The Indie review forum seems to get some scrutiny and we see ladies caught having a 2nd account as a male in order to write reviews, bump reviews and access additional info she does not have access to. It is the access to ROS as well as Locker Room that usually trips them up...... But I believe it is something the community stays aware of and catches more often.
The bulk of local business seems to go to the Indies.
Most Agency business is traditionally traveling guys in town on business but every forum has a group of local guys that are solid Agency guys.
Indies get caught all the time but we don't see the issue typically in the Agency forums.....
I don't believe it's not happening... Just that no one is really looking at or caring about it.
I've been too busy to post much lately because I've been reading reviews and looking at a few posters and patterns that kind of jump out and it's my opinion that at least one Agency owner is writing reviews of his girls as well as bumping those reviews and has been doing it for a long time......I believe he is using at least 6 different accounts and that's just what I've noticed in the few days I've been looking at it.
If so..... Why doesn't staff or others care?
A couple of theories are
a) there are not enough local guys in Austin that see Agency girls to care much about it. It really is a business model that caters to visitors.
b) because it's a guy doing it and he can easily gain access to ROS and the Locker room anyway and that's the only reason most really care about.
c) the board has a huge audience for reviews and a steady stream of new content drives view counts so legit or fake, if the girl actually exists working for the Agency it has value to the board....
That last one is apparent in my opinion when a guy writes a review in the Indy Section and a lady calls it out as fake and with nothing more than he said she said to go on the review is allowed to stand.
Is there equality in how staff handles indies and agencies? Do men having multiple accounts here get off easier then the ladies when caught?
If it were found that 1 guy using several multiple handles fabricated reviews and bumped them to manipulate placement of his girls would anyone care?
What if it was a female handler of a few girls doing the same thing?
- Whispers
- 04-23-2015, 02:23 AM
- rockerrick
- 04-23-2015, 06:02 AM
Often wondered that myself. I've seen fakes called in Independent, SC, and Other reviews, but never one in Agency.
- Still Looking
- 04-23-2015, 06:35 AM
For clarification purposes.... the word "agency" has more than one meaning attached to it.
Agency #1: Guy or Gal that schedules for providers. Gets a cut. Supplies the in call. Knows the providers.
Agency #2: All the girls are Indy. They come and go. Mostly a referral system. They never meet. Everything is done by email, phone and payment is by Green Dot etc. If something goes wrong they could care less.
Agency #3: Pimp running girls, scheduling and taking his due.
Agency #1: Guy or Gal that schedules for providers. Gets a cut. Supplies the in call. Knows the providers.
Agency #2: All the girls are Indy. They come and go. Mostly a referral system. They never meet. Everything is done by email, phone and payment is by Green Dot etc. If something goes wrong they could care less.
Agency #3: Pimp running girls, scheduling and taking his due.
- Bob McV
- 04-23-2015, 08:28 AM
The Indie review forum seems to get some scrutiny and we see ladies caught having a 2nd account as a male in order to write reviews, bump reviews and access additional info she does not have access to. It is the access to ROS as well as Locker Room that usually trips them up...... But I believe it is something the community stays aware of and catches more often.You ask 4 questions:
The bulk of local business seems to go to the Indies.
Most Agency business is traditionally traveling guys in town on business but every forum has a group of local guys that are solid Agency guys.
Indies get caught all the time but we don't see the issue typically in the Agency forums.....
I don't believe it's not happening... Just that no one is really looking at or caring about it.
I've been too busy to post much lately because I've been reading reviews and looking at a few posters and patterns that kind of jump out and it's my opinion that at least one Agency owner is writing reviews of his girls as well as bumping those reviews and has been doing it for a long time......I believe he is using at least 6 different accounts and that's just what I've noticed in the few days I've been looking at it.
If so..... Why doesn't staff or others care?
A couple of theories are
a) there are not enough local guys in Austin that see Agency girls to care much about it. It really is a business model that caters to visitors.
b) because it's a guy doing it and he can easily gain access to ROS and the Locker room anyway and that's the only reason most really care about.
c) the board has a huge audience for reviews and a steady stream of new content drives view counts so legit or fake, if the girl actually exists working for the Agency it has value to the board....
That last one is apparent in my opinion when a guy writes a review in the Indy Section and a lady calls it out as fake and with nothing more than he said she said to go on the review is allowed to stand.
Is there equality in how staff handles indies and agencies? Do men having multiple accounts here get off easier then the ladies when caught?
If it were found that 1 guy using several multiple handles fabricated reviews and bumped them to manipulate placement of his girls would anyone care?
