SCAMS... here they are....

Girls
1) I need the donation up front. Then it gets tucked away and they only offer time no services. Let the arguing begin. They say they will call a friend who does that sort of thing but can’t get ahold of them. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front!
2) Same as #1 but with a spin. They get the cash and then they want big money to upgrade for services. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front!
3) Same as #1 they need the money up front. Then they ask you to go wash up. The money goes out the door and so do they. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front!
4) Same as #1 money up front but they need to pay their driver. Off they go and they are gone.
5) They get the money up front and suddenly there is a loud knock on the door. It’s a fat ass friend of hers saying “he is on his way over”. Tells YOU that you need to get the fuck out. The provider says she’ll call you when she gets a new motel room. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front! Walk out the door!
6) Money up front and pimp who has a key, blasts into the room wanting to know what you’re doing with his woman. If you latched the door he just keeps banging on it demanding you come out. Really hard to bust a nut while this is going on. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front! Call hotel and ask them to call the police, your being robbed. Watch what happens!
7) Out Call… girl can’t find you. Keeps calling saying you gave the wrong address. Finally shows up an hour later and it’s NOT the girl you expect. She starts looking through your stuff and she acts like she is talking to someone on the phone… (Driver, Pimp Etc.) You ask her WTF she is doing and she tells you, she wants to make sure you’re NOT LE. She DEMANDS the cash. You say wait a minute; you’re not the girl in the pictures. She then says to her phone, “I think I’m going to have a problem. An hour to find this FUCKING GUY and now he is playing games.” She demands a cancelation fee or there will be BIG TROUBLE. Most guys give $50-$100 to get them out of their motel or home and send them packing. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front! Call hotel and ask them to call the police, tell them some lady broke into my room and she is drunk and violent. Watch what she does. LOL
8) You walk in and get a big hug. Then the provider tells you she needs to reschedule because her girlfriend is in trouble. Asks for $50 and asks you to come back in two hours promising she will satisfy your every desire at a discount. Remedy: Tell her you only have the session money and you won’t pay ANYTHING until the session is over. Walk out the door.
9) Provider wants you to pay up front with Green Dot Card. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front!
10) Provider wants deposit. Up to 50% up front. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front!
11) Provider wants you to pick her up at a public location. This sometimes is a robbery set up. Remedy: Be aware of your soundings. Be on the phone with her and park away from the area until you see her. Then have her walk to you. Watch to see if anyone is following. Never park in a parking spot. Keep the car on the move till you feel all is well. If anything seems fishy or she is NOT what or who she claimed to be… hit the gas and get the hell out of there!
12) Two girls show up at your door instead of one. They say they are ready to PARTY! They ask for money to go buy condoms, beer, energy drinks, ciggs… whatever and they will be back in 20-30 minutes. Remedy: Slam the door on their faces. After they leave go to front desk and ask to get a different room. Make up whatever excuse you want but go to a different room.
13) Provider shows up and all is well. Gets money up front. She starts getting undressed and realizes she has NO CONDOMS. (A wise hobbyist ALWAYS has condoms with him) Then proceeds to tell you EVERYTHING is covered. Only offers HJ. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front!
14) Provider meets you in hotel parking lot. Tells you where to park and asks you walk to a side door. Sometimes a robbery set up… but then asks to get the money. Once she has it she runs or tells you the room number and says the door is open. She says she is going to go buy a soda and she will be right up. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front!
15) You’ll love this one… Provider asks you to meet her at a gas station. Motel is just down the street. She asks you to fill her car and needs money to buy condoms and energy drinks. All is well till she gets into the car and drives off never to be seen again. Stops answering the phone. Remedy: Never Pay Up Front!

