Socialism, the God That Failed - Again and Again and Again

This is a quick read, but a good historical tour-de-force. I never heard of Robert Owen, who pre-dated Karl Marx. At least he was an American seeking practical results, rather than an intellectual slave to his own false, hateful and doomed theories scribbled out in the library of the British Museum lol.

Question - how long do you think Bernie Sanders would last on an Israeli kibbutz? Over/under is one week. In 1971, he joined a Vermont hippie commune and didn't even last that long before they kicked him out!


Socialism Fails Every Time

The best outcome is a reversion to capitalism. The worst? Hundreds of millions dead.

By Joshua Muravchik
April 9, 2019 7:16 p.m. ET

Self-described socialist Bernie Sanders has become a favorite of young voters by posing as an apostle of daring new ideas. Socialism, however, is anything but new. It’s hard to think of another idea that has been tried and failed as many times in as many ways or at a steeper price in human suffering.

The term “socialism” was coined by followers of Robert Owen (1771-1858), whom Karl Marx would label a “utopian socialist.” In 1825 Owen founded New Harmony, an Indiana commune, to demonstrate the superiority of what was first called the “social system.” The same year, Owen explained his experiment to a joint session of Congress attended by Supreme Court justices, President James Monroe and President-elect John Quincy Adams. Although Owen poured his fortune into it, New Harmony collapsed in disarray and recrimination within two years.

Owen’s son Robert Dale Owen salvaged the community by implementing what he called “a policy the very reverse” of socialism: “giving each respectable citizen every facility and encouragement to become (what every adult ought to be) a landed proprietor.”

Undeterred, others founded some 40 to 50 similar communes during the 19th century, and all collapsed quickly. New Harmony’s two years proved to be their median lifespan.

Based on the uniformly dismal results, the idea of socialism might have died a quiet death were it not for Marx (1818-83), who transformed socialism from an experiment—tried, tested and failed—into a prophecy, “the riddle of history solved.” Ironically, he called his vision “scientific socialism.”

Inspired by the dream of proletarian revolution overthrowing capitalist immiseration, socialist parties sprouted across Europe. Yet instead of growing poorer, workers in industrialized countries saw improvement in their living standards; and instead of disappearing, middle classes expanded—all disproving Marx.

It took Vladimir Lenin’s “vanguard” and the horrors of World War I to give socialism new life. In Russia, Lenin pioneered modern communism, which in the 20th century was imposed on 18 countries and one-third of mankind. Repression was justified by socialism’s purported economic benefits, but the actual trade-off entailed economic misery and the snuffing out of as many as 100 million lives.

Today Communist parties rule six countries. Most follow the lead of China, where the party redefined itself to include entrepreneurs. A 2012 Wall Street Journal report identified 160 people with an average net worth of more than $1 billion holding high government or party seats. No Chinese Bernie Sanders rails against them.

“Social democrats” and “democratic socialists” rejected Lenin’s methods. But their goals remained transformational. As British Labour Party leader Clement Attlee, who became prime minister in 1945, explained: “Our policy was not a reformed capitalism but progress toward a democratic socialism.” Labour sought to bring “main factors in the economic system”—including banks, mining and energy—under “public ownership and control.” Nationalization worked so badly, however, that Attlee soon beat a retreat and was voted out in 1951.

In 1981 Socialist François Mitterrand was elected president of France promising a clean “rupture” with capitalism. The results of his spending and nationalizations were so alarming that in 1982 Mitterrand reversed course and implemented austerity measures, which he dubbed “socialist rigor” to save face. “The aim is to bring about a real reconciliation between the left and the economy,” explained Socialist Party chief Lionel Jospin.

American socialists like Mr. Sanders, while often defending the likes of Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega, Hugo Chávez and Nicolás Maduro, prefer to point to Scandinavia as a model. But Scandinavian social democrats learned to settle for dense social safety nets underwritten by remarkably free, capitalist economies. On the World Bank’s Ease of Doing Business scale, Denmark ranks third of 190 countries, Norway seventh and Sweden 12th.