What if it was a female handler of a few girls doing the same thing? Originally Posted by Whispers
1.) How would we know? The operators of the board have a 0% transparency policy for how, when, why, any guideline is enforced.
2.) see above.
3.) I am sure someone would care, some might even care enough to post about it.
4.) see 1 above.
I am curious why are you making a public post asking how and why the board operators are enforcing their guidelines? Would it not be better to ask them directly? Or are answering these questions not your goal? If not then what is your goal?
- rockerrick
- 04-23-2015, 08:36 AM
Public accountability?
- ck1942
- 04-23-2015, 09:49 AM
Lets put it this way:
A brand new guy's first review is about an agency provider. I think few mongers will argue with my perspective that "veteran hobbyists" will give that agency review relatively little credence. And, unless solid data exists that the agency is a "female group, managed by a veteran female) it will be tough to give much if any credence to the newbie's review.
In fact, veterans not only see the newbie credence issue with agency providers but with BP providers as well.
imo, when a veteran monger visits that agency provider and has negative results, the veteran's credence will be very much higher than the newbie's. And that may well reflect on the entire agency stable.
When a newbie crafts reviews only of (apparent male operated) agency ladies, my inclination is to shout Quack! but I don't. And no newbie will win an argument with me that it is much easier to play with (male operated) agency ladies than truly independent providers. While it may well be easier to book with an agency, especially for certain types of travelers.
That said, I won't argue that, generally speaking, well established agencies seem to have some hot (and well reviewed by veteran mongers) providers. I just don't go there very often for my own reasons and rationales.
= = = = =
As far as the "sanctity" and security of the male only forums is concerned, it has also been my experience that nothing stays sacred there very long if at all, since many WKs feel an absolute need to share data with females -- and with males who don't have access.
A brand new guy's first review is about an agency provider. I think few mongers will argue with my perspective that "veteran hobbyists" will give that agency review relatively little credence. And, unless solid data exists that the agency is a "female group, managed by a veteran female) it will be tough to give much if any credence to the newbie's review.
In fact, veterans not only see the newbie credence issue with agency providers but with BP providers as well.
imo, when a veteran monger visits that agency provider and has negative results, the veteran's credence will be very much higher than the newbie's. And that may well reflect on the entire agency stable.
When a newbie crafts reviews only of (apparent male operated) agency ladies, my inclination is to shout Quack! but I don't. And no newbie will win an argument with me that it is much easier to play with (male operated) agency ladies than truly independent providers. While it may well be easier to book with an agency, especially for certain types of travelers.
That said, I won't argue that, generally speaking, well established agencies seem to have some hot (and well reviewed by veteran mongers) providers. I just don't go there very often for my own reasons and rationales.
= = = = =
As far as the "sanctity" and security of the male only forums is concerned, it has also been my experience that nothing stays sacred there very long if at all, since many WKs feel an absolute need to share data with females -- and with males who don't have access.
- gfejunkie
- 04-23-2015, 09:51 AM
- FoulRon
- 04-23-2015, 04:48 PM
You ask 4 questions:As always with this one, hidden agenda there is.
1.) How would we know? The operators of the board have a 0% transparency policy for how, when, why, any guideline is enforced.
2.) see above.
3.) I am sure someone would care, some might even care enough to post about it.
4.) see 1 above.
I am curious why are you making a public post asking how and why the board operators are enforcing their guidelines? Would it not be better to ask them directly? Or are answering these questions not your goal? If not then what is your goal? Originally Posted by Bob McV
But one usually doesn't risk angering the mods by going after them as well.
- Whispers
- 04-23-2015, 08:27 PM
As always with this one, hidden agenda there is.Mods are not above making mistakes. We've had to pause and get rid of a few of them over the years when they began to put their own interests above that of the owners and membership here. Ask gfejunkie about it. There was day it was decided that he had to go and he went..... he's STILL kicking and screaming about it though....
But one usually doesn't risk angering the mods by going after them as well. Originally Posted by FoulRon
There is no hidden agenda.....
I believe Michael of The Austin Escorts is using multiple handles to post and bump reviews, post negative comments about ladies that worked for him at one time and to make life uncomfortable for ladies that reject his recruitment efforts.
There have been multiple cases in the past where staff was in a little too deep with Agency owners and looked the other way. It was a recurring problem with Pimps in the Killeen area....... It's occurred in other cities all over the country.......
Perhaps what I am suggesting is not a matter of a MOD working with the Agency at all as was the case with previous ASPD MODs here in Austin....... Perhaps it is simply a matter of no one really caring what is and is not legit in the Agency Review Forums.....
