Yup the tree huggers at there best , no controlled burns no new water impoundments go Cali go
You see it around here when power co want to cut trees away from power lines and the home owner and tree huggers get upset , then there is a storm and we are without power?
- rexdutchman
- 11-15-2018, 08:24 AM
- tonyvicksa
- 11-15-2018, 09:15 AM
- the_real_Barleycorn
- 11-16-2018, 12:38 AM
To answer some previous attacks (not noticed by PC Moderator), I'm posting using a kindle so I can't cut and paste citations. That means someone was wrong again and it wasn't me. A number of dead trees was inflated slightly and it worked. Someone attacked the number but in the process demonstrated that they were aware of the fact. They can't deny it now. It's called a baited hook and it catches guppies.
Of course none of this changes the OP, liberal policies have caused ever increasing wild fires in California with more frequency and now the loss of life is great. We can go all the way back to Bill Clinton and his federal mandate to stop any logging in some forests and removing access to back areas by removing the roads.
People are dying on the alters of liberalism and environmentalism.
Now we can return to where leftists want to quibble over unimportant details.
Of course none of this changes the OP, liberal policies have caused ever increasing wild fires in California with more frequency and now the loss of life is great. We can go all the way back to Bill Clinton and his federal mandate to stop any logging in some forests and removing access to back areas by removing the roads.
People are dying on the alters of liberalism and environmentalism.
Now we can return to where leftists want to quibble over unimportant details.
- the_real_Barleycorn
- 11-16-2018, 02:03 AM
By the way I was referring to an interview of Marc Morano on One America News. You can look it up on climatedepot.com. You can argue with him about trees since I haven't personally counted them.
- LexusLover
- 11-16-2018, 02:47 AM
To the OP - I would like to see confirmatory links .Actually it was "brought" to the "attention" of the California Loons back in Bush II's administration when Bush commented their "conservation" regulations created the issues they have with FIRES! I'm not sure what Trump was doing back then, but it was common knowledge (to those who knew of him) that he was a Democrat.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Originally Posted by oeb11
What Bush criticized was the REFUSAL of the Liberal Tree Huggers to clear underbrush (kindling) and thin out the wooded/forest areas, particularly in areas settled for residences and support businesses for those communities. The RICH LIBERALS wanted to live in the "woods" and not disturb the "wildlife" living in the area ... and "conserve" the natural habitat.
The Liberal Tree Huggers laughed at Bush for being so ignorant, until the head of the Forest Service (with a long history of working in the FORESTS!) agreed with him. People who live in Texas know about thinning wooded areas and building fire breaks to protect farms, livestock, barns, and houses.
The Californians want to blame anybody but themselves on their failures. They struggle to run a one-car funeral. Now they want to tell Texans how to live, and stuff their ballot boxes with illegal alien votes to retain control over their failed experiment.
- rexdutchman
- 11-16-2018, 07:53 AM
Quote you are 100 % correct . The Californians want to blame anybody but themselves on their failures. They struggle to run a one-car funeral. Now they want to tell Texans how to live, and stuff their ballot boxes with illegal alien votes to retain control over their failed experiment.
This is the outcome of Liberal progressives wanting to control everything , DMN today said there may be 600 people missing / dead whole towns gone soooo go CALI .
This is the outcome of Liberal progressives wanting to control everything , DMN today said there may be 600 people missing / dead whole towns gone soooo go CALI .
- Old-T
- 11-16-2018, 08:11 AM
That, and two plus years of drought. Originally Posted by the_real_BarleycornNope, nothing to do with climate change. Not drought.
Just like changing patterns of sea temperatures, drastic changes in glaciation, ice melt, migratory patterns, rising sea levels, and the huge increase in cat 4 & 5 storms aren't really changes.
But since we know the jaguars illegally crossing the border from Mexico, and all those storms with names like Maria are really just illegal wanting to cast fraudulent votes against Trump, there can't really be any truth to any of it.
Nope, keep ignoring the data since the RWW talking points tell you to do that. Keep redefining "alternate facts and definitions" that say drought isn't climate. Big Brother Donald will tell you what to think.
