Big boy/girl Underoos

In another thread, one of our hardworking mods made a statement that I want to respond to, but I don't want to hijack the thread.

We are well beyond the time where some of us need to put our big boy/girl Underoos on and stop being so overly sensitive. You can't tell someone to "Stay off my thread if you don't like it" then jump into each and every thread you don't like in return...... That sort of hypocracy gets jumped on with the quickness around here..... Too many people who are too smart and smarmy to allow that to happen....... My advice to all is to take a look in a mirror....... If you are getting all worked up in all of this, you need to push away from your keyboard...... Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

JaD, with all due respect:

I'll start by saying I don't like bullies. And believe that Eccie encourages bullies.

If you maintain an environment where antisocial behavior is not only tolerated but encouraged, you can expect people to be upset by it, and you can expect the situation to continue to deteriorate to the point where just about every thread, no matter how innocently or usefully it starts, degrades into this. Eccie has set the bar extremely low in terms of what is considered civil behavior, and a few noisy misogynists have turned Eccie into their private playground because of it.

I believe that the most effective way address the problem you described is to set standards for civil behavior, and enforce them. Meaningful standards, not ones where troublemakers can slide by on technicalities while still offending and insulting members on a regular basis. That's what we have now, and when favored members are seen playing their inane "ooh, look how smart I am, I got away with it" games, others feel justified in their own bad behavior.

It's a spiral to the bottom.

I hear repeated complaints that there aren't enough attractive new providers on Eccie. As it sits now, I can't imagine why a provider would want to participate in the discussions on Eccie. There are guys whose goal is to trap a provider into saying something that could be damaging to her business. It's as if these guys have forgotten that the hobby is, for guys, based on illusion. And that women are here not because you're charming and clever,

Unfortunately, what we have now is a group of wannabe bad boys pissing all over the board, insulting providers based on physical characteristics, and attacking providers who attempt to start threads (the whole inane "threAD" stuff.) Eccie has created at least two places in the Houston section for them to engage in their wankery (one that is for men only and one that is coed) and yet it spills out here on a regular basis.

Not surprisingly, the guys who do this are often the ones who share the least in terms of actual hobby information.

(To these guys: I get it. You need reinforcement from the group that you're smarter than providers. You need reinforcement from the group that you don't find fat girls attractive. You crave the reputation that you only see gorgeous providers. You don't like when certain providers do precisely what you do - draw attention to themselves. You like when your "friends" here pat you on the back for appearing to outsmart someone who very well may have dropped out of high school because of a tough childhood, when in fact she's probably holding back because if she puts you firmly in your place it could cost her business.)

And I find it rather disingenuous that as a moderator you choose to reprimand those who get fed up with the abusive environment, rather than the ones who set the tone. I watch much of the back-and-forth, and I'm reminded of patient preschool teachers (the providers) dealing with unruly children who are flinging their poop around and laughing about it.

"Hypocrisy" is bad. But being offensive is good?

I had been under the impression that Eccie was set up to be a place where escorts and clients can exchange information about the hobby, to the mutual benefit of all. But what we have now is a noisy portion of the community who gets their kicks by taking potshots at certain providers, and hide behind the label of "entertainment", cheered on by followers who don't have the balls to stand up for what's right.

It no doubt generates a lot of page hits - many of these guys don't have an outside life judging from how often they're posting. But I wonder if it actually increases the number of unique visitors to the site, and that is the most important metric of a site's popularity. The core of regular posters in Houston doesn't seem to be growing significantly.

So if Eccie's goal is to have a small group of guys circle jerking each other about how they're really smart guys who don't like fat girls, date only hot providers, and click endlessly on each others' posts, you've got it.

But do you really want that?

And what do you propose to do about us?

Fuck, I would have just hijacked the other thread.

My comment was in regards to the hypersensitivity to certain natures in addition to those who continue to push the envelope..... To tell the masses to grow up as a whole in a sense...... Here is the issue as has been discussed before...... This board has rules, and our jobs as mods is to enforce the rules as they are written, not as we our preception of these rules..... That inherently leads to loopholes within the rules, grey areas, and the like...... The problem lies with enforcement of these rules...... Would you like the mods to pick and choose how they see the rules written and judge as they each see fit? That sounds like a mess to me, and highly corruptable...... Would you rather an iron fisted regime where even the grey areas are punished to the fullest extent of the guidelines? Trust me, in that case more on the other side would have mass accumulated points and EVERYONE would post signigicantly less..... Thread hijacks in all forms happen each and every thread. Quasi insulting remarks or even precieved insulting remarks are rampant in each thread as well..... And for that matter, who's definition of insulting or rude behavior do we employ?