- Bob McV
- 04-24-2015, 02:02 AM
Whispers: I never thought you had a hidden agenda, but merely a unclearly defined one. I come from an environment that when a question asked an answer is sought. So when you ask questions to a community that they can't answer. I am unsure why the question was asked.
Whispers seems to be trying to bring light to an issue of multiple accounts. I can support this cause. There should be tighter controls for such thing. It does create unneeded drama when one appears as many.
Without knowing the hows, and whys, etc of the board operators process to find and remove multiple account holders I am at a loss for suggestions to improve the situation.
Whispers Do you see the issue of agency owners with multiple accounts worse than or more prevalent than other situations where either providers or mongers have multiple accounts for whatever reason they choose.
What I do find interesting is that gender plays such a role in the information a person running an agency has access to. A man can see a lot more of what is said about his employee than a woman can with the same role. I ask you Whispers if you agree that is fair and right?
Ultimately I am unsure of what role an agency plays in this level of the game. It seems they are able to employee women that for whatever reason can't screen, book and handle their business independently. What other role do they play that gets them into a different category than a booker that works with several girls? Is it as simple as putting out a company name?
Whispers seems to be trying to bring light to an issue of multiple accounts. I can support this cause. There should be tighter controls for such thing. It does create unneeded drama when one appears as many.
Without knowing the hows, and whys, etc of the board operators process to find and remove multiple account holders I am at a loss for suggestions to improve the situation.
Whispers Do you see the issue of agency owners with multiple accounts worse than or more prevalent than other situations where either providers or mongers have multiple accounts for whatever reason they choose.
What I do find interesting is that gender plays such a role in the information a person running an agency has access to. A man can see a lot more of what is said about his employee than a woman can with the same role. I ask you Whispers if you agree that is fair and right?
Ultimately I am unsure of what role an agency plays in this level of the game. It seems they are able to employee women that for whatever reason can't screen, book and handle their business independently. What other role do they play that gets them into a different category than a booker that works with several girls? Is it as simple as putting out a company name?
- FoulRon
- 04-24-2015, 02:47 PM
Bob, it the oblique ways that whispers asks these questions, along with his other recent postings, that has me always assuming the threads he starts have hidden agendas. Nice of him to decide to be upfront about it above. I knew what he was getting at, but perhaps others didn't.
I don't know, do Agency/Booker accounts have different rights than normal members? Perhaps, because of their unique role in the industry, they should be limited to the basic right that everyone shares, i.e., no men's lounge access, or private comments, etc. I could see letting them have infoshare, since they are essentially assuming part of the role of provider and could benefit from that additional knowledge base for their business.
It's a bit of a sticky wicket though, since some are guys and some are ladies. But then the question to Whispers is, how are they different than your average pimp, who undoubtedly has acces to both his ladies accounts, and at least one male account.
Personally, I say treat them like any other account holder and if caught using multiple accounts or leaking private info, ban their asses.
Of course, if a monger/lady suspects that someone is using multiple accounts, then it's up to them to notify the mods using the tools they have given us, and let the mods take it from there. Recent history shows that they do have a nice set of tools to make such a determination. I see know real upside to whining to everyone in coed about it.
I don't know, do Agency/Booker accounts have different rights than normal members? Perhaps, because of their unique role in the industry, they should be limited to the basic right that everyone shares, i.e., no men's lounge access, or private comments, etc. I could see letting them have infoshare, since they are essentially assuming part of the role of provider and could benefit from that additional knowledge base for their business.
It's a bit of a sticky wicket though, since some are guys and some are ladies. But then the question to Whispers is, how are they different than your average pimp, who undoubtedly has acces to both his ladies accounts, and at least one male account.
Personally, I say treat them like any other account holder and if caught using multiple accounts or leaking private info, ban their asses.
Of course, if a monger/lady suspects that someone is using multiple accounts, then it's up to them to notify the mods using the tools they have given us, and let the mods take it from there. Recent history shows that they do have a nice set of tools to make such a determination. I see know real upside to whining to everyone in coed about it.
- Bob McV
- 04-24-2015, 04:46 PM
I agree that the roles of these agents, bookers, and pimps muddy the waters of the simple her side / his side walls this site created. Instead of making it more complex I would suggest making it more simple. Do away with the "private" forums. If note passing and back stabbing needs doing there is always the PM function or an off-board "sub-board" Both of which are used for that very reason already.
Sure would make the Mods job easier for not having to police if someone is actually stating something posted in a "private" forum or merely good at guessing.
Sure would make the Mods job easier for not having to police if someone is actually stating something posted in a "private" forum or merely good at guessing.
- Whispers
- 05-04-2015, 10:35 AM
Private ares are needed simply so that opinions we are not interested in hearing can't be voiced.