HONOR is it dead or on vaction

After much thought on where to post this, I have chosen this forum due to the thought that goes into so many of the replys. Of course some of those replys are so far out there Scotty couldn't beam you back. Having the opporutinity to be around an older group of guys, none of which would ever be likely to land a job that required any diplomacy,but never the less I overheard remarks such as if old so and so tells you a horse is going to lay an egg, then you might as well go outside and start building a nest. These men are the type that there word is there bond, a hand shake more binding to them than a written contract. An appointment is something you show up for five minutes early not five seconds late, makes no difference that you ran out of gas, there was a traffic jam or whatever you should of left sooner and took problems in to account. I know its hard to believe there are still a few folks out there whose word means something to them, but I swear I saw five or six this past week, they seem to be a little ragged around the edges and some of the comments that come out of their mouths even though the truth, are embarrasing. They still run to carry a package for a lady or open the door. My question is what happened in the world to change all this ?? Was it war, or did Obama cancel it. What brought about the decline of the decent and honorable parts of our existance

Hi Chelsea,

Honor's not dead, but it sure is refreshing to see such a young and beautiful woman has the ability to know it when she sees it. You've just gone way up on my wish list.
HOOK'EM

Where I grew up, million dollar land deals were done on the shake of a hand. Your word was the only thing you had and if you lost it, you would never get it back.

I believe it has declined over time as, in my opinion, we've become a very selfish society where it is all about me. Somewhere along the line, it became almost insulting to have any manners whatsoever--to both men and women. Many people are offended when you say things like "Ma' am" or "Sir". I can't tell how often I've held a door open for a woman and never even got a "thank you". Simple politeness to one another has been lost as well. Regardless, I still try my hardest to be polite, and honor my word.

It's probably the one thing that Obama hasn't affected---oh, was that my outside voice?

I agree with HOOK'EM, that it is refreshing to hear a young beautiful woman who appreciates honor.

Chivalry takes another nail in the coffin everytime "PC" takes a step forward...

I think the reasons are varied. FWIW IMO it long pre-dates Obama.

Just a few to get the conversation going.

Instant gratification has become much more entrenched in our culture; an immediate need for things ultimately helps politeness take a back seat.

The way the pendulum swung in terms of the fight for equal opportunity for women. When I was growing up opportunities for women simply were not generally the same as for men (ie Title IX - argue it was good or bad eleswhere - had not even been on the horizon). The agitiation to change that was IMO spot on, but it got more complicated when it crossed into the interaction between men and women. Certainly in college days I sometimes got the response "don't you think I can do it for myself" when I went ahead of a date to open the door for her. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

would love to honor breasts

I think the reasons are varied. FWIW IMO it long pre-dates Obama.

Just a few to get the conversation going.

Instant gratification has become much more entrenched in our culture; an immediate need for things ultimately helps politeness take a back seat.

The way the pendulum swung in terms of the fight for equal opportunity for women. When I was growing up opportunities for women simply were not generally the same as for men (ie Title IX - argue it was good or bad eleswhere - had not even been on the horizon). The agitiation to change that was IMO spot on, but it got more complicated when it crossed into the interaction between men and women. Certainly in college days I sometimes got the response "don't you think I can do it for myself" when I went ahead of a date to open the door for her. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Originally Posted by discreetgent

That is definitely how things were 5 to 10 years ago. What I see in my own experiences and interaction daily with women is that they wanted to be treated like a princess in everyday life, but they also want to be taken seriously when it comes to their ideas, believes, and opinions. I think we are moving toward a balanced attitude by women. I believe the biggest change is going to have to be made by men. I care for women and enjoy treating them like they are princesses, but everyday I see men who bump women and don't apologize or treat them like idiots. I hope this changes in the coming years, sadly I believe it will take the male population a while to change their ways.

