Freaking Out Over Bareback

In response to what some other posters were saying, I posted what is written below, in the Dallas ISO forum.

The thread was started by a guy who was asking about "100% GFE" which was immediately misunderstood to be a request for condomless intercourse. Folks came unglued. Which is typical on the Dallas board.

This may be a bigger issue on the Dallas board than elsewhere (I don't get out much) but I was hoping that my little disquisition would stimulate some conversation (even a thoughtful rebuttal or two) yet it seems to have had the opposite effect.

So, at the risk of seeming self-serving, I'm putting it out here to see if anyone wants to talk about it. One note: I'm not a physician and may not be spot-on with every fact pertaining to epidemiology. Please correct any errors of that sort if you are qualified, but don't neglect the larger point, which I don't think will change.

Why does everyone make such a BIG DEAL about a thread like this? I would expect a little more sophistication from people who consider sex important enough to be here.

Ladies, you are sexual service professionals -- why do you get hysterical when some guy mentions intercourse without a condom? "He said 100% GFE and that can easily mean BBFS?" Take a chill pill, little sister! He didn't even ASK for BB!

GFE means something...it's a technical term. There is some debate about what exactly it encompasses, but it definitely does not mean BBFS. Putting 100% in front of it doesn't change that, does it? The only good GFE is 100% GFE.

But even if he were genuinely insinuating that he wanted BB it just isn't necessary to let that set off a hysterical posting episode.

And gentlemen, what motivates you to get so agitated about this subject? There's always a gaggle who respond to something like this with, "Dumb sumbitch must have a DEATH WISH!!!" Come on guys.

If we confine the conversation to the deadly one, AIDS, you can do a lot of bareback and not catch it. [And, today, if you live in the US or some other countries, AIDS is a serious but manageable illness, and not necessary deadly.]

Don't have sex with anyone in a Third World country, don't have sex with inner-city teenagers, don't have sex with drug addicts (which rules out street walkers, ipso facto) or if you have broken skin on your penis, and don't take it up the ass from another man -- that's about it, guys. Follow those easy guidelines and your risk is minimal.

But it still goes up.

If you want zero risk of catching a sexually transmitted disease, be monogamous or celibate -- any other road and you're voluntarily assuming a personal risk of infection.

Everybody here engages in behavior that places themselves at a higher risk for STD's than is necessary. If you know 6 hobbyists, you know 3 who have barebacked, and at least one of them does it regularly. Get over it. Those who do may have chosen to increase their risk somewhat, but you're still on the same side of the fence as they are. You're a risk-taker with respect to STD's and so is he, so don't be so pompous.

Do you DFK? Enjoy DATY? Love a sloppy BBBJ? I belive that a guy who did nothing but bareback "wisely" has a much lower chance of contracting AIDS than you do of getting herpes. Will it kill ya? No, but you'll have it (and it will alter your sex life) until they put you in the ground. Don't be so pompous, risk taker.

Gentlemen (all fully grown), you get to decide how you're going to conduct yourselves sexually. Don't want to bareback? Good for you. Conduct yourself accordingly, but don't go all to pieces at the hint that some guys do it. Considering all STD's (and not just AIDS) you may be taking higher risks than they are.

Ladies, (professionals all) you get to decide how you're going to conduct yourselves with your clients. Not gonna bareback? Good decision all around, and especially because it's easier for you to catch AIDS than it is for your male partner.

But it really isn't necessary, at the first hint of BBFS, to come in here squealing about how you'd never do it and they must be crazy. If you're simply silent no one will assume that you partake.

Your decision to be a sex-worker places you at a much higher risk, statistically, of contracting an STD, compared to a monogamous woman. And even though you don't BB most people on the street would ask you, "How can you be so CRAZY?!!" (And not without some justification.) I think you ought to reflect on that before you start going "EEEK!" about other risky practices.

I [am] just trying to say that to the extent that "BBFS Threads" go the way of lofty protestestations and hand-wringing by other voluntarily STD risk takers, they become ridiculous.


P.S. I mean no personal offense or disrespect to anyone on this thread, even if I used you as an example. Just making a case for adult posting behavior.

That's it. If nobody here wants to talk about it, that's okay, too.

Wow someone has finally said it! Finally someone has called out all the "Death wishers" the people who swear that their the safe ones out there. Everyone in this hobby opens themselves up to a STD me and you included. But there will always be some who claim there safe, wouldn't do that, get tested every week (even though they use condoms), and will scream stay away from these guys! Even though they themselves wouldn't have sex without a condom. I think it silly to think that a guy uses a condom in his private life all the time and vice versa with a provider

For the most part I've tried to avoid the BB threads simply because nothing that is going to be said is going to change my mind on the issue.

