This month I have marked my 2 year aniversarry as professional companion.
Its been interesting journey to say the least. I've had amazing experiences, made great friends, discovered somethings about myself and others.
One thing that is beginning to bother me though is effect this lifestyle has on my personal life. I can no longer date!
Seriously, when I go on "civvie" dates, I cant help but compare them to my professional dates and guess what? I always end up having better time "on the clock" compared to regular dates.
Is it just me, or paying clients treat ladies with more respect then single men out there? I may be a bit old fashioned, but when I meet a man outside of P4P environment, I prefer to take things slowly, get to know a person and honestly just not capable of jumping in suck on 1st date.
When I mention that my last real life relationship was consummated after dating for 4 months, people look at me like I just run away from asylum.
Seriously, 2 years ago I though it is insanity to date someone I met as an escort. Now I am beginning to think it is the only way to meet someone accomplished, smart, generous and respectful.
Lina
- ForumPoster
- 09-28-2010, 12:15 AM
- discreetgent
- 09-28-2010, 12:21 AM
This thread http://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=102042 discusses one aspect of your question.
As to paying clients treating ladies with more respect: consider that usually the gent and the lady are on their best behavior. For the guy it is a way of relieving stress, being pampered, forgetting about day to day worries for a short time. So yeah, all the drama is left behind. Not really a surprise.
As to paying clients treating ladies with more respect: consider that usually the gent and the lady are on their best behavior. For the guy it is a way of relieving stress, being pampered, forgetting about day to day worries for a short time. So yeah, all the drama is left behind. Not really a surprise.
- ForumPoster
- 09-28-2010, 01:07 AM
This thread http://eccie.net/showthread.php?t=102042 discusses one aspect of your question.
As to paying clients treating ladies with more respect: consider that usually the gent and the lady are on their best behavior. For the guy it is a way of relieving stress, being pampered, forgetting about day to day worries for a short time. So yeah, all the drama is left behind. Not really a surprise. Originally Posted by discreetgent
Not really asking if any companion/patron fell in love. My question deals more with dating in civvie world while/after being a provider/patron.
I get distinct feeling that as companion I now have much higher standards for potential SO, while at the same time general population has lowered their standards. But that may be just my perception
Lina
- Camille
- 09-28-2010, 01:52 AM
I get distinct feeling that as companion I now have much higher standards for potential SO,Now that I can identify with.
Lina Originally Posted by Sensual Lina
I think for me it's simply because prior to escorting, I had been in 3 (and a bit) relationships since my teens. I didn't date at all as these men were in my circle of friends/colleagues. My circle was very small...or very limited I suppose depending on how you look at it. I didn't feel the need to step outside that circle for a long time. I was very happy..until I fell in love with the wrong geezer and ended up here lol.
Ecsorting allows you MUCH more exposure to a wider circle of men on multiple levels than I think most of us would be (somewhat) limited to in our civilian lives; age, location, career, etc etc. The small pond that had a few minnows in is now a massive ocean FULL of a yummy assortment of fresh fish
I'm not saying I want to see/meet/date them all..but I do see your point...and I do wonder if it's the exposure to more types of people that has changed your outlook..much like mine.
- Lovely Victoria
- 09-28-2010, 06:57 AM
Is it just me, or paying clients treat ladies with more respect then single men out there?It's not just you. I'm 100% with you on this one.
Lina Originally Posted by Sensual Lina
I get distinct feeling that as companion I now have much higher standards for potential SO, while at the same time general population has lowered their standards. But that may be just my perception Originally Posted by Sensual LinaSame here. Sigh...
- Guest083011
- 09-28-2010, 07:23 AM
Some of us guys, like to treat a lady or woman the right way (must be the upbringing), regardless of what her work is. It is called being a "gentleman" I think.
