Recent push for references

So, I get why references are important. I don't debate their usefulness... but it seems like lately, all providers want more than one reference. I personally prefer to be more UTR than that. I review occasionally, and I really only do that to give ladies a chance to view for themselves that I'm legit (and for ROTS access, of course). I'll never, ever sign up for a p411 account... that's far too much personal info to be out there and "verified" ... a certain level of anonymity is key, IMO.

From my perspective, giving a reference not only means I have to potentially "out" a provider to someone I've never met, but it also means that I could be potentially providing LE with an association to someone. In many years in this hobby I've never had to provide references, it's just a "feel each other out first" scenario.

To top it off, I don't hobby *that* often. When I do it's usually with someone I already know. with many providers, studios, etc leaving the scene and many new ones coming on... If I want to see someone new (for variety or b/c of someone becoming unavailable) the only providers I could really provide as references are the ones that I really want to protect the most.

I get that ladies want to be safe, but so do I. And I want to keep my favorite ladies safe. Throwing out personal info does not seem like the best solution. What to do about this?

I was just about to post this in another forum. Being fairly new to stateside hobbying I'm still trying to research via the boards to figure out the culture of hobbying locally. Like you I want to limit my personal information that's why I'm not a P411 member even though they say they "destroy" the information once verified. I don't trust that. Is there a magic number of references to see the more reviewed providers? I've heard of people creating fake handles and posting fake reviews so I'm sure providers want to ensure their safety beyond a shadow of doubt.

What I wasn't prepared for was the drama that can come along with this "lifestyle". Reading the threads in some forums is like a high school locker room. Seems to me there is a bit of backlash from providers and their fanboys if there is a negative review of an ATF. That is a topic discussed ad nauseum so I won't go there but I see it already. Interested to see the feedback.

I think it is hooker alliances forming. (guilt by associations)
Also with many of the drama threads, it is kind of clear how both sides of the hobby can fake cred
I would suggest you invest in 411, it opens doors easier but still has some minor draw backs..but overall think it is worth the fee even being utr.

Early submit on the previous message, you guys both have enough reviews on girls you have seen, they can vouch for you and you don't have to send any personal info to 411.... they may ask for another visit to grease the wheel but can be done.

With two solid references, you need not give us any traceable real life info. We only want to verify that you are a legitimate client, exactly who you are doesn't matter to us. Also, with two provider references you are eligible for a free 6 month trial. No credit card needed, no strings attached. If you end up liking the system, renewal payments can be made via cash or money order.

We are Canadian owned and operated, and subject to the laws of Canada only. IF you are a client who doesn't have two references and ends up needing to provide some real life info for the initial screening, please know that our interest lies in protecting your identity. So any private info that may have been collected at first, is deleted and destroyed once the account is approved. I sleep better at night knowing my income is secure, because my customers are protected, because that information no longer exists.

We treat all legitimate clients, with a good reputation in the community, with the respect and discretion they deserve. Preferred411 was built on that premise and I plan to continue long into the future, as I have.

Always,
Gina

I am VERY hesitant to deal with anyone provider not on P411.

As seen in a thread this weekend, memberships can be revoked if someone isn't legit. As a client there's no easier way to get to see someone than to have it. Also, I'm a fan of them listing activities so I don't have to embarrass myself asking if she does activities I enjoy.

I am VERY hesitant to deal with anyone provider not on P411.

As seen in a thread this weekend, memberships can be revoked if someone isn't legit. As a client there's no easier way to get to see someone than to have it. Also, I'm a fan of them listing activities so I don't have to embarrass myself asking if she does activities I enjoy. Originally Posted by EasyLover214

Also, I hate it when a gentlemen asks me what activities are on the list. Always feels like I'm giving some incriminating information by telling a gentlemen the business.

P411 is wonderful, but its does have its flaws like anything else. Hindsight is always 20/20, and no matter how credible, great, or perfect an escort website/screening service may be, its still illegal in the United States. Also, if Law Enforcement wants you, they will get you. It only takes an IP address or busted provider who decides to work with LE.

Stay safe and use common sense to the best of your advantage.

If you are a hobbyist that doesn't want to be in the "mix", just make sure to kiss your ATF often. Find a few good providers and stick to them.