Being in the medical field, we use the term "Universal Precautions", which basically means assume EVERYBODY has something that you can catch whether it be an STD or some other really nasty bug. ALWAYS use gloves, face shields or masks, and protective gowns, dispose of the items properly so it's not spread to other areas of the hospital.

This occupation (hobby) is not that different, we neither want to catch nor spread any type of contagion and therefore must (should) abide by the Universal Precaution assumptions. To the best of our ability of course (not saying we should answer the door in full surgical gear), but be cautious and aware and take the necessary before and after preventative measures.

I suppose I'll take a different stance on the discussion. I think most of the ladies that jump onto a BB thread with righteous anger have a different motive than you're thinking. They aren't simply trying to get all high and mighty on you, they are fighting back. BB requests are getting alarmingly frequent. Some of the ladies would just like you gentlemen to understand that our position on BBFS is not going to change, no matter how many times it is brought up and people try to defend the activity.

Sure, I'm taking risks anyway, just by being in this industry. But I choose how much risk I am comfortable with, and so do the other ladies. They know there are ladies that offer BBFS, and feel like it is becoming more and more prevalent, considering how often it is requested these days. What can they do? They can't go track the BB ladies down and have an intervention. They can't refuse to see gentlemen who have seen them (well, I suppose they could, but that just seems like an effort in futility to me). So they jump up and down. Make a big deal out of it. You may not appreciate it, but frankly they aren't doing it for you. They are doing it for the new guys. The ones that come on this board and see it being talked about openly, and then obviously assume that it is standard practice. It is not. And the ladies don't want that thought to cross their minds. If they did as you ask, and just ignore the BB threads and references, how would these guys know that BB is such a horrible thought to most of us ladies? All they would see is you guys talking about it (however you wished) and us saying nothing. Could easily be mistaken for consent, don't you think? Not everything on this board is for your personal benefit. I'm sure if these "hysterical" ladies can get just ONE new guy to realize "Oh, okay, so they really don't like that", they will feel all the screaming and ranting was worth it. Just saying.

These ladies have every right to jump up and down and make as big a deal out of it as they wish. If you don't like it, what's so hard about moving to the next thread? This is their business, their daily reality, their lifeline, and very real danger is always lurking. This isn't a once or twice a week/month thing for us like most of you gentlemen, it's every day. Why would you begrudge us the chance to minimize one risk? To make it known that we are here for you for many things, but BB is not one of them? I'm sorry if the occassional freak-out about BB from a lady on a board bugs you, but the constant requests for such activities bugs the hell out of us, too. Unfortunately, we can't just jump on this board and tell you all to "chill out". Well, we could, but I doubt it would do much good, as you can see.

Anyway, try not to let it bother you too much, hmm? The ladies are doing what they feel necessary to sleep in peace. It doesn't harm you, does it? Annoy you, maybe, but really I think that's an acceptable consequence.

If any of this message seemed hostile, I apologize, it wasn't meant to be. Sometimes it is hard to express emotion in writing. So let me just assure you this was written calmly and reflectively, not angrily or sarcastically.

Wow, that traci brooks is such a hard ass!

Maybe if you were in our shoes and got the endless emails and phone calls from guys trying to talk us into it you might feel differently. Or, if you were put in a vulnerable position of a man much bigger and stronger than you trying to slip it off during doggie. Maybe, then you might understand if we are a little defensive and fed up with the whole thing.

I would love to do an experiment.......give a hobbiest a providers phone for one day. Put a voice altering device that would make him sound like a woman. Answer that phone for one day after we have just put out heavy advertising. I think it would be a real eye opener. Of course, it can't happen because it would compromise the privacy for the callers, but it would sure be interesting

Wow, that traci brooks is such a hard ass! Originally Posted by CanDo01

Looks perfect to me, nice and soft.

The bottom line is, you can only have control over what you choose to do not what anyone else does. Pick your choice and do not compromise yourself to any extent.....