Still other forms of socialism arose in the Third World. Encouraged by United Nations development experts, virtually all newly decolonized states adopted “African Socialism,” “Arab Socialism” or other variants. The result was years of economic stagnation until the successful models of East Asia began to reverse their thinking.

Successful socialism has been created in only one place on earth, the kibbutzim of Israel. They were democratic and egalitarian; sharing possessions, meals, even child rearing. But once the Jewish state was securely on its feet, kibbutzniks chose to switch to private enterprise. Socialism, they learned to their surprise, was not a happy way to live.

Socialism has failed everywhere it’s been tried—even where it succeeded. Surely today’s young people can create their own ideas and make their own mistakes rather than repeat those that darkened the times of their parents, grandparents and the generations before.

Mr. Muravchik is author of “Heaven on Earth: The Rise, Fall, and Afterlife of Socialism.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/sociali...me-11554851786

LL- Thank You for the History Lesson,

If you want true socialism, where the government owns the means of production, you need totalitarianism. Otherwise people are going to get fed up with the poor economy and replace their leaders.

The writer has a good point about Scandinavian countries. They're capitalist. All the residents, not just the wealthy, pay very high taxes so they can support large welfare states. Their tax systems are more regressive than the USA. This is something the American Democratic Socialists don't understand or won't say. They think we're going to magically pay for Medicare for all, free tuition, a guaranteed minimum income, and the Green New Deal with taxes on the wealthy. But they don't have enough to pay for all that. At such time as AOC's generation controls the country, the USA is much more likely to go the way of, say, Greece than Finland, because the only way to support massive social welfare without taxing the middle class heavily is to run up debt.

If you want true socialism, where the government owns the means of production, you need totalitarianism. Otherwise people are going to get fed up with the poor economy and replace their leaders.

The writer has a good point about Scandinavian countries. They're capitalist. All the residents, not just the wealthy, pay very high taxes so they can support large welfare states. Their tax systems are more regressive than the USA. This is something the American Democratic Socialists don't understand or won't say. They think we're going to magically pay for Medicare for all, free tuition, a guaranteed minimum income, and the Green New Deal with taxes on the wealthy. But they don't have enough to pay for all that. At such time as AOC's generation controls the country, the USA is much more likely to go the way of, say, Greece than Finland, because the only way to support massive social welfare without taxing the middle class heavily is to run up debt. Originally Posted by Tiny

I agree. I have no problem with Medicare for all and free college tuition as an ideal. But show me how it is going to be paid for before I sign up.

I agree. I have no problem with Medicare for all and free college tuition as an ideal. But show me how it is going to be paid for before I sign up. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

So your buddy "Uncle Joe" isn't sure on the Medicare for all idea...but his boss was...I hope this won't dissuade you from his support one way or the other.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...or-all-voxcare

I agree. I have no problem with Medicare for all and free college tuition as an ideal. But show me how it is going to be paid for before I sign up. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

You're going to pay for it. Along with every other gullible schmuck in this country who thinks that giving things free are actually free. No such thing, someone must carry the burden.

So your buddy "Uncle Joe" isn't sure on the Medicare for all idea...but his boss was...I hope this won't dissuade you from his support one way or the other.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...or-all-voxcare Originally Posted by bb1961

Whatever Biden ends up proposing on health care, it can't be worse than what Republicans and Trump proposed in 2017. After complaining about Obamacare for 6 or 7 years their plan was pure crap and even the Republican controlled Senate thankfully agreed.

You're going to pay for it. Along with every other gullible schmuck in this country who thinks that giving things free are actually free. No such thing, someone must carry the burden. Originally Posted by Levianon17

I don't disagree. Which is why it won't fly in Congress, assuming any such proposal makes it that far.

I don't disagree. Which is why it won't fly in Congress, assuming any such proposal makes it that far. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

You know that old saying, "If it's too Good to be True It Probably Is" Thats Bernie Sanders and Free This, Free That Campaign.

You know that old saying, "If it's too Good to be True It Probably Is" Thats Bernie Sanders and Free This, Free That Campaign. Originally Posted by Levianon17

My favorite saying of "There's no such thing as a free lunch" is also apropos.