- WTF
- 09-28-2010, 09:50 AM
- Rudyard K
- 09-28-2010, 10:07 AM
- ForumPoster
- 09-28-2010, 11:16 AM
- ForumPoster
- 09-28-2010, 11:19 AM
- discreetgent
- 09-28-2010, 11:27 AM
It seems all true gentlemen are "in the hobby" these daysThe follow up question though is what will that person be if you date outside of P4P? I'm not saying that what starts as P4P cannot become a dating scenario (clearly from the other thread I have been open to that happening), but P4P is for the most part an artificial world; just like what we gents see of gals in P4P is certainly different - to some degree at least - than what they are outside of it, the same holds true for what gals see of the gents.
Lina Originally Posted by Sensual Lina
- TheDogger
- 09-28-2010, 11:55 AM
Personally, I've met FAR more interesting people in the hobby than out. Nothing is more deep and personal than our sexual selves. Look at the mores of society, match that up to the genetic norms we all have (we all deep down want to fuck uninhibitedly) and what you get is this fairly fucked up world of relationships.
Has anyone you've ever dated outside or before the hobby ever had as much honesty and ease as in the hobby? For me...none and I've had A LOT OF WOMEN previous to it. For me, it is perfectly understandable that you only want to be around men who respect you for who you are and are willing to compensate you for attention. Most men see it clearly....costs WAY more money and lost energy outside the hobby than in.
I can clearly see how you may end up clicking with a man inside the hobby where a longer term relationship could foster. You don't have to go through what the rest of the world does in trying to figure out how to be satisfied in the bed....which....without the want and desire to do so with your SO, makes them just a friend.
I got plenty of friends, just don't want them in my bed.
Has anyone you've ever dated outside or before the hobby ever had as much honesty and ease as in the hobby? For me...none and I've had A LOT OF WOMEN previous to it. For me, it is perfectly understandable that you only want to be around men who respect you for who you are and are willing to compensate you for attention. Most men see it clearly....costs WAY more money and lost energy outside the hobby than in.
I can clearly see how you may end up clicking with a man inside the hobby where a longer term relationship could foster. You don't have to go through what the rest of the world does in trying to figure out how to be satisfied in the bed....which....without the want and desire to do so with your SO, makes them just a friend.
I got plenty of friends, just don't want them in my bed.
- Laurentius
- 09-28-2010, 01:07 PM
There are a number of dynamics in civie dating that do not have as marked an effect in p4p dating.
1. I have heard many times in various places that in exchange for money providers often set aside various superficial issues in a hobbyist that would make him unsuitable as a real mate. I have no doubt this is true in many cases. After all, in her native format, most (most, not all) women will not have sex with a man they do not believe is wonderful and already pre-qualified as mate material.
Sometimes women project this mindset on to men, and believe that because the man is not only willing to have sex with them but pay them as well; he accepts them just as fully as she would be accepting a civie man. This is not true. His acceptance is temporary and provisional; and often based upon a bare sliver of knowledge of a woman putting forth a tiny portion of who she is. His reproductive strategy is more biased toward quantity.
The man's acceptance is whole-hearted because it is limited in scope and duration.
If you were to open up that scope to "marriage" and the duration to "forever" his standards would change.
2. Inter-sex hostility issues are put aside. Unfortunately, in the real dating world, a guy has to contend with serious issues pertaining to Custody/Access/Support law, the ability to grab a Domestic Violence RO based on hearsay, sexual harassment and more.
In the modern era, when a man civie dates and brings a woman into his home, he is undertaking a path fraught with peril that is quite present in his mind because he knows what has happened to at least one other guy he knows. Because humans are designed such that negatives and risks are far greater in our mind than positives and benefits -- even when the risks of negatives are relatively low -- a woman in the civie world has to contend with overcoming hurdles, barriers and thresholds.
A provider isn't immune to the intersex hostility; but she has to deal with its impact to a lesser degree because the level of threat she presents is dramatically less than a civie. A provider is not about to ask me after the first time we have sex what color the bedroom for our baby should be or when I'll be adding her to my life insurance policy. As long as I act like a decent person, I have no fear of a provider gratuitously using the legal system against me.
Intersex hostility has reached the unprecedented point of eligible males engaging in a marriage strike across the Western world.
