The debt ceiling and Biden lies

Once again, Chicken Little Biden (and his friends in the media) have talked about the sky is falling. Is it? Not really. If the US "defaults" that means that the executive branch has to choose which bills get paid. Some bills must be paid whether the executive branch wants to or not. Interest on the debt must be paid, Medicare has its own trust fund so it's not even part of the conversation. If only Social Security was the same but they raided that trust fund back in 1967. Any other spending has to be prioritized by the White House. Do we pay the military or do we spend money on 87,000 new IRS agents? White House has to choose. Do we pay for the Border Patrol or do we pay for some green energy boondoggle? The White House choses. Same thing for the Coast Guard (drug interdiction), the FFA (no one likes air crashes), and the CDC (did you just sneeze?). On average, 337 billion dollars is taken in every month by the US government. The US spends about 313 billion every quarter on the debt. That's about $100 billion a month leaving $237 billion every month to pay for everything else.

This whole debt ceiling thing is for Biden to get out of responsibility for his spending.

According to the Constitution, spending begins in the House. Biden should really allow them to lead in this dance.

Lemme check. We are only $31 TRILLION in debt so far. Pretty soon we could be talking real $$. Starve the beast.

Silliness. Republicans always lose in these debt ceiling negotiations but fail each time to learn their lesson. Everyone is gonna blame the Republicans for a default. It’ll be their legacy forever. Hell they lose at budget negotiations as well. Shutdowns always hurt republicans worse.

Democrats will play along with this farce and at the last minute they’ll toss a crumb to McCarthy and he can save face. This is way it’s been for decades and how it’ll remain.

United States govt. has gone into default a few times.

last one was, lets see, in the 1980s which ended up being very politically controversial. there was no controversy doing it until that last one which started the debt chicken game.

Interesting that NOBODY addressed under Diaper Don when he decreased revenue with his tax giveaway and then oh yeah spend spend spend

Revenues INCREASED under Trump (and his tax cuts) by almost 3/4 of a trillion dollars. It dipped slightly in 2020 (covid) and has increased since then.

Of course, they spent, spent, and spent but that was not Trump.

Interesting that NOBODY addressed under Diaper Don when he decreased revenue with his tax giveaway and then oh yeah spend spend spend Originally Posted by chefnerd

How'd it go under the O'Vommit Comet? Spread the wealth around ring any bells?

Need to increase to get stock market up.

Revenues INCREASED under Trump (and his tax cuts) by almost 3/4 of a trillion dollars. It dipped slightly in 2020 (covid) and has increased since then.

Of course, they spent, spent, and spent but that was not Trump. Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

Perhaps you should revisit your sources. Revenue increased in FY 2018 and 2019 by $100 Billion but the deficit increased by more than $300 Billion. You are equating all of FY 2021 to Trump even though his office tenure for that FY is less than 1/3. No Biden does not deserve the credit either. The credit most likely goes to the States that relaxed/eliminated the Covid restrictions as this is what fueled the growth in employment and therefore the revenue growth. Oh yeah by the way the deficit has been reduced from $3.1 Trillion to as FY 2022 year end just under $1.4 Trillion

Perhaps you should revisit your sources. Revenue increased in FY 2018 and 2019 by $100 Billion but the deficit increased by more than $300 Billion. You are equating all of FY 2021 to Trump even though his office tenure for that FY is less than 1/3. No Biden does not deserve the credit either. The credit most likely goes to the States that relaxed/eliminated the Covid restrictions as this is what fueled the growth in employment and therefore the revenue growth Originally Posted by chefnerd

I didn't reference the deficit at all, just spending. Tell me I'm wrong. And, yes, 2020 was an outlier in statistical analysis. Also, most of the spending of 2021 came from the budget signed by Trump in 2020. My sources? The US government.

Still, that is a little off topic. The topic is that the government is making enough money every month to pay off the interest on the debit, SS, our military, Medicare and Medicaid have their own source of capital. It is entirely up to the White House what will be paid for afterwards. Green shit or infrastructure? CRT or border security? No place to hide Joe.

Perhaps you should revisit your sources. Revenue increased in FY 2018 and 2019 by $100 Billion but the deficit increased by more than $300 Billion. You are equating all of FY 2021 to Trump even though his office tenure for that FY is less than 1/3. No Biden does not deserve the credit either. The credit most likely goes to the States that relaxed/eliminated the Covid restrictions as this is what fueled the growth in employment and therefore the revenue growth. Oh yeah by the way the deficit has been reduced from $3.1 Trillion to as FY 2022 year end just under $1.4 Trillion Originally Posted by chefnerd

so you are confirming Biden did nothing to increase jobs and it was all organic job recovery due to COVID


thank you valued poster

I...yes, 2020 was an outlier in statistical analysis.... Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

As it was designed to be, but we survived in spite of it. Dang their bad luck. But yes, since there is an equal sign in the equation of revenue = spending - I just do not see a sensible reason not to fix the spending side first.