I promise there are many men out there, which I am sure you have met a few, that will treat you like you are the only woman in the world. In my group of friends and people that I do business with, contracts are only used as a legality. In my mind a person's word is binding, and people keep their word because they believe it is the right thing to do. Well anyways hope that post wasn't too long

We have indeed turned into a nation of instant gratification and honor has taken a backseat. We must have instant e-mail, instant phone access; we walk and talk and have ear buds in to keep the world out.

It may be a generational thing. I was born and raised a Southern Gentleman, as a young man, I travelled the world with my father, watched as he closed international deals with a handshake and a smile. In my chosen profession, I too travel the world and my handshake is well known as my word of honor.

I get strange looks from women sometimes; stepping aside to allow a lady to enter or exit an elevator first; opening doors to buildings; most give me a suprised yet appreciative look.

Most telling to me; I was at a corporate dinner one evening, and a female executive at my table rose to excuse herself. I and one other gentleman rose also. The strange looks we received from others shocked me. I glanced around the table; two individuals were texting under the table, almost everyone had a phone sitting next to their right hand as though the world would end at any moment if it was not there.

Honor is not dead; as you say it may be on vacation; one would hope that maybe we just need a refresher course; to pause in our day to look up at people and nod and smile instead of looking down at our blackberries with our ear buds in.

for some psycholgical reason Chelsea, your post turned me on tremendously

Yes Chelsea,

Time for a road trip?

Where I grew up, million dollar land deals were done on the shake of a hand. Originally Posted by Buckmaster222

Oh, i'm guessing there were contracts signed too.

Somewhere along the line, it became almost insulting to have any manners whatsoever--to both men and women. Many people are offended when you say things like "Ma' am" or "Sir".

Really? Insulting to have manners? Where? I'm 44 years old, and never once have i witnessed anyone seeming offended at the term "Sir" or "Ma'am". Or appearing insulted if someone showed some manners.

I can't tell how often I've held a door open for a woman and never even got a "thank you".

Again, maybe it's Oklahoma, but in New York i don't seem to have that problem. Oh sure, maybe at times other people will be in such a hurry, or have other things on their minds to where i don't get a thank you. But in a good 9 times out of 10, both the girls and the guys say thank you to me when i hold the door. And i say thank you when the door is held for me.

I agree with HOOK'EM, that it is refreshing to hear a young beautiful woman who appreciates honor.

Then you understood her post better than i did, i guess. With it's vague nature, my assumption was simply that she was upset that a few guys showed up late for an appointment with her.....oh, and she wondered if it was all Obama's fault.

You're going to find both honorable people and dishonorable people no matter where you go and no matter when you go there. The dynamics might shift over time regarding ratios and percentages, but i really don't think we've gone from a society where you could take out a $2million loan on a handshake to where you can't. Because i don't think we were ever there.

I will make more of an effort, however, to spot the people who are insulted when i hold the door for them.

Honor and more importantly respect for others regardless of gender is how one should handle it. As mentioned before it has nothing to do with politics. We as a society are hurdling to the future and in the process manners have been neglected. Would an older more mature and experienced gentleman hold the door, bring flowers, in other ways honor a lady's presence? You betcha (that's my MO). Flowers are a fast track way to a woman's heart, whether it is the wife, co-worker, or a delightful courtesan.

As to lateness, some folks just can't do it (show up on time). Decades ago, a musician friend was always late to practice (it was a bar band, but whatever). It got to the point the other players would say practice was at 5:30. They wouldn't show up until 6:30 cause they knew he wouldn't be on time. It was amazing he would get to the gigs on time. Over the years he got a college degree, went into corporate life (which has no patience for tardiness) and still plays gigs.

I think the reasons are varied. FWIW IMO it long pre-dates Obama. Originally Posted by discreetgent

Must be GWB's fault.

Must be GWB's fault. Originally Posted by pjorourke

Tautology.

-Ww

Must be GWB's fault. Originally Posted by pjorourke

Senior or Junior or both maybe even a little florida Bush mixed in?