A marriage strike won't adversely affect a guy dealing in P4P; but it could seriously affect a civie relationship. (BTW, men on marriage strike tend not to explicitly identify that way.)
3. And if a guy has personally been taken to the cleaners once before or been the victim of a legal system that has been used as an offensive weapon? Those hurdles, barriers and thresholds become a veritable fortress.
Again, this is not an issue in an arena such as p4p where risk exposure is limited. But in civie dating the guy is always on the lookout, evaluating, judging, looking for signs that you'd be the next one to sock it to him sans lube.
4. Heavy duty emotional baggage. While men are all manly and stuff and will seldom admit to being subjected to emotional pain; by the time a guy gets to hobbying he has likely already had his fill.
He has already dealt with the angst of an ex-wife withholding visitation just to cause him pain; or a woman he treated like gold dumping him for reasons he can't comprehend. He has already been through the deep depression where he spent months staring at the ceiling questioning if life was worth living.
In his civie life, he may be pretty assholish. This is often a protective mechanism to avoid a repeat performance of past emotional pain. (Or, he might simply be an asshole for other reasons, lol.)
But with a provider, that layer of protection isn't needed. He can be more free in some respects, more himself. He can often count on the provider to make sure he doesn't get too attached. So he feels safe.
And anyone who feels safe is better to be around than someone who feels under threat or the need to put up a front.
So the reason hobbyists seem so much better than civie men, IMHO, is because they give immediate acceptance of you as you are within the context in which you see them, intersex hostility issues are diminished, you do not present a legal risk, and he feels emotionally safe.
All of the foregoing notwithstanding, there is another matter that I think is very important: reciprocity.
Every sales training seminar will tell you about the power of reciprocity. As crazy as it may seem, a gift begets a gift.
When a provider treats a man, by default, as a worthwhile and decent human being, he will treat her the same.
And there is also the pygmalion effect. People will live up to high expectations. Providers often have high expectations of hobbyists, and they naturally strive to meet them.
And last but not least; some providers, once a guy gets to know them a little, are really fantastic people worthy of considerable respect. The respect is rendered because it is deserved.
A civie guy off the street might not really realize all of a woman's merits right away.
1. I have heard many times in various places that in exchange for money providers often set aside various superficial issues in a hobbyist that would make him unsuitable as a real mate. I have no doubt this is true in many cases. After all, in her native format, most (most, not all) women will not have sex with a man they do not believe is wonderful and already pre-qualified as mate material.
Sometimes women project this mindset on to men, and believe that because the man is not only willing to have sex with them but pay them as well; he accepts them just as fully as she would be accepting a civie man. This is not true. His acceptance is temporary and provisional; and often based upon a bare sliver of knowledge of a woman putting forth a tiny portion of who she is. His reproductive strategy is more biased toward quantity.
The man's acceptance is whole-hearted because it is limited in scope and duration.
If you were to open up that scope to "marriage" and the duration to "forever" his standards would change.
2. Inter-sex hostility issues are put aside. Unfortunately, in the real dating world, a guy has to contend with serious issues pertaining to Custody/Access/Support law, the ability to grab a Domestic Violence RO based on hearsay, sexual harassment and more.
In the modern era, when a man civie dates and brings a woman into his home, he is undertaking a path fraught with peril that is quite present in his mind because he knows what has happened to at least one other guy he knows. Because humans are designed such that negatives and risks are far greater in our mind than positives and benefits -- even when the risks of negatives are relatively low -- a woman in the civie world has to contend with overcoming hurdles, barriers and thresholds.
A provider isn't immune to the intersex hostility; but she has to deal with its impact to a lesser degree because the level of threat she presents is dramatically less than a civie. A provider is not about to ask me after the first time we have sex what color the bedroom for our baby should be or when I'll be adding her to my life insurance policy. As long as I act like a decent person, I have no fear of a provider gratuitously using the legal system against me.
Intersex hostility has reached the unprecedented point of eligible males engaging in a marriage strike across the Western world.
A marriage strike won't adversely affect a guy dealing in P4P; but it could seriously affect a civie relationship. (BTW, men on marriage strike tend not to explicitly identify that way.)
