So you think Ted Cruz is crazy...

My question is a simple one. How will adding more to the below figure benefit the country as a whole? At what point does the piece of straw break the camels back?

Quantifying the National Debt


* As of September 3, 2013, the official debt of the United States government is $16.7 trillion ($16,738,618,787,875).[1] This amounts to:

• $52,909 for every person living in the U.S.[2]
• $138,240 for every household in the U.S.[3]
• 100% of the U.S. gross domestic product.[4]
• 526% of annual federal revenues.[5]

* Publicly traded companies are legally required to account for "explicit" and "implicit" future obligations such as employee pensions and retirement benefits.[6] [7] [8] The federal budget, which is the "federal government's primary financial planning and control tool," is not bound by this rule.[9] [10]

* At the close of the federal government's 2012 fiscal year (September 30, 2012), the federal government had roughly:

• $7.5 trillion ($7,517,000,000,000) in liabilities that are not accounted for in the national debt, such as federal employee retirement benefits, accounts payable, and environmental/disposal liabilities.[11]
• $21.6 trillion ($21,622,000,000,000) in obligations for current Social Security participants above and beyond projected revenues from their payroll and benefit taxes, certain transfers from the general fund of the U.S. Treasury, and assets of the Social Security trust fund.[12]
• $27.0 trillion ($27,000,000,000,000) in obligations for current Medicare participants above and beyond projected revenues from their payroll taxes, benefit taxes, premium payments, and assets of the Medicare trust fund.[13]

* The figures above are determined in a manner that approximates how publicly traded companies are required to calculate their liabilities and obligations.[14] [15] [16] The obligations for Social Security and Medicare represent how much money must be immediately placed in interest-bearing investments to cover the projected shortfalls between dedicated revenues and expenditures for all current participants in these programs (both taxpayers and beneficiaries).[17] [18] [19]

* Combining the figures above with the national debt and subtracting the value of federal assets, the federal government had about $67.7 trillion ($67,726,000,000,000) in debts, liabilities, and unfinanced obligations for current Social Security and Medicare participants at the close of its 2012 fiscal year.[20]

* This $67.7 trillion shortfall is 105% of the combined net worth of all U.S. households and nonprofit organizations, including all assets in savings, real estate, corporate stocks, private businesses, and consumer durable goods such as automobiles.[21] [22]

* This shortfall equates to:

• $215,311 for every person living in the U.S.[23]
• $559,331 for every household in the U.S.[24]
• 428% of the U.S. gross domestic product.[25]
• 2,513% of annual federal revenues.[26]

* These figures do not account for the future costs implied by any current policies except those of the Social Security and Medicare programs.[27]

* These figures are contingent upon the continuance of current federal law and "a wide range of complex assumptions" made by federal agencies."[28] Regarding this:
• Social Security's 2012 annual report states that "significant uncertainty" surrounds the "best estimates" of future circumstances.[29]
• Medicare's 2012 annual report states that the program's financial projections "do not represent a reasonable expectation for actual program operations in either the short range … or the long range" because:

- "Current law would require a physician fee reduction of an estimated 30.9 percent on January 1, 2013—an implausible expectation."- The Affordable Care Act (a.k.a. Obamacare) eventually reduces "Medicare prices for hospital, skilled nursing facility, home health, hospice, ambulatory surgical center, diagnostic laboratory, and many other services" to "less than half of their level under the prior law. …. Well before that point, Congress would have to intervene to prevent the withdrawal of providers from the Medicare market and the severe problems with beneficiary access to care that would result. … [This] would lead to substantially higher costs for Medicare in the long range than those projected under current law."[30]

your answer

The debt limit is the total amount of money that the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and other payments. The debt limit does not authorize new spending commitments. It simply allows the government to finance existing legal obligations that Congresses and presidents of both parties have made in the past.
Failing to increase the debt limit would have catastrophic economic consequences. It would cause the government to default on its legal obligations – an unprecedented event in American history. That would precipitate another financial crisis and threaten the jobs and savings of everyday Americans – putting the United States right back in a deep economic hole, just as the country is recovering from the recent recession.


(do your stuff Iffy)

Yup! Thanks for posting THE FACTS.

Rafael IS crazy, and so is his daddy DeLay

your answer

The debt limit is the total amount of money that the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and other payments. The debt limit does not authorize new spending commitments. It simply allows the government to finance existing legal obligations that Congresses and presidents of both parties have made in the past.
Failing to increase the debt limit would have catastrophic economic consequences. It would cause the government to default on its legal obligations – an unprecedented event in American history. That would precipitate another financial crisis and threaten the jobs and savings of everyday Americans – putting the United States right back in a deep economic hole, just as the country is recovering from the recent recession.


(do your stuff Iffy) Originally Posted by CJ7

What call you a plagiarizer? OK, You are a plagiarizer.

IFFYS sweet ass nonsense nonwithstanding, Cruz is so crazy that only the angriest White folk in America believe he's not.

What call you a plagiarizer? OK, You are a plagiarizer. Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

no provide a link ... you're my loyal assistant aren't you?

your answer

The debt limit is the total amount of money that the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits) Originally Posted by CJ7

But you are wrong, it does not include Social Security or Medicare benefits.

But you are wrong, it does not include Social Security or Medicare benefits. Originally Posted by SAUrbanAnimal

but YOU are wrong ( text from my post came from here))


http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/...debtlimit.aspx




blame Iffy for not posting a link before you made an idiot out of yourself

That applies only for benefits owed in the current fiscal year which runs to Sept 30, 2014.

That applies only for benefits owed in the current fiscal year which runs to Sept 30, 2014. Originally Posted by SAUrbanAnimal

sure it does, just like the article said, existing legal obligations


shit like interest rates for Chinese loans come to mind too ... do you plan to take up a collection NEXT year and pay our debts or just WELCH on them republican style?

You are making my point CJ...and next fiscal year even more obligations will be do. We are able to tread water in the current economic situation because interest rates are artificially low. If you want to include those obligations promised in future fiscal years, like any publicly traded company is required to, the national debt is closer to $67 trillion. How much is enough??

You are making my point CJ...and next fiscal year even more obligations will be do. We are able to tread water in the current economic situation because interest rates are artificially low. If you want to include those obligations promised in future fiscal years, like any publicly traded company is required to, the national debt is closer to $67 trillion. How much is enough?? Originally Posted by SAUrbanAnimal

Im trying to get you to make yours ... so where do we get the $$ to keep this country afloat if we walk away from our legal debts??? simple question, and fair.


if this country has any intention of survival, in
the the global economy, its not quite as easy as just washing our hands of our obligations and walking off, but it does sound STUDLY to republicans to say we want to.

A good place to start would be to stop spending more then we take in.

A good place to start would be to stop spending more then we take in. Originally Posted by SAUrbanAnimal

you're dismissed