Boys
1) Leaves counterfeit money in an envelope or just fives and ones. Remedy: Have him go wash his ass and check the money. If it’s not right, toss him out. If he refuses to leave call front desk and tell them that someone is breaking into your room. Post an alert.
2) Demands special things or he will write a BAD review. Remedy: Toss his ass out.
3) You show up for out call and he stops answering the phone. Remedy: Leave and write it off. Better yet screen your clients.
4) Session is over and hobbyist refuses to pay. Hobbyist says he wasn’t happy or expected more. Sometimes he will negotiate a lower price at this point. Remedy: Screen, Screen, Screen, Screen, Screen… stop seeing dip shits off of back page. But if you do… write it off. It’s not worth the trouble. Post an alert.
5) Hobbyist is on a budget and wants quickie in car. Remedy: Try not to laugh as you slam down the phone.
6) Hobbyist claims he is well known hobbyist. Remedy: Make him send PM and or P411 appointment request. NEVER believe a text or voice on the phone. Guys who pull this shit are pimps, time wasters and thugs. BEWARE! Post an alert.
7) Hobbyist sets up In Call.You get the room and NO SHOW! Remedy: Screen, Screen, Screen, Screen, Screen. Wait 48 hours. See if hobbyist contacts you. If he doesn’t, write an alert. Guys a fucking idiot. Post an alert.
8) Hobbyist is really a pimp. Screen, Screen, Screen, Just say NO! Demand your money and if he refuses, toss him out. Post an alert.
9) Hobbyist tries to get you to talk about rates or services. Screen, Screen, Screen, Screen, Screen. That’s NOT a hobbyist it’s LE. If it is a hobbyist, toss his ass out. He should know better. Helpful Hint: NEVER talk about what you do! Nothing wrong telling someone what you DON’T DO!
10) Hobbyist brings a friend or wing man. Remedy: If it wasn’t set up, the session is over. If you see its two guys don’t open the door. Post an alert.

The promise of new pussy and more money is hard to resist. But hobby safe, it just makes sense!
I'm sure I've missed some, so post them if you got them!

SL.... If i read this right,
1. Don't' pay upfront- boys
2. Screen, screen, screen-girls
3. Diligence - all

HB

So, for those of us that don't quite understand.... when should I pay up front??

SL to establish trust I always hand them an envelope with more than the donation amount and tell them to take the rate out of there. Of course I include my credit card, DL, mothers maiden name and SSN. I have only run into one rip off artist, and I have done a pretty good job of discrediting her on ECCIE. Really, if a girl is going to rip somebody off she should look to see that he is not a very active poster. I did give he ample time to undue her wrongdoing, but she thought she could get away with it. I have cost her many times what she stole from me.

SL did not mention taint or BBCR. What the hell is this thread about?

SL.... If i read this right,
1. Don't' pay upfront- boys
2. Screen, screen, screen-girls
3. Diligence - all

HB Originally Posted by happybanana

That's the Readers Digest Version! LOL

So, for those of us that don't quite understand.... when should I pay up front?? Originally Posted by Ed Highlight

Never on FIRST meetings ALWAYS after that!

Now why is that? Well ... you bargain for 1/2 or hour or what ever your pleasure might be. Then if she keeps you there longer... well that's very nice of her!

1. The make yourself comfortable trick....

She tells you to undress while she puts on lingerie. She runs toward dresser quick to take money and leave room


2. The hidden girl trick...(passionate kiss at the door)



She kisses you passionately at the door taking your clothes off pushing you back towards the bed. Your pants are taken off right at the edge of the bed and she starts boinking you.....

Meanwhile her very petite friend probably a spinner is hidden under bed going through your pockets for extra cash.

3.Hidden crouching shower/closet/under bed/connecting door pimp.


Remedy: Wear a jacket even when its hot and ask to hang it up, put chair back up against ajoining hotel door, leave shoes by bed....pretend to sneeze hard then check under bed......., say u have to piss, bump hard into the showercurtain ala WWE's spear move........then start your date.

4. I'm going to smoke. (Cash n dash, leaves throwaway purse or dress for trust)

She doesn't come back for rest of the appointment....should have booked a balcony.


4a. You book a balcony....and she smokes off of it and throws donation to her pimp on lower level....he tells her to jump or get out......

Well ... you bargain for 1/2 or hour or what ever your pleasure might be. Then if she keeps you there longer... well that's very nice of her!

Actually, if she keeps you longer chances are really good that she is still going to expect payment for the entire time you spent together. So if you leave the amount you initially discussed, even though you stayed longer, she is almost certainly going to think you ripped her off. She is then going to blacklist you on the provider only boards, and run to me wanting me to revoke your P411 account and to help her collect the funds she feels she is owed.

Can you guess what my response to the providers is?