Still, that is a little off topic. Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

I believe it's all related. We might not be in this mess with the debt ceiling if the Democrats hadn't legislated $5 trillion in unfunded spending when they controlled the Presidency, House and Senate in 2021 and 2022.

Please allow us a bit of latitude. Chefnerd is a bright guy, and perhaps salvageable. I shall attempt to kindly and gently persuade him. And if that doesn't work maybe LL or TC will be along to rip him a new one.

Interesting that NOBODY addressed under Diaper Don when he decreased revenue with his tax giveaway and then oh yeah spend spend spend Originally Posted by chefnerd

Perhaps you should revisit your sources. Revenue increased in FY 2018 and 2019 by $100 Billion but the deficit increased by more than $300 Billion. You are equating all of FY 2021 to Trump even though his office tenure for that FY is less than 1/3. No Biden does not deserve the credit either. The credit most likely goes to the States that relaxed/eliminated the Covid restrictions as this is what fueled the growth in employment and therefore the revenue growth. Oh yeah by the way the deficit has been reduced from $3.1 Trillion to as FY 2022 year end just under $1.4 Trillion Originally Posted by chefnerd

Ok I won't argue too hard about the "spend spend spend." Trump, Ryan and McConnell should have watched the purse strings closer. But their profligacy pales beside the Democrats' in 2021 and 2022. The $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan, which brought inflation to the USA before it hit other economies, was passed without a single Republican vote. So was the ridiculously-named Inflation Reduction Act (IRA). Goldman Sachs estimates the cost of the subsidies in the IRA will be $1.2 trillion. Who's going to benefit from this? Well, mostly renewable energy companies, which contributed generously to Democrats and their favored causes.

Some Republicans did admittedly vote for the infrastructure and chips acts. That legislation was crony capitalism at its finest, taxpayer money channeled to huge semiconductor manufacturers. And to contractors working on projects favored by the politicians who voted for the infrastructure bill.

It is not fare to describe the Republicans' Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) as a "giveaway." Well, unless you're a fan of thieves and the mafia. If a mob boss tells a merchant he only has to fork over 25% of his earnings instead of 40%, is that a giveaway? Well, maybe if you're a wise guy. More money left in hands of the people and businesses is good. That's what grows the economy, private investment and spending. Tax cuts boost GDP.

And if the TCJA was so terrible, why didn't Democrats overturn any of it when they controlled all the levers of government in 2021 and 2022?

The average federal government receipts as a % of GDP from 1970 to 2019 was 17%. In the 2021 fiscal year, receipts were 17.4% of GDP, and in 2022 they were 19.2% of GDP. In fact, receipts as a % of GDP, since 1946, have only been higher than 2022 once, in the year 2000. If the TCJA was a huge giveaway, why were government revenues as a % of GDP at almost an all time high?

You want to attribute that to a rebound from COVID. Fair enough. And yeah, when the next recession comes along, receipts as a % of GDP will undoubtedly go down. But regardless, if the TCJA caused revenues to plummet, that's just not consistent with what happened in 2022.

Remember, Biden and the Democrats made no changes of significance to the tax code after they took the reins in 2021. They did impose a corporate minimum tax, but that took effect on 1/1/2023.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S

And, by the way, a 1.4 trillion deficit in 2022 is nothing to brag about. That's 6% of GDP! And a large part of the $2.8 trillion deficit in 2021 (13% of GDP!!!) resulted from Biden's $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan.

Biden and the Democrats want a European style welfare state. But they're unwilling to raise taxes on the middle class, which is the only way to fund the welfare state. If they keep at it and win elections, the national debt will continue to go up. Federal debt held by the public is already 100% right now. That's not good. The Republicans are wise to push for spending cuts, assuming the Biden administration doesn't use the nuclear option and default. As Barleycorn says, there's a lot of room for the government to cut without stopping payments on our debt.

Tiny you know better. You say otherwise, but you know better. You actually have to because your continued argument about the benefits of the Trump tax cuts for wealthy and big business is bordering on Bambi and Saltyish.

Now as for the rest. The Republicans get massive changes as a result of their hostage taking of the threat of default. We’ve fundamentally changed how we move forward financially as a county. The Democratic president negotiated away every liberal win from Obama forward. Just terrible.

But we ain’t defaulting.