My favorite saying of "There's no such thing as a free lunch" is also apropos. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Yep, thats another one. Healthcare and Education are really important aspects of our lives. I am not sure if I can trust someone with an ulterior motive like a politician to guarantee me that it won't be a financial burden any longer.

Yep, thats another one. Healthcare and Education are really important aspects of our lives. I am not sure if I can trust someone with an ulterior motive like a politician to guarantee me that it won't be a financial burden any longer. Originally Posted by Levianon17

Funny thing is most right wingers talk about socialism more that the handful of democrats who do. Fear Biden

Whatever Biden ends up proposing on health care, it can't be worse than what Republicans and Trump proposed in 2017. After complaining about Obamacare for 6 or 7 years their plan was pure crap and even the Republican controlled Senate thankfully agreed. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

We'll see if his plan for socialized medicine is good...nothing socialized in medicine is good...please show me some "unvarnished" facts to support this. I can list story after story about the nightmares involved in this Utopian garbage...in a Gumment controlled system where there is no competition the PEOPLE ARE THE ONE THAT SUFFER...PERIOD!!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi.../#3bdab1f43f2f


What is the Republican proposal...the plan you say is pure crap...the Obummercare relies on Gumment subsides to prop up the system for the ones that can't afford it and that is what caused my premiums and the premiums of many other to skyrocket.

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/res...ealth-care-act

The Senate vote failed because the traitor McCain lied about his intentions on Obummercare...so don't make it look like the Republicans in the Senate wouldn't have voted that terrible legislation down.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/obama...ved-it-n904106


Congrats on you...an"independent" in favor of Socialized medicine.
You say "you don't know my ideology"...
When has a Democrap ever espoused sell reliance...DO TELL SPEED...since you're an "independent"

We'll see if his plan for socialized medicine is good...nothing socialized in medicine is good...please show me some "unvarnished" facts to support this. I can list story after story about the nightmares involved in this Utopian garbage...in a Gumment controlled system where there is no competition the PEOPLE ARE THE ONE THAT SUFFER...PERIOD!!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi.../#3bdab1f43f2f


What is the Republican proposal...the plan you say is pure crap...the Obummercare relies on Gumment subsides to prop up the system for the ones that can't afford it and that is what caused my premiums and the premiums of many other to skyrocket.

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/res...ealth-care-act

The Senate vote failed because the traitor McCain lied about his intentions on Obummercare...so don't make it look like the Republicans in the Senate wouldn't have voted that terrible legislation down.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/obama...ved-it-n904106


Congrats on you...an"independent" in favor of Socialized medicine.
You say "you don't know my ideology"...
When has a Democrap ever espoused sell reliance...DO TELL SPEED...since you're an "independent" Originally Posted by bb1961

Point 1: If you think I am in favor of socialized medicine:

1. You don't know what socialized medicine is.
2. I have never said I favor socialized medicine.

Point 2: Biden has not come out in favor of either socialized medicine or even Medicare for All.

"Many of the top Democratic primary candidates have embraced Bernie Sanders’s Medicare-for-all plan, which would essentially eliminate private health insurance.

Biden hasn’t. He also hasn’t rolled out his health care platform, as Vox’s Sarah Kliff recently wrote, but he seems likely to present a center-left alternative to single-payer."


Point 3: You are correct in that Obamacare has its faults. Let's fix them rather than start anew. Trumpcare would have taken away insurance coverage for up to 23 million people over the next decade. Luckily for Republicans the GOP replacement plan never reached the Senate floor for a vote. And the people approve of Obamacare for the most part:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...-all-time-high

Point 4: I am a capitalist. However, I do support lending a helping hand to those less fortunate than I am in the form of welfare, food stamps, unemployment insurance, etc. Not handouts. If you, or a family member or friend, has had the misfortune of being temporarily out of a job and needed temporary assistance, you would know what I mean.

Funny thing is most right wingers talk about socialism more that the handful of democrats who do. Fear Biden Originally Posted by themystic

Democrats bring up the subject of Socialism and try to sell it in a nice pretty package sort to speak. Republicans just let them know how stupid they are.By the way no one fears Biden he's light work.