GET PAID UP FRONT!!!

Provider who accept payment at the end of the visit are only setting themselves up to be taken advantage by envelope stuffers and guys who stay for two hours, thinking they only have to pay for one (since that's what they discussed).

Always,
Gina

I never pay up front, only after the session. If the provider has a problem with that, then she can leave. I will show her the donation if she asks. I never have any issues with the providers that I've seen in the past regarding this.

When choosing a provider, do your research, read the reviews. I know a lot of honest providers that have been ripped off or short changed. Most providers are honest and will do you right, others wont. I'ts a 2 way street.

The hobbist that does incalls is somewhat at a disadvantage, I dont do incalls for various reasons.

Rocker

Actually, if she keeps you longer chances are really good that she is still going to expect payment for the entire time you spent together. So if you leave the amount you initially discussed, even though you stayed longer, she is almost certainly going to think you ripped her off. She is then going to blacklist you on the provider only boards, and run to me wanting me to revoke your P411 account and to help her collect the funds she feels she is owed.

Can you guess what my response to the providers is?

GET PAID UP FRONT!!!

Provider who accept payment at the end of the visit are only setting themselves up to be taken advantage by envelope stuffers and guys who stay for two hours, thinking they only have to pay for one (since that's what they discussed).

Always,
Gina Originally Posted by GinaXXX

Ahhhhh my fine P411 higher power....it is assumptive that P411 is NOT part of the equation. If it was then the majority of the issues are eliminated because of fine screening done by your crack team.

But I tell you this... if I was meeting you in Canada you can bet your cute little ass I would NOT pay you up front. well unless you were willing to take a check with the name "STILL LOOKING" on it!

All kidding aside... because of my membership with P411 and my 190+ reviews I seldom get asked for the "donation" up front. So its not something I need to deal with. But other hobbyist with less reviews and no P411 membership will be challenged simply because of their newness.

But we both know that there are rotten eggs not only on Craig's List, Back Page, ECCIE and P411. Try as we may to protect ourselves... they are out there!

1. The make yourself comfortable trick....

She tells you to undress while she puts on lingerie. She runs toward dresser quick to take money and leave room


2. The hidden girl trick...(passionate kiss at the door)



She kisses you passionately at the door taking your clothes off pushing you back towards the bed. Your pants are taken off right at the edge of the bed and she starts boinking you.....

Meanwhile her very petite friend probably a spinner is hidden under bed going through your pockets for extra cash.

3.Hidden crouching shower/closet/under bed/connecting door pimp.


Remedy: Wear a jacket even when its hot and ask to hang it up, put chair back up against ajoining hotel door, leave shoes by bed....pretend to sneeze hard then check under bed......., say u have to piss, bump hard into the showercurtain ala WWE's spear move........then start your date.

4. I'm going to smoke. (Cash n dash, leaves throwaway purse or dress for trust)

She doesn't come back for rest of the appointment....should have booked a balcony.


4a. You book a balcony....and she smokes off of it and throws donation to her pimp on lower level....he tells her to jump or get out...... Originally Posted by gimme_that

DAYUM!

Oh and Gina.... I would NEVER take advantage of a provider. I make it very CLEAR I do NOT pay for off the clock time. If they want to join me for dinner and a movie or sleep over or perhaps jump a plan for Las Vegas.... well that's up to them.

In all my years of hobbying, I've ALWAYS paid upfront. While not as prolific as SL, I've probably has close to 100 encounters. Never been ripped off and only encountered an upsell artists once. In my early hobbying days, I was probably reckless and clueless and LUCKY. However since returning to hobbying back in 2007, I do my research and see ladies that are well reviewed or have a good reputation. Also, I engage in lengthy communication with the ladies well in advance of any tryst. To be honest, I approach most appointments like a real date. I try to get a feel for a lady well ahead of time. Besides, a gentleman shows respect by paying when the lady expects to be paid.

The basic problem I have with your advice--the "never Pay Upfront" part--is that it pushes all the trust factor onto the lady. She then has to trust that the guy won't pull any of the numerous scams to leave without paying.

I think this really comes down to one rule for both sides: Screen, screen, screen, and screen a bit more. No matter when you pay, one or the other is being asked to assume the risk.

CP has it right.