When your ATF...

is struggling to pay the bills. You buy the groceries, pay for a session so she can pay for her room but give her a pass 'cause she's had a very bad day.

You come back the next morning but she's not too hot 'cause she's been drinking the day before. So you driver her around checking apartments. Come back she's still drinking. Joe NCNS from the night before calls and says he's waiting downstairs. True blue client that you are, you say what the hell 'make some money. I'll catch you later'. Later that night she goes out partying while you check apartment and condo listings for her on your computer.

4 days pass, no courtesy 'come get your reward'. You call to ask 'what's up?' Her reply: 'Was waiting on you to call' She's good to go now 'come see me in the morning'. You get there and she's asleep and never wakes up until an hour and half later. Texts an apology and invites you back. You don't feel like driving back across town so you agree on a nap and get together later.

No call, no text, no nothing. She's partying the next day.

Feel free to comment on both persons. Of course this never really happens in hobby land, right?

Move on . . .

Ladies must be rolling and sleeping in money.

I do a have a question though, were you her helping expecting some free time. Or helping her because she is an ATF, and you genuinely want to her because of her status with you. Because there is a difference. Either way, she should try to hang out with you.

Move on . . . Originally Posted by pyramider

Let's not be hasty, you can't pay to be pussy whipped just anywhere......

...
I do a have a question though, were you her helping expecting some free time. Or helping her because she is an ATF, and you genuinely want to her because of her status with you. Because there is a difference. ... Originally Posted by lisa.lisa0302

I agree. The motive of the action here seems to be at the heart of the matter. If you're helping because a fellow human is in need and you can provide some unique assistance that she can't find elsewhere, then hang in there regardless. But if we help in those situations as a means of barter or exchange to get some free time, might as well move on--nicely. She's not in the business to provide for free and it sounds like she might be at a season in life where she can least afford to give it for free anyway.

is struggling to pay the bills. You buy the groceries, pay for a session so she can pay for her room but give her a pass 'cause she's had a very bad day.

You come back the next morning but she's not too hot 'cause she's been drinking the day before. So you driver her around checking apartments. Come back she's still drinking. Joe NCNS from the night before calls and says he's waiting downstairs. True blue client that you are, you say what the hell 'make some money. I'll catch you later'. Later that night she goes out partying while you check apartment and condo listings for her on your computer.

4 days pass, no courtesy 'come get your reward'. You call to ask 'what's up?' Her reply: 'Was waiting on you to call' She's good to go now 'come see me in the morning'. You get there and she's asleep and never wakes up until an hour and half later. Texts an apology and invites you back. You don't feel like driving back across town so you agree on a nap and get together later.

No call, no text, no nothing. She's partying the next day.

Feel free to comment on both persons. Of course this never really happens in hobby land, right? Originally Posted by legman+

I thought I knew you before my sex change operation ( JUST KIDDING )

First. You are not alone.

Second. I'd bet she is late teens or early to mid 20's, and living for the day, not thinking about tomorrow or next week or next month. You are older, mature, respected by many, and the kinda guy that goes out of his way to help others. Neither are wrong or bad, but when you put the two together, in this environment, seldom does the relationship end well for the guy (see all of the threads).

Again, you are not alone, and I have been there myself.

All of that being said, here is what I wish I had been told, and I know this may not be widely accepted but ... you are doing what you are doing because of who you are ... you need to step back and make sure you are doing it for the right reasons, and that you (and your emotions) aren't being played ... there are a ton of threads wherein guys get too emotionally involved with a Provider, and most of them are the young, party girl types, and it inevitably leads to these same types of things ... and it can truly escalate such that she starts bringing you down or your actions (to help her) start negatively impacting your life ... and that is part of stepping back - how did all of your actions impact your "real life"? Is it worth it? Have you let yourself, who may be this great all-around guy, get too emotionally involved?

As to getting freebies? Is it really free if you paid her rent, or car note?

In the end, I really believe there is a large contingent of Hobbyists, like yourself, that are great guys and we all want both the physical and mental/emotional/personal ("clicking") with a Provider ... we just have to know where that line is, and if we cross it we must be prepared for what comes ... I am not saying it is wrong to help out, and I've been there, but just make sure it is the right thing for you ... as cold as it may sound, you and your life must come before her, regardless of her problems and issues.

Best wishes, and hope this works out for you, and her.

I say move on. She's playing you like a fiddle dude.

Ladies must be rolling and sleeping in money.

I do a have a question though, were you her helping expecting some free time. Or helping her because she is an ATF, and you genuinely want to her because of her status with you. Because there is a difference. Either way, she should try to hang out with you. Originally Posted by lisa.lisa0302

NO MONEY, NO HONEY.