3. And if a guy has personally been taken to the cleaners once before or been the victim of a legal system that has been used as an offensive weapon? Those hurdles, barriers and thresholds become a veritable fortress.
Again, this is not an issue in an arena such as p4p where risk exposure is limited. But in civie dating the guy is always on the lookout, evaluating, judging, looking for signs that you'd be the next one to sock it to him sans lube.
4. Heavy duty emotional baggage. While men are all manly and stuff and will seldom admit to being subjected to emotional pain; by the time a guy gets to hobbying he has likely already had his fill.
He has already dealt with the angst of an ex-wife withholding visitation just to cause him pain; or a woman he treated like gold dumping him for reasons he can't comprehend. He has already been through the deep depression where he spent months staring at the ceiling questioning if life was worth living.
In his civie life, he may be pretty assholish. This is often a protective mechanism to avoid a repeat performance of past emotional pain. (Or, he might simply be an asshole for other reasons, lol.)
But with a provider, that layer of protection isn't needed. He can be more free in some respects, more himself. He can often count on the provider to make sure he doesn't get too attached. So he feels safe.
And anyone who feels safe is better to be around than someone who feels under threat or the need to put up a front.
So the reason hobbyists seem so much better than civie men, IMHO, is because they give immediate acceptance of you as you are within the context in which you see them, intersex hostility issues are diminished, you do not present a legal risk, and he feels emotionally safe.
All of the foregoing notwithstanding, there is another matter that I think is very important: reciprocity.
Every sales training seminar will tell you about the power of reciprocity. As crazy as it may seem, a gift begets a gift.
When a provider treats a man, by default, as a worthwhile and decent human being, he will treat her the same.
And there is also the pygmalion effect. People will live up to high expectations. Providers often have high expectations of hobbyists, and they naturally strive to meet them.
And last but not least; some providers, once a guy gets to know them a little, are really fantastic people worthy of considerable respect. The respect is rendered because it is deserved.
A civie guy off the street might not really realize all of a woman's merits right away.
- Guest053011
- 09-28-2010, 01:42 PM
I don't think it's a matter of paid dates being more respectful to ladies.
A typical professional companion and her patron are creating an oasis of time. They are both on their best behavior. It's a honeymoon, it isn't life.
It's easy to adore a man who has only taken you to dinner, spoiled your body with attention, held every door and whispered sweet nothings. But what happens when the same man has a close relative die and expresses his grief with anger - will you be there for him? When he looses his job and can't take you out to dinner or pay your bills - will your friendship and state of bliss maintain? What if he's ill and miserable, will you nurse him back to health? Are you truly willing to invest in them in the long term?
Or say this is too hard, too much effort, I'll wait for a new client....
In the "real" world, meaning not just civ but in any sincere caring relationship - you cannot expect to be spoiled - that's an unfair and shallow pressure that will grate on anyone's sanity. To be in a relationship with someone is to accept their faults, to embrace their imperfections as a whole. To adore the entire human being and build a history together. To show your own faults, and to work on improving together.
And consider - would these same men want you to call them in tears everyday for a week over a personal drama? Do they want to hear about the hardships of being a companion or must you isolate him? Will he really want to be there for you everytime you need financial help? Or is he enjoying the lack of drama, want only serentiy, only the good times?
If you're going to be in a happy *relationship* in the context of an alternative or vanilla bonding, each party must care for the other's well being even when it isn't comfortable or easy.
I have relationships with gents I met in this world that are without boundaries and let me assure you : Life is not a fairy tale, and expecting it to be is doom. When you start dating someone you met as a companion, you will get to know his friends, his family, his co-workers and you will see his dark side and every shade of grey. You catch him on his bad days, including days when he may nit be so nice to you, as well as see all the little daily flaws. Soon you will realize he's as imperfect as you are.
Happy 2nd anniversary. I look forward to celebrating my 10th this April.
My fifth and 8/9th year were by far the most profound. I hope you love the journey - there is still much this road may teach you. I'm lookin forward to seeing what the future holds...
