I'm a little curious what everyone thinks about the program that ATF was running to follow guns to Mexico that were bought here in the US.
In a Mexican Paper, a member of the Zetas has stated that they were getting guns directly from US government officials. (NYT)
Alternate media sources are finding that the ATF boss has been fingered to be the fallguy. On July 4th, Grassley and Issa held an inquiry with Melson, ATF, who brought his own attorney instead of the ATF attorneys. He stated that he was being directed by the DOJ not to answer any questions about the operation and direct all inquirys to the DOJ. If the FBI and DEA were also involved, then all lines lead to the DOJ.
Was the Eric Holder more aware of the operation than he is stating as an attempt to put the blame directly on the American public to force more gun control laws?
- DFW5Traveler
- 07-09-2011, 07:56 AM
- Iaintliein
- 07-09-2011, 08:20 AM
The "war on d***" and the push for more gun control laws are two sides of the same coin, control the citizenry and squeeze more money out of them.
I wouldn't be in the least surprised that the government provides arms directly to the Zeta's, after all, it was our "war on d****" money that funded their training to begin with. Those who would tear down the 2nd amendment even more don't give a damn about the facts, nor about how many lives are lost in the process.
Anyone who thinks the people who control the multi billion dollar drug business in MX are going to routinely pay American "cut outs" to pay US prices for semi-autos, then smuggle them across the most inspected border MX has, then pay someone else to change out the sear etc. to full auto just isn't thinking clearly. The cartels have more planes and boats and international contacts than most countries, they can and apparently do, buy the majority of their military grade arms and ordinance outside the US (and at much better prices).
I wouldn't be in the least surprised that the government provides arms directly to the Zeta's, after all, it was our "war on d****" money that funded their training to begin with. Those who would tear down the 2nd amendment even more don't give a damn about the facts, nor about how many lives are lost in the process.
Anyone who thinks the people who control the multi billion dollar drug business in MX are going to routinely pay American "cut outs" to pay US prices for semi-autos, then smuggle them across the most inspected border MX has, then pay someone else to change out the sear etc. to full auto just isn't thinking clearly. The cartels have more planes and boats and international contacts than most countries, they can and apparently do, buy the majority of their military grade arms and ordinance outside the US (and at much better prices).
- JONBALLS
- 07-09-2011, 08:34 AM
well, what about BUSH!!! his TWO!! UNFUNDED WARS!!!!!!!!!! GIVING TAX BREAKS TO ALLLLLLLLL THE RRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCCH HHHHHH!!!!!!!!.....Its ALL BUSH!!! how can you say Obama has responsibility for ANYTHING?? I mean ..Cmon, look at the MESS!! BUSH left?...LMFAO!!!The Obama administration ? its like it hasnt even started yet!! were STILL cleaning up ALL of BUSH's MESSSS!!!!
- Iaintliein
- 07-09-2011, 08:53 AM
LOL, well Jon, there's certainly plenty of blame to go 'round. In my opinion we've not had a common sense policy toward our southern neighbor since Ike was president.
Off hand I can think of the following examples: Nixon's "War on D****" (actually a war on personal freedom and responsibility). Regan's amnesty and doubling down on stupid by pushing more money into the already failed WOD by training and equipping Latin American anti-D forces (who later became the Zetas amongst other things). Clinton and NAFTA so now our economy is very vulnerable to what goes on in war torn Mexico. The Bush boys who did more of the same vis a vie driving more industry to Mexico, letting more Mexican under achievers into the US, spending more money controlling what Americans do with their own bodies etc.
And finally BHO who wants to turn this clusterfuck into a way to disarm Americans (just like Mexico did to their citizens).
This isn't about Gringos vs Latinos, nor is it R's vs D's, this is about a ruling elite who want to bring the citizens of the US down to the more manageable level of those who live in third world countries.
Just my opinion, of course.
Off hand I can think of the following examples: Nixon's "War on D****" (actually a war on personal freedom and responsibility). Regan's amnesty and doubling down on stupid by pushing more money into the already failed WOD by training and equipping Latin American anti-D forces (who later became the Zetas amongst other things). Clinton and NAFTA so now our economy is very vulnerable to what goes on in war torn Mexico. The Bush boys who did more of the same vis a vie driving more industry to Mexico, letting more Mexican under achievers into the US, spending more money controlling what Americans do with their own bodies etc.
And finally BHO who wants to turn this clusterfuck into a way to disarm Americans (just like Mexico did to their citizens).
This isn't about Gringos vs Latinos, nor is it R's vs D's, this is about a ruling elite who want to bring the citizens of the US down to the more manageable level of those who live in third world countries.