Wow another BBFS thread. I must have thought wrong about the prevalence of BBFS activity within the hobby. Either that or there is a very small, but a very vocal minority who want to see BBFS become more acceptable within the bobby. I won't be completely naive on this matter. Obviously there is a niche segment of the hobby that engages in BBFS, and it is not just hobbyists who frequent SWs. I'm sure there are websites/internet boards out there for providers and hobbyists who participate in this activity. That's fine. If there are those who want to do BBFS, then do it, BUT please don't ask the rest of the hobby to a) acknowledge your behavior as mainstream b) join in your behavior, and c) justify your activities. For clients wishing BBFS, don't automatically expect a provider to consider it. For BBFS providers, don't expect other providers to approve of your activities. Personally, I'd like to see this remain in 2 separate worlds with those 2 worlds never meeting. Again, probably naive on my part.

Ladies, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your perspectives on this. You've enlightened me. I'm embarrassed I didn't put that together myself.

Brandy, how nice to see you! (Do you remember me? You don't have to answer that, it's been a while. I do remember you. ) As a health professional who also dabbles in sex work, your approach is impeccable.

Traci and Miss Bliss, you know I've talked shop once or twice with ladies I've been close to (never naming names**) and have, indeed, been amazed at what goes in on in your world. Some tales were very touching (like the impotent fella who would pay 500 just to be held and talked to) and sometimes it was just flabbergasting -- like the stuff you're telling about. Do not envy you that.

I get it. And both of you ladies make your point so well. Traci, I know you post on the Dallas board, and you're an exception there (although I see you retain the famous Dallas feistiness) but so much of what seems to show up on those BB threads is too high volume/high drama to make a sensible impression, at least on me.

I'm obviously not as aware as the ladies are of the effects of so many new (and younger?) hobbyists who might be expecting BB, or providers who are providing it. It's a big pool but it's not infinite, and "we all swim in it", as they say. Frankly, you are on the front line for "protecting our shores."

Thanks for the talking to.

Traci, I do know that this place is not here just for my enjoyment. And since I do sometimes advocate for certain standards of behavior and participation, I'm sensitive to getting called on that. If you knew the things that cross my mind you might commend me on my restraint, rather than calling me on pushing for what makes this place most enjoyable for me. But...I understand what you're saying.

** Actually Bailey O used to be bad about putting names in stories. All you Dallas/SA/OK guys who used to see her, I've had the dirt on ya for years.

P.S. cpalmson, I was like you -- didn't know it was so frequently requested or expected. And yeah, I'm afraid that keeping the worlds apart is not gonna happen. There are niches that are unique enough not to merge, but fucking is pretty much fucking. One more reason to stick with ladies you know are careful, as well as such things can be known.

If you knew the things that cross my mind you might commend me on my restraint Originally Posted by jfred

I'm sure that statement is true for most of us, love. I know it is for me. I apologize if I hit a sore spot for you. I didn't mean it as harshly as it might have sounded.

I would love to do an experiment.......give a hobbiest a providers phone for one day. Put a voice altering device that would make him sound like a woman. Answer that phone for one day after we have just put out heavy advertising. I think it would be a real eye opener. Of course, it can't happen because it would compromise the privacy for the callers, but it would sure be interesting Originally Posted by Bliss

Or just be the SO of a provider! I have been one (long term) and can concur with Bliss on what blooming idiots some guys are on the phone/email/text.

Jfred wow what are you trying to say! This is getting good. Continue please continue. Is there some people who say one thing and do another. I too have witness first hand providers offering what they called "extended girlfriend" which was bareback. Did I take it no, did I have the money for it at the time no. If I would have would I done it, I can't really answer that. I would have like to have said no but in the moment it's hard to say. I'm glad I didn't but in the middle of things the little head does a lot of thinging for me.


I have found on bp that there are a lot of "Weekend providers" meaning girl who find themselves in a money crunch and need fast cash and they would do 5-6 guys on a weekend BB and make 2 grand right fast. They advertise themselves cheap but when you arrive they start telling you the full menu. And if you refuse you get crappy service and out the door you go. I've ran into them and so have most other guys. There the ones with the smoking hot body girl next door look.


You never know about anyone these days. But If a girl would advertise BBFS on bp she would be rich and no one would admit it

I thought that might be you jfred! Good lord it's been years! Didn't want to say anything in case I was wrong LOL.

EH wrote a very good basic, kinda in your face article regarding BBFS which I included in my newsletter/ezine (link to Brandy's Bedroom Issue Three is in this forum under It's August 1st) which is really a good read. It's titled "The BoneHeads Guide to Killing Your Local Market" and if you haven't read it yet, you should - at least for the giggles

I tend to thinck that a few of the most vocal "BBFS is just gross" posters doth protest too much.