No never have expected anything for free. Session time was the original plan which changed when it was realized she'd taken an emotional beating. The desire to help is genuine - in this fictional scenario remember - as she is a very unusual person, remarkably so given her history. But I see someone's crystal ball is crystal clear.... below.

hookem is a very wise man. I've been through this with a young woman who wasn't a Provider. My mindset was "I can help this person, I can help her turn her life around". It was never my intention, but we ended up BCD. Then, being such a tender-hearted guy, I kept paying her bills.

Bottom line: I was actually enabling her behavior. I had to quit having her in my life because it affected me in such a negative manner and began affecting my RL. I finally realized that there was no future in this relationship from any angle and broke it off. I felt like I had failed her. But the reality was that she had failed herself. Tough and expensive lesson to learn.

Wishing you the best. Just remember that these experiences help us grow as human beings.

First. You are not alone.

Second. I'd bet she is late teens or early to mid 20's, and living for the day, not thinking about tomorrow or next week or next month. You are older, mature, respected by many, and the kinda guy that goes out of his way to help others. Neither are wrong or bad, but when you put the two together, in this environment, seldom does the relationship end well for the guy (see all of the threads).

Again, you are not alone, and I have been there myself.

All of that being said, here is what I wish I had been told, and I know this may not be widely accepted but ... you are doing what you are doing because of who you are ... you need to step back and make sure you are doing it for the right reasons, and that you (and your emotions) aren't being played ... there are a ton of threads wherein guys get too emotionally involved with a Provider, and most of them are the young, party girl types, and it inevitably leads to these same types of things ... and it can truly escalate such that she starts bringing you down or your actions (to help her) start negatively impacting your life ... and that is part of stepping back - how did all of your actions impact your "real life"? Is it worth it? Have you let yourself, who may be this great all-around guy, get too emotionally involved?

As to getting freebies? Is it really free if you paid her rent, or car note?

In the end, I really believe there is a large contingent of Hobbyists, like yourself, that are great guys and we all want both the physical and mental/emotional/personal ("clicking") with a Provider ... we just have to know where that line is, and if we cross it we must be prepared for what comes ... I am not saying it is wrong to help out, and I've been there, but just make sure it is the right thing for you ... as cold as it may sound, you and your life must come before her, regardless of her problems and issues.

Best wishes, and hope this works out for you, and her. Originally Posted by hookem69horns

Your powers of observation and intuition are astounding and your answers resonate almost exactly with my own conclusions: young, wild, not doing the TCB, typically living day to day; Probably a generational conflict of what's really important and unfortunately perhaps a bit of taking it for granted that hobbyists come and go.

Nothing is free, nor expected to be free not in this corner of the world especially. And just to clarify one thing: the groceries were bought after arriving for the session as she was hungry and hadn't eaten maybe all day. The potential of her as a person is awesome. It just seems the wild side and youth which could allow her to continue like this for years are her main problems. So the question then comes to what is ignorant irresponsibility and what's disrespect and lack of appreciation?

Seems the votes cast no middle ground here and there wasn't much of an option. It's good to know when to say when.

Personally, I thought monkmonk won.

I agree with the bottom line, and I can't understand for the life of me how these girls continue to get away with acting and treating you guy's this way Isn't that what your wives are for?? You can not help there change if they are doing nothing to help themselves. Most of you hobby to get what your not getting at home, so why put up with this type of treatment?AND PAY FOR IT?

hookem is a very wise man. I've been through this with a young woman who wasn't a Provider. My mindset was "I can help this person, I can help her turn her life around". It was never my intention, but we ended up BCD. Then, being such a tender-hearted guy, I kept paying her bills.

Bottom line: I was actually enabling her behavior. I had to quit having her in my life because it affected me in such a negative manner and began affecting my RL. I finally realized that there was no future in this relationship from any angle and broke it off. I felt like I had failed her. But the reality was that she had failed herself. Tough and expensive lesson to learn.

Wishing you the best. Just remember that these experiences help us grow as human beings. Originally Posted by LucadeJure

I'm sorry but that sounds more like a GF vs. a paid provider...just sayin.

When you allow boundaries to be crossed on either side, this is what you get. You want the "real her," that's what you got and then some.

Many women are not mature enough to be in the P4P arena, but they are young, hot, and willing...you get what you get.

If she had issues before coming here thinking money would fix them, she is doing herself a disservice. Money without a strong sense of self worth will not change a thing. It's only a temporary fix.

Personally, I thought monkmonk won. Originally Posted by TheBizz

I get him and he gets a close second place best answer. Pussy, REALLY good pussy, is a great motivator but really good pussy with a great personality is very adickting.