Now, which is worse being a hypocrite or being offensive you ask? I say there is little to no difference..... The offensive ones know (in most cases) that they are offensive where as the hypocrites do not..... My goals in my statements were to help with a little self reflection fo those who do not realize their own actions...... My contention is that once you cease empowering these offensive people and their actions, the faster they stop posting these continuingly offensive posts...... It is up to the community to either encourage or discourage behavior, not the Mods..... While they continue to be enabled and encouraged they will continue to grow in numbers and post counts........ That is more to the point I was attempting to make..... Again, as Mods we must adhear to the written rules and guidelines as they are written.....

I know it sounds like a bit of a cop out, or an excuse, but it is genuinely a slippery slope you tread when you try to define this Message board Utopia........ Fact is that it will NEVER exsist. There will ALWAYS be trolls in some form or another. There will always be keyboard tough guys. Again, if you want to see less discussion (civil or otherwise) change the rules and let us iron fist things around here..... Topics, traffic, posting, and everything will go down...... It is a guarentee...... And as I have said before..... Always keep in mind what the owners of this site and what their primary focus and goals are...... It is in their best interest to protect and drive their investment and gains..... Rightfully so..... But that being said, it is also in their best interest to protect their constituants and their goals to the best of their abilities......

In regards to the ThreAD aspect, as has been addressed before....... Ladies are welcome to post these ThreADs ( as stated by the owners "ThreADs are Okay")...... As it is supposed to be a vehicle for information exchange, you cannot deny many simply use the forums as a platform for further and further Ad injections...... Just as they are welcome to post these Quasi/Undercover Ads withing "Threads" it is also the right of hobbyists to point out this veiled attempt at subject matter in an attempt to get your sig line and Avatar out there more often so long as they do so in a (here is that ambiguous word again) civil manner...... Even you must admit there are many times where a thread is posted by a provider that is nothing more than the above mentioned...... Is that reasonable information exchange? Or does that then simply allow women to blatantly post Ads throughout CoED and Sandbox unabaited in addition to the 2 ad forums? Again..... It is a part of the community shaping the individuals.......

This board is just like every other part of society..... The most controversial and the squeaky wheels get the most attention..... You can either reward their bad behavior, or you as a community can mold this board as you wish......

I do not encourage bad behavior on either side of the ledger, and I have told specific individuals on countless occasions that he/she is an asshole/bitch/Cunt (thats for you Val)....... But being an asshole/bitch is not against board rules........

JaD

I agree blowpop 100%. I don't even blame the school kids, but the teachers who are suppose to control them! If its your job to oversee and make sure things are right, then do so. I use to think you JaD were one of the most fair Mods. But you sit by and not even to say anything in our defense while we are called hate names. Let it be a racist remark, and watch you go. Its the same fucking thing!

No Amy.... I'm afraid it is not the same thing..... Go back and re read ivan's thread..... Was it a shot at you or was it a statement of current events on the board? I promise you that I have and will step in when that line is crossed regardless of who that may be...... A precieved "hate name" is not the same as a rasict remark....... Go back and look at the thread and the original post, and take the words at face value.......to be completely honest, from my view from the side of it, the drama did not start until you yourself started and provoked it.......Again, we as Mods are not here to control anyone on the board, we are here to enforce the rules as they are written...... It is up to the community and its members to guide other members.......

The best analogy I can make is that we as Mods are not the Engines, nor are we the rudders of a boat headed down river..... We're the guys up front with the pole trying to push the boat back into the middle of the river and trying to keep it from running aground on the banks.....

JaD

I agree blowpop 100%. I don't even blame the school kids, but the teachers who are suppose to control them! If its your job to oversee and make sure things are right, then do so. I use to think you JaD were one of the most fair Mods. But you sit by and not even to say anything in our defense while we are called hate names. Let it be a racist remark, and watch you go. Its the same fucking thing! Originally Posted by bustyamy

Teachers are trained and hired to teach specific subjects they are qualfied to teach.

The students are there to learn from the teachers. If there are some unruly and ill-behaved students in the bunch it detracts from the others' ability to benefit fully from the available learning experience offered by the TEACHERS.

If the students are disruptive and deprive others from the learning opportunities, then there are alternative schools and detention facilities in which they can spend their time and give those who do want to benefit from the learning experience a rest from their disruption and interference.

I wish the worse thing I've been called on here is .... "fat" ... and I wish the worse thing I been labeled on here were ..... "whale" ....