I'm not looking for reasons why P411 is safe, I'm sorry but it isn't. There is simply no way to have enough information on record to correctly verify that I am who I say I am... and still destroy all my information. Information security is my line of work, and I take this stuff seriously. I'm sure the intent is to protect p411 clients, but that doesn't mean they're protected. Again, this is what I do every single day. Knowing what I know, I will not be joining any such site.

Back on topic, what alternatives do we have? I suppose using a selection of already-trusted providers is best... I just wish it were still possible to meet new people without having to out anyone.

What do u mean "outing"? Giving reference is not "outing". References are here for safety and legitimacy. They weed out the time wasters and threats. I will accept one reference if it is from a trusted source but if I don't know the guy or the lady then I need a third or fourth source of info to feel its safe to proceed amd sometimes not even then.

Gut instinct goes along way and some guys may have ten references but if they want an outcall or want me to travel I say no thank you based on spidey senses alone.

Variety is the name of the game. If providers and hobbyists can't deal with that then maybe they needed to sign up for a dating site.

(Edit) Oops I hit send by accident! Lol

On p411, I think you are being a little paranoid. If there was a problem with privacy do u think Gina would still be in business???

Sounds like there is something else going on to be honest. Like, if you don't see that many ladies and only close "friends" then why be so worried about needing references anyway?? I've always been puzzled by that argument. Seems like you just don't want the "only girl" you see finding out about all the other girls you see. 0.02

There's lots of quality ladies on here and P411 who are newbie friendly.

by "outing" I mean that the only time I'd be giving a reference is when I'm seeing someone I've never met. I have no idea if that person is legit... they could be LE, a psycho killer, or a zombie for all I know. If I give their information out as a reference (especially if they end up being LE), I've just handed over contact info of someone I already trust. The person receiving that info could easily call and say something like "I was referred to you by FBU on eccie"... I don't think I need to explain that line of logic further.

As for being paranoid, yes. I'm paranoid. Of course I am. but, no more paranoid than the person (rightfully) asking for a reference. with things like p411, it's not about track record, it's about potential for compromise. potential for disaster... potential for all of their info being released to someone we don't want it being released to. Perhaps even to the public. It hasn't happened yet, so of course they're still in business. but the potential is there and I know *far* too much about the compromise of sensitive data to risk my data being part of it. If they *can* guarantee anonymity, then they *cannot* guarantee a valuable identification/verification service. The two simply cannot coexist. They must choose one or the other, and no matter which one they choose... I don't want to be a part of it. Just because there hasn't been a problem in the past doesn't mean there won't be a problem in the future. Do you really thing p411 has better security than Yahoo, Sony, or any of the major national banks who have been compromised? I assure you, they do not.

There is nothing else going on. I see why you might say that, but I've stated the only reasoning behind my concern. The point I made above was that I *do* like to meet new "friends"... otherwise, why would I be concerned with references? I couldn't care less if someone I've seen in the past, or see regularly, or whatever finds out anything about some new fun I'm having. I can't fathom why I would... hell, they can join in if they want. They don't all last, though. Providers move on to other areas, get out of the business, etc. Variety is not only fun but eventually necessary to stay in this hobby.

I'm not looking for "newbie friendly". I've been hobbying for about 15 years, I haven't been a newbie for a very, very long time. I'm simply trying to start a discussion about what I see as a problem with the way things have started to work.

Do you have a better approach to screening???

not really... I was hoping that this discussion might help the group come up with an alternative. Not expecting everyone to suddenly adopt a new, better way. Just looking for options that don't involve subjecting myself or my friends to unnecessary scrutiny.

not really... I was hoping that this discussion might help the group come up with an alternative. Not expecting everyone to suddenly adopt a new, better way. Just looking for options that don't involve subjecting myself or my friends to unnecessary scrutiny. Originally Posted by fatbaldugly

I believe Streetwalkers and AMPs don't need references.

I believe Streetwalkers and AMPs don't need references. Originally Posted by brownsugarbaby

suuuuper helpful...

suuuuper helpful... Originally Posted by fatbaldugly

You are very welcome mystery man .