Just my opinion, of course.
- JONBALLS
- 07-09-2011, 08:56 AM
LOL!! I was just throwing in the sarcasm to uphold the usual back and forth...all great points.....this gun situation is worrisome, all the regulation thrown at the law abiding permit holding citizen, and then this?
- SinsOfTheFlesh
- 07-09-2011, 10:03 PM
I can't help but laugh at the irony of a gun hating President presiding over a snafu of such grossly incompetent magnitude.
Apparently, Obama only opposes law abiding Americans owning guns. Its perfectly acceptable for Mexican drug cartels to own them.
To be fair, the full scope of this screw up is nowhere close to being known yet, so I'm just waiting for more information to be able to make any judgments yet. What I find most egregious to date is the utter failure of the media to get involved. This story has been slowly simmering for months, yet it is only just now beginning to get any real play in the media. There is no doubt in my mind that if this screw up had occurred when Bush was president, we'd be hearing about it 24/7 from the day the first trickle of information came out. If this had happened under Bush, we'd all be saying "Casey who?" right now.
Apparently, Obama only opposes law abiding Americans owning guns. Its perfectly acceptable for Mexican drug cartels to own them.
To be fair, the full scope of this screw up is nowhere close to being known yet, so I'm just waiting for more information to be able to make any judgments yet. What I find most egregious to date is the utter failure of the media to get involved. This story has been slowly simmering for months, yet it is only just now beginning to get any real play in the media. There is no doubt in my mind that if this screw up had occurred when Bush was president, we'd be hearing about it 24/7 from the day the first trickle of information came out. If this had happened under Bush, we'd all be saying "Casey who?" right now.
- Whirlaway
- 07-10-2011, 05:16 AM
The WH is stonewalling the Issa investigation; refusing to turn over documents. the key ATF player has lawyerd up, the progam was apparently expanded to include countries other than Mexico, and the latest news is that the ATF gun program was financed using our stimulus money!
This has all the makings for a WH gun-gate scandal!
We will hear shortly that the administration destroyed documents to hide culpability...it's always the cover up that get's em.
This has all the makings for a WH gun-gate scandal!
We will hear shortly that the administration destroyed documents to hide culpability...it's always the cover up that get's em.
- TheTexasTornado
- 07-10-2011, 06:02 AM
- Doove
- 07-10-2011, 06:32 AM
Why all the fuss? Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Right?
RIGHT?
RIGHT?
Right?
RIGHT?
RIGHT?
- DFW5Traveler
- 07-10-2011, 07:48 AM
People kill people, yes. And sometimes poorly ran government operations designed to blame American citizens of trafficing arms to Mexico kill people also.
In Cuernavaca, Mexico on Thursday, April 2, 2009, Holder gave a briefing to Mexican officials:
Why all the fuss? Guns don't kill people, people kill people.It appears Eric Holder lied to Issa about his knowledge of Project Gunnrunner. From the DOJ website...
Right?
RIGHT?
RIGHT? Originally Posted by Doove
In Cuernavaca, Mexico on Thursday, April 2, 2009, Holder gave a briefing to Mexican officials:
...Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail...
- JONBALLS
- 07-10-2011, 07:56 AM
- Doove
- 07-10-2011, 07:59 AM
People kill people, yes. And sometimes poorly ran government operations designed to blame American citizens of trafficing arms to Mexico kill people also. Originally Posted by DFW5TravelerNope, ain't gonna work. You either rely on your extreme "guns don't kill people" argument or you don't. Inserting caveats only when it's convenient for the purpose of stoking your Obama hatred is hypocritical, and there's no other word to describe it.
- JONBALLS
- 07-10-2011, 08:17 AM
SUV's kill people also, dont forget them too!!LOL!
- Doove
- 07-10-2011, 08:22 AM
- DFW5Traveler
- 07-10-2011, 08:22 AM
Nope, ain't gonna work. You either rely on your extreme "guns don't kill people" argument or you don't. Inserting caveats only when it's convenient for the purpose of stoking your Obama hatred is hypocritical, and there's no other word to describe it. Originally Posted by DooveUhmm, that doesn't work either, this isn't about your referenced person, it's about eric holder. You can't point anywhere I said anything about the person you are referencing in this thread, can you? It's just your simple mind creating something that just isn't there and an another attempt at instigating.
Now if the investigation leads to the top, well, I guess Nixon won't be the only person impeached for a cover-up. And I'm not saying he is involved, lets just see how the investigation progresses. Especially since holder fingered DHS boss, napalitano in his breifing. So she must know about the program also. Who else knew and when did they know.