.... where were you "amy"? Thinking about yourself, again?

You know the words to the song ... they are not just words to a song ....

"know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em" .......

The same advice given to "Jemma-the-minnow" applies here ...

.. ignore ...

... if you are comfortabel with yourself that is all that counts ... if you are not .... you are not going to gain that confort engaging like you do.

The first word in the title was aimed right at big girls, yes? or no? And yes its about hate, regarding age, race, gender, weight. It was a let me show my ass thread. Saying that Houston is getting swamped with big girls, well you will always find the anorexic, with a habit, and a pimp, and probably a disease. So no worries, us big girls only like clients who like us! We aren't trying to force anyone to see us! Its a free country, and 5 years ago there were big girls. I am a human not a fucking whale, its a hate word just the same as a racist remark!

My comment was in regards to the hypersensitivity to certain natures in addition to those who continue to push the envelope..... To tell the masses to grow up as a whole in a sense...... Here is the issue as has been discussed before...... This board has rules, and our jobs as mods is to enforce the rules as they are written, not as we our preception of these rules..... That inherently leads to loopholes within the rules, grey areas, and the like...... The problem lies with enforcement of these rules...... Would you like the mods to pick and choose how they see the rules written and judge as they each see fit? That sounds like a mess to me, and highly corruptable...... Would you rather an iron fisted regime where even the grey areas are punished to the fullest extent of the guidelines? Trust me, in that case more on the other side would have mass accumulated points and EVERYONE would post signigicantly less..... Thread hijacks in all forms happen each and every thread. Quasi insulting remarks or even precieved insulting remarks are rampant in each thread as well..... And for that matter, who's definition of insulting or rude behavior do we employ? Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

A key characteristic of a good moderator is good judgement. When you're dealing with people there is no black and white, only shades of grey. The line is always somewhere in the grey.

Here's an example: If a regular poster, let's call him GoToSleep, were to refer to every African-American provider as a "n!@@#r", I'd imagine that wouldn't be considered acceptable. If he called every TS provider a "fa@@ot" that would probably be shut down, too. So how is calling an overweight provider a "whale" considered acceptable? Because it's funny to make fun of fat people, but not African Americans? Or more precisely here, because a group of guys has an issue with fat women, because they're not blunt enough in how they refer to themselves?

Now, which is worse being a hypocrite or being offensive you ask? I say there is little to no difference..... The offensive ones know (in most cases) that they are offensive where as the hypocrites do not..... My goals in my statements were to help with a little self reflection fo those who do not realize their own actions...... My contention is that once you cease empowering these offensive people and their actions, the faster they stop posting these continuingly offensive posts...... Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

If someone is repeatedly making offensive posts, I'd expect the moderators to first explain how their behavior isn't acceptable, and then give them a vacation if the behavior continues, and remove the offensive posts. That's a big part of what the job of moderator entails.

It is up to the community to either encourage or discourage behavior, not the Mods..... While they continue to be enabled and encouraged they will continue to grow in numbers and post counts........ That is more to the point I was attempting to make..... Again, as Mods we must adhear to the written rules and guidelines as they are written..... Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

So basically as long as there's a big enough mob of assholes, they should be allowed to do what they want?

I know it sounds like a bit of a cop out, or an excuse, but it is genuinely a slippery slope you tread when you try to define this Message board Utopia........ Fact is that it will NEVER exsist. There will ALWAYS be trolls in some form or another. There will always be keyboard tough guys. Again, if you want to see less discussion (civil or otherwise) change the rules and let us iron fist things around here..... Topics, traffic, posting, and everything will go down...... It is a guarentee...... And as I have said before..... Always keep in mind what the owners of this site and what their primary focus and goals are...... It is in their best interest to protect and drive their investment and gains..... Rightfully so..... But that being said, it is also in their best interest to protect their constituants and their goals to the best of their abilities...... Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

The choices aren't anarchy or iron fist. It's more like swatting bugs. If one bug keeps causing problems, you swat him until he learns or leaves. And if he does neither, you throw him out.

Every time I've moderated a discussion group (and I've done so numerous times in the hobby) there were one or two idiots whose antisocial tendencies overrode everything else. Banning them made 90% of the problems go away. And when I didn't have the support of ownership to deal with the idiots who were causing the problems (in one case, the problem child was an owner's sock puppet) I stopped moderating.

