentage terms it increased a bit less." Sorry I must have missed that part.

Yes, you gave me the same kind of beating that you gave Texas Contrarian some time back on a couple of economic issues.

Seriously, you could kick my ass, and perhaps TC's, in a discussion about COVID. But on energy and economics you haven't, even though you thought you did. You're at a disadvantage, as you haven't worked with those every day.

???? You're implying that I wasn't comparing apples to apples when I used an average price for gasoline in the USA? For all grades and formulations?

Not if you are trying to compare the price of all formulations to the price of 87 octane (regular gas). Your first EIA graph was a graph of all formulations. The gassbuddy.com chart was for regular gas (87 octane). You can't compare those two charts with a straight face.

I could have sworn you wrote, "The price of gasoline at the pump did not start to go up until three to four weeks after Putin had Russia invade the Ukraine."

But I guess what you actually said was, "the price of gasoline increased in absolute terms more from the date Russia invaded Ukraine to its peak on 6/20/2022 than it did from the date Biden took office until the date Russia invaded Ukraine. In percentage terms it increased a bit less." Sorry I must have missed that part.

That is exactly what I meant. You are forgiven. The average driver is not going to notice the price of gasoline going up $1.20 over a 12 month period. You will notice if it goes up $1.42 in a 4 month period.

Yes, you gave me the same kind of beating that you gave Texas Contrarian some time back on a couple of economic issues.

I am not finished with TC yet. Both he and Nevergiveitathought misspoke on the GM bailout. I will prove that soon.

Seriously, you could kick my ass, and perhaps TC's, in a discussion about COVID. But on energy and economics you haven't, even though you thought you did. You're at a disadvantage, as you haven't worked with those every day

That's true i don't work with energy everyday. However, I did have economics in college and I can read a bar or line graph.

. Originally Posted by Tiny

You posted that you would take the EIA chart over the gasbuddy.com chart. When you are talking about the price of 87 octane (regular gas) over the same time period, both graphs have almost the same information. The gasbuddy.com chart i think is 20 cents higher for any given time period. The data probably includes more than just coventional areas like the EIA charts. The line charts in both graphs for regular gas are almost identical.

So why are you still arguing over whether to use an average price for 87 octane gasoline or for all grades and accusing me of some kind of deception? I never took a price for one of the series on a particular date and compared it to the price of the other series on a particular date. I compared apples to apples.

You correctly compared apples to apples...but what you should be comparing is a Rooster to a Sunrise!

This isn't a Biden caused problem....or Trump. No matter who was President, we'd be having this same inflationary problem.

You correctly compared apples to apples...but what you should be comparing is a Rooster to a Sunrise!

This isn't a Biden caused problem....or Trump. No matter who was President, we'd be having this same inflationary problem. Originally Posted by WTF

Given inaction by the Fed and supply chain problems, yeah, we were going to have inflation. But the American Rescue Plan supercharged it.

You wish to discuss a topic that currently isn't being discussed, or wish to interject a comment that isn't on topic.

Then start a New Thread and discuss it there.

That way you remain on topic.

Thread Closed