A typical professional companion and her patron are creating an oasis of time. They are both on their best behavior. It's a honeymoon, it isn't life.
It's easy to adore a man who has only taken you to dinner, spoiled your body with attention, held every door and whispered sweet nothings. But what happens when the same man has a close relative die and expresses his grief with anger - will you be there for him? When he looses his job and can't take you out to dinner or pay your bills - will your friendship and state of bliss maintain? What if he's ill and miserable, will you nurse him back to health? Are you truly willing to invest in them in the long term?
Or say this is too hard, too much effort, I'll wait for a new client....
In the "real" world, meaning not just civ but in any sincere caring relationship - you cannot expect to be spoiled - that's an unfair and shallow pressure that will grate on anyone's sanity. To be in a relationship with someone is to accept their faults, to embrace their imperfections as a whole. To adore the entire human being and build a history together. To show your own faults, and to work on improving together.
And consider - would these same men want you to call them in tears everyday for a week over a personal drama? Do they want to hear about the hardships of being a companion or must you isolate him? Will he really want to be there for you everytime you need financial help? Or is he enjoying the lack of drama, want only serentiy, only the good times?
If you're going to be in a happy *relationship* in the context of an alternative or vanilla bonding, each party must care for the other's well being even when it isn't comfortable or easy.
I have relationships with gents I met in this world that are without boundaries and let me assure you : Life is not a fairy tale, and expecting it to be is doom. When you start dating someone you met as a companion, you will get to know his friends, his family, his co-workers and you will see his dark side and every shade of grey. You catch him on his bad days, including days when he may nit be so nice to you, as well as see all the little daily flaws. Soon you will realize he's as imperfect as you are.
Happy 2nd anniversary. I look forward to celebrating my 10th this April.
My fifth and 8/9th year were by far the most profound. I hope you love the journey - there is still much this road may teach you. I'm lookin forward to seeing what the future holds...
This month I have marked my 2 year aniversarry as professional companion.
Its been interesting journey to say the least. I've had amazing experiences, made great friends, discovered somethings about myself and others.
One thing that is beginning to bother me though is effect this lifestyle has on my personal life. I can no longer date!
Seriously, when I go on "civvie" dates, I cant help but compare them to my professional dates and guess what? I always end up having better time "on the clock" compared to regular dates.
Is it just me, or paying clients treat ladies with more respect then single men out there? I may be a bit old fashioned, but when I meet a man outside of P4P environment, I prefer to take things slowly, get to know a person and honestly just not capable of jumping in suck on 1st date.
When I mention that my last real life relationship was consummated after dating for 4 months, people look at me like I just run away from asylum.
Seriously, 2 years ago I though it is insanity to date someone I met as an escort. Now I am beginning to think it is the only way to meet someone accomplished, smart, generous and respectful.
Lina Originally Posted by Sensual Lina
- ICU 812
- 09-28-2010, 02:37 PM
I am guessing at all this now, so these are just my thoughts on it:
You are posting in the "HDFH" forum so I assume that your companions are on the up-scale side of the socio-economic continuum. This may not necessarily mean that they are nicer people, but it is likely that they have a wider life experience, can delay gratification and so on. Additionally, someone who comes to a high-end PFP situation is prepared to for the whole experience (cab, dinner, drinks and tips) and is not measuring the sessions outcome (known) against some portion of a weekly pay check on an uncertain real-world date. Another factor may be that a client may be conciously on his "good behavior" so he can get a good reference to another companion in the future.
Am I off base with any of this?
You are posting in the "HDFH" forum so I assume that your companions are on the up-scale side of the socio-economic continuum. This may not necessarily mean that they are nicer people, but it is likely that they have a wider life experience, can delay gratification and so on. Additionally, someone who comes to a high-end PFP situation is prepared to for the whole experience (cab, dinner, drinks and tips) and is not measuring the sessions outcome (known) against some portion of a weekly pay check on an uncertain real-world date. Another factor may be that a client may be conciously on his "good behavior" so he can get a good reference to another companion in the future.
Am I off base with any of this?