In regards to the ThreAD aspect, as has been addressed before....... Ladies are welcome to post these ThreADs ( as stated by the owners "ThreADs are Okay")...... As it is supposed to be a vehicle for information exchange, you cannot deny many simply use the forums as a platform for further and further Ad injections...... Just as they are welcome to post these Quasi/Undercover Ads withing "Threads" it is also the right of hobbyists to point out this veiled attempt at subject matter in an attempt to get your sig line and Avatar out there more often so long as they do so in a (here is that ambiguous word again) civil manner...... Even you must admit there are many times where a thread is posted by a provider that is nothing more than the above mentioned...... Is that reasonable information exchange? Or does that then simply allow women to blatantly post Ads throughout CoED and Sandbox unabaited in addition to the 2 ad forums? Again..... It is a part of the community shaping the individuals....... Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

I think it's insulting to assume that because a provider starts a hobby-related thread, it's an ad. Unless your assumption is that every post a provider makes is an ad, at which point the term "threaAD" becomes meaningless. IMO the term is just another example of guys trying to put providers "in their place" - notice who uses the term on a regular basis.

This board is just like every other part of society..... The most controversial and the squeaky wheels get the most attention..... You can either reward their bad behavior, or you as a community can mold this board as you wish...... Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

The difference between Eccie and general society is that most members here operate with anonymity. That's why the worst offenders typically don't post reviews - few providers would want to see these jerks BCD. There is zero accountability for guys on Eccie, other than the sanctions that moderators could enforce. For providers there is accountability, because we use their handles to book with them. That's why you don't see providers behaving nearly as badly as do the worst of the guys.

Frustrated little men with zero accountability is a recipe for bad behavior. And that's what we see here.

I do not encourage bad behavior on either side of the ledger, and I have told specific individuals on countless occasions that he/she is an asshole/bitch/Cunt (thats for you Val)....... But being an asshole/bitch is not against board rules........

JaD Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

But Eccie mods tolerate bad behavior. And as the only authority, doing so does encourages it, as witnessed by the continuing behavior we see here.

You are the hardy soul who accepted the position, so how you execute it is your decision to make. Members like me merely offer our opinions.

But please don't try to absolve yourself from responsibility if you are in fact empowered to do something and you choose not to do so. Choosing not to quash bad behavior is giving it your seal of approval.

And what do you propose to do about us? Originally Posted by Wakeuр

WU...

All BS aside..

Why should some one HAVE to "do" any thing about it? Why can't you .. and a few others.. use this board for what it is SUPPOSED to be for? We know how you feel.. We are not asking YOU or any one else to come see us, spend your money where you don't feel you should, change how you feel, change what you think, or what any one else thinks, or any of that. We do not "beg" for business, post ads any more than the skinny girls around here do.. We may comment on threads more.. but so damn what.. I have a lot less post then any of you so who is 'spamming the boards?" We are here for OUR clients, who do like and want what we offer. Why can't you just leave it at that? Your statement above shows one thing.. how childish you continue to try to be. And YOU are/were/whate ever the case.. a part of a group of people who defend our country? Please.. you are so quick to judge people here (mostly a few of us) yet, if I were an "out sider" and did a "search" on YOU, I would think you were the type of person in REAL LIFE who pulled shit as the idiot just did in Co.. YOU fit that discription.... So just chill the fuck out and stop following us around on the boards and trying to make every thing here about weight..

Why is that so hard for you to do?

Thought this was going to be another thread about boardman .... Where are the pussy photos?

The first word in the title was aimed right at big girls, yes? or no? And yes its about hate, regarding age, race, gender, weight. It was a let me show my ass thread. Saying that Houston is getting swamped with big girls, well you will always find the anorexic, with a habit, and a pimp, and probably a disease. So no worries, us big girls only like clients who like us! We aren't trying to force anyone to see us! Its a free country, and 5 years ago there were big girls. I am a human not a fucking whale, its a hate word just the same as a racist remark! Originally Posted by bustyamy

Again.... In short you don't know if the Whale was aimed at big girls or the thread in the Sandbox..... Because you personally take offense to it does not make it a globaly offensive remark..... It is not a hate word in the sense of a rasist remark..... The OTHER thread is about that topic not this one. Part of my point of this spilling into every other thread. Do not post in this thread on that subject again please. Please go to the other thread or start a new one if you wish to continue to talk about it.

Thought this was going to be another thread about boardman .... Where are the pussy photos? Originally Posted by pyramider

Your feedback and levity are almost always appreciated........ However lets stay on track just this once for a little while longer please. This thread has great potential, and would like to see it stay on the subject at hand please.....