- rexdutchman
- 11-16-2018, 08:25 AM
PS Some how the media will blame Dumper just you watch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- LexusLover
- 11-16-2018, 08:46 AM
Immigration vs. Illegal immigration.
Keep redefining "alternate facts and definitions" that say drought isn't climate. Big Brother Donald will tell you what to think.
Originally Posted by Old-T
Climate Change vs. Man-made changes in the conditions of Earth.
There was a "climate change" from yesterday to today.
Today it's about 10-15 degrees warmer than yesterday.
Man had nothing to do with it.
- Old-T
- 11-16-2018, 09:15 AM
Immigration vs. Illegal immigration.
Climate Change vs. Man-made changes in the conditions of Earth.
There was a "climate change" from yesterday to today.
Today it's about 10-15 degrees warmer than yesterday.
Man had nothing to do with it. Originally Posted by LexusLover
RWWs want to claim none is human induced, so they don't have to actually think about what to do. And, as you know very well but do not seem to care, it is not the day to day temp fluctuations. A complete red herring, the typical tool of Wackos.
LWWs want to think it is 100% man made, and even then they refuse to take the actions that a sane and rational person would take--clearing dead wood from the forests as one example. But then if they were sane and rational they wouldn't be Wackos, would they?
--How much is the climate changing? What are the impacts of it?
--How much can human decisions affect it (and the answer is neither 0% nor 100%, the only two acceptable answers to the fringe Wackos, L&R.)
--What should we be doing in response to the change?
But no, we cannot have realistic discussion about those questions, we have to turn it into a political debate between two wrong assumptions.
- Old-T
- 11-16-2018, 09:24 AM
The Californians....want to tell Texans how to liveYep, just like Conservative Texans whine about floods in Houston because of reckless non-zoning decisions. Soooo Texas.
Just like Texans, Thumpers, and Gun Nuts want to tell others how to live.
and stuff their ballot boxes with illegal alien votes to retain control over their failed experiment.
and how in GA, ND, Reps want to deprive legal citizens of the vote because demographically they are likely to vote Dem.
This is the outcome of Liberal progressives wanting to control everything , DMN today said there may be 600 people missing / dead whole towns gone soooo go CALI . Originally Posted by rexdutchman
Typical BS--when "they" suffer, it's their own damn fault. When "My guys" suffer, it is the evil hatred from the other side.
Hypocrites and intentional stupidity abounds on both sides. Again. Still.
- WTF
- 11-16-2018, 09:33 AM
Yep, just like Conservative Texans whine about floods in Houston because of reckless non-zoning decisions. Soooo Texas.Yep the hame is 'Blame' not Solutions.
Typical BS--when "they" suffer, it's their own damn fault. When "My guys" suffer, it is the evil hatred from the other side.
Hypocrites and intentional stupidity abounds on both sides. Again. Still. Originally Posted by Old-T
- rexdutchman
- 11-17-2018, 09:10 AM
But Cali saved 2 tree frogs,
- LexusLover
- 11-17-2018, 10:37 AM
- Munchmasterman
- 11-17-2018, 12:46 PM
trump's definition of fake news is a story that is critical of him.
Your definition of attack is someone correcting you. Your definition of slight is 102,000,000 vs. 129,000,000.
Here is another nugget.
From the NYT
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/u...ire-tweet.html
"WHAT TRUMP SAID
Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!
This is misleading.
The statement suggests that California’s forest-management problems are at fault. But the majority of California’s forests are federally held.
Of the state’s 33 million acres of forest, federal agencies, including the Forest Service and the Interior Department, own and manage 57 percent. Forty percent are owned by families, Native American tribes or companies, including industrial timber companies; just 3 percent are owned and managed by state and local agencies."
There goes "the liberal's policies" as a cause out the window.
From the same NYT article.
"It is true that California has a lot of dead timber — 129 million trees spread across 8.9 million acres, according to a Forest Service estimate.
But the dead trees themselves do not catch fire easily, because they are too big, said Chad T. Hanson, the principal ecologist at the John Muir Project of the nonprofit Earth Island Institute.
“It’s like starting a campfire,” he said. “You don’t put a big log on the fire and put a match to it and expect it to burn — it’s not going to happen. Fires are driven by kindle.”
Logging gets rid of trees, but it does not get rid of the kindling — brush, bushes and twigs. Logging does, however, enable the spread of cheatgrass, a highly combustible weed, which makes a forest more likely to burn.
In fact, the wooded land that abuts Paradise, Calif., the community so badly damaged by the Camp Fire, underwent the kind of post-fire logging that Mr. Trump’s tweet and Mr. Zinke’s article suggested. That was just under a decade ago, Dr. Hanson said, but the city is now in ashes."
And one more item from the same NYT article.
WHAT TRUMP SAID
There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor.
This is misleading.
Mr. Trump is suggesting that forest management played a role, but California’s current wildfires aren’t forest fires.
“These fires aren’t even in forests,” said Max Moritz, a wildfire specialist at the University of California, Santa Barbara.
Rather, the Camp and Woolsey fires, which are ripping through Northern and Southern California, began in areas known as the wildland-urban interface: places where communities are close to undeveloped areas, making it easier for fire to move from forests or grasslands into neighborhoods.
[Why does California have so many wildfires? There are four key ingredients.]
A 2015 report by the United States Department of Agriculture found that between 2000 and 2010 (the last year for which data was available), the number of people moving into the wildland-urban interface had increased by 5 percent. According to the report, 44 million houses, equivalent to one in every three houses in the country, are in the wildland-urban interface. The highest concentrations are in Florida, Texas and, yes, California.
It is true that California wildfires are getting larger and that most of the state’s largest wildfires have happened this century. The Mendocino Complex Fire, earlier this year, was the biggest California fire on record, as measured by acres burned. The Camp Fire is already the most destructive in state history, having razed more than 6,000 homes.
Researchers are attributing at least part of the difference to climate change, because in a warming world vegetation dries out faster and burns more easily.
And the most “deadly and costly” fires happen at the wildland-urban interface, because they damage houses, towns and lives. The Camp Fire has already matched the deadliest fire in state history, killing at least 29 people, and the death toll may rise.
“We have vulnerable housing stock already out there on the landscape. These are structures that were often built to building codes from earlier decades and they’re not as fire resistant as they could be,” Dr. Moritz said. “This issue of where and how we built our homes has left us very exposed to home losses and fatalities like these.”
Did you notice I included your 129,000,000 tree count? I'll accept that as a possible tree count but still laugh at the idea 27,000,000 out of 129,000,000 is "slight".
Here is the bill in question pulled from the link tonyvicksa provided..
"SB 1463 had been introduced in last year’s legislative session by Sen. John Moorlach, R-Costa Mesa. The bill would have required the state to identify the places most at risk for wildfires and would have required the CPUC to beef up plans to prevent fires sparked by power lines — including moving lines underground if necessary."
It wasn't about "repairing". From the same article (which was published and last updated Oct. 12 2017)
"But Brown said the bill was unnecessary. “Since May of last year, the Commission and CalFire have been doing just that through the existing proceeding on fire-threat maps and fire-safety regulations,” he said in his veto message. “This deliberative process should continue and the issues this bill seeks to address should be raised in that forum.”
But the senator isn’t buying it.
“Up until my bill those guys were doing nothing,” Moorlach said Wednesday. “I think you got some false information.”
He said his bill would’ve sped up what had become a cumbersome process and given local communities more of a voice by clarifying how fire risk is defined.
Had the governor signed his bill into law, he added, “I think it would have changed things. … I think it would’ve given Cal Fire a whole different set of priorities.”
Brown’s sister Kathleen, he pointed out, served on the board of the energy services holding company, Sempra. Power and utility companies, Moorlach said, “didn’t want to spend the money” making things safer by moving lines underground.
That’s “so outrageous it doesn’t merit a response,” Evan Westrup, a spokesman for the governor’s office, said of the notion that the governor didn’t sign the bill to somehow help out Sempra. “It’s unfortunate this particular individual is trying to score political points by peddling inaccurate, self-serving claims at a time like this.”
CPUC spokeswoman Terrie Prosper said the years-long CPUC and Cal Fire effort has already reached key goals.
Phase One was completed in 2015 and Phase Two is nearly done as well, which will implement new fire safety regulations in high priority areas of the state."
Which brings us to the Kindle issue. Which model do you have?
The ones that I saw that had wifi and that could post, had an in-house version of "Office". How could you post but not be able to "copy and paste" a web address? Have you read the instructions? Looked online for a method?
The truth?
The only thing you got right was a lot of people died. And now you assign a simple reason for the occurrence, without including any links of any kind (because your Kindle can't "cut and paste"?) to back up your position. Your Kindle explanation doesn't explain why you very, very, very seldom include links anyway.
Your final words reveal another definition of yours.
Facts = unimportant details.
Your definition of attack is someone correcting you. Your definition of slight is 102,000,000 vs. 129,000,000.
Here is another nugget.
From the NYT
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/u...ire-tweet.html
"WHAT TRUMP SAID
Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!
This is misleading.
The statement suggests that California’s forest-management problems are at fault. But the majority of California’s forests are federally held.
Of the state’s 33 million acres of forest, federal agencies, including the Forest Service and the Interior Department, own and manage 57 percent. Forty percent are owned by families, Native American tribes or companies, including industrial timber companies; just 3 percent are owned and managed by state and local agencies."
There goes "the liberal's policies" as a cause out the window.
From the same NYT article.
"It is true that California has a lot of dead timber — 129 million trees spread across 8.9 million acres, according to a Forest Service estimate.
But the dead trees themselves do not catch fire easily, because they are too big, said Chad T. Hanson, the principal ecologist at the John Muir Project of the nonprofit Earth Island Institute.
“It’s like starting a campfire,” he said. “You don’t put a big log on the fire and put a match to it and expect it to burn — it’s not going to happen. Fires are driven by kindle.”
Logging gets rid of trees, but it does not get rid of the kindling — brush, bushes and twigs. Logging does, however, enable the spread of cheatgrass, a highly combustible weed, which makes a forest more likely to burn.
In fact, the wooded land that abuts Paradise, Calif., the community so badly damaged by the Camp Fire, underwent the kind of post-fire logging that Mr. Trump’s tweet and Mr. Zinke’s article suggested. That was just under a decade ago, Dr. Hanson said, but the city is now in ashes."
And one more item from the same NYT article.
WHAT TRUMP SAID
There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor.
This is misleading.
Mr. Trump is suggesting that forest management played a role, but California’s current wildfires aren’t forest fires.
“These fires aren’t even in forests,” said Max Moritz, a wildfire specialist at the University of California, Santa Barbara.
Rather, the Camp and Woolsey fires, which are ripping through Northern and Southern California, began in areas known as the wildland-urban interface: places where communities are close to undeveloped areas, making it easier for fire to move from forests or grasslands into neighborhoods.
[Why does California have so many wildfires? There are four key ingredients.]
A 2015 report by the United States Department of Agriculture found that between 2000 and 2010 (the last year for which data was available), the number of people moving into the wildland-urban interface had increased by 5 percent. According to the report, 44 million houses, equivalent to one in every three houses in the country, are in the wildland-urban interface. The highest concentrations are in Florida, Texas and, yes, California.
It is true that California wildfires are getting larger and that most of the state’s largest wildfires have happened this century. The Mendocino Complex Fire, earlier this year, was the biggest California fire on record, as measured by acres burned. The Camp Fire is already the most destructive in state history, having razed more than 6,000 homes.
Researchers are attributing at least part of the difference to climate change, because in a warming world vegetation dries out faster and burns more easily.
And the most “deadly and costly” fires happen at the wildland-urban interface, because they damage houses, towns and lives. The Camp Fire has already matched the deadliest fire in state history, killing at least 29 people, and the death toll may rise.
“We have