Just a quick response to BP (I want to and will respond in more detail here shortly, if you would allow me as I would like to address more when I have the proper time to dedicate to it) First, there are few people who can present an argument and have a fantastic discussion such as this without coming unhinged or irrational. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you discussing this with me like this as always. While we may not alway see eye to eye on things it is awesome to have conversations like this.

I (and the other Mods) am not infallable..... And in fact make mistakes all the time...... I am always in persuit of bettering myself and increasing my knowledge base as a whole...... There are some (what I see as) fundemental flaws in some of the ideals that have been stated but I will get into that in more detail here shortly....... And while I never have asked to be absent in responsibility here as I too am a member of this community, it must still not all be laid soley at my (or the other Mods) feet either......

I promise I have MUCH more to say here, and will when I have a better chance to do so......

JaD

Nikki, you missed the point completely. This isn't about my opinions about whales, or fat chicks.

Nothing I have said here, or in any fat woman thread, has violated the rules. If it had violated a rule, then I'm sure I would have been on the receiving end of an infraction. For your information, every single moderator in Houston yearns for the chance to give me points, just so they can say "I gave Wakeup points, so stop whining at us for not doing our jobs." Both you and Blowpop suffer from the same exact disease. You expect the moderators to enforce your interpretation of the rules, and not their own interpretation of the rules, or the interpretation of the owners concerning the rules.

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but this isn't Burger King, you don't always get it your way. It's been pretty clear up to this point what the interpretation of the moderators has been, and with the extreme scrutiny that has been placed on these fat chick threads I have no doubt that it's the same interpretation that the owners have. You now have only three choices.

One, you can propose changes to the rules which will specifically address the behaviors that you don't like here on this board and see if the owners agree to change the rules for you.

Two, you can accept the fact that the moderators/owners interpretation of the rules is different from yours and move on.

Three, you can leave, and join the mythical Interwebs Shangri-La Board that Blowpop dreams that this place can be.

Which is it going to be? Because whining like this isn't going to get you anywhere but a one way ticket to Frustration Land...


P.S.-If you do find this mythical board, let me know how it goes for ya...

P.P.S.-My contention is, ironically, the same as JaDs...you're not going to find this mythical place of which you speak. Anyone who has spent any amount of time on the Interwebs knows this. So, your best option is to stop taking the little blinky pixels on your computer screen so seriously and realize that not a single person here means jack shit to you...and move on with your posting...

Nikki, you missed the point completely. This isn't about my opinions about whales, or fat chicks.

Nothing I have said here, or in any fat woman thread, has violated the rules. If it had violated a rule, then I'm sure I would have been on the receiving end of an infraction. For your information, every single moderator in Houston yearns for the chance to give me points, just so they can say "I gave Wakeup points, so stop whining at us for not doing our jobs." Both you and Blowpop suffer from the same exact disease. You expect the moderators to enforce your interpretation of the rules, and not their own interpretation of the rules, or the interpretation of the owners concerning the rules.

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but this isn't Burger King, you don't always get it your way. It's been pretty clear up to this point what the interpretation of the moderators has been, and with the extreme scrutiny that has been placed on these fat chick threads I have no doubt that it's the same interpretation that the owners have. You now have only three choices.

One, you can propose changes to the rules which will specifically address the behaviors that you don't like here on this board and see if the owners agree to change the rules for you.

Two, you can accept the fact that the moderators/owners interpretation of the rules is different from yours and move on.

Three, you can leave, and join the mythical Interwebs Shangri-La Board that Blowpop dreams that this place can be.

Which is it going to be? Because whining like this isn't going to get you anywhere but a one way ticket to Frustration Land...


P.S.-If you do find this mythical board, let me know how it goes for ya...

P.P.S.-My contention is, ironically, the same as JaDs...you're not going to find this mythical place of which you speak. Anyone who has spent any amount of time on the Interwebs knows this. So, your best option is to stop taking the little blinky pixels on your computer screen so seriously and realize that not a single person here means jack shit to you...and move on with your posting... Originally Posted by Wakeuр

Typical response from you.. No where did I say any thing about the Mods, or what they do.. I was strictly speaking to you.. which you went around in your own wormy way.. I do not need to "get your opinion" any more ore less than you need to get mine sweety..


One day, life will show you were you went wrong.. and then YOU will get it..

Have a great day WU...

I agreer with BP. I for one am sick of all the assholes than can only post useless, smartass and degrading comments without adding anything useful to any thread.

Including the ladies such as Bustyamy and Nikkilove who cannot even comment in this thread without havind to add all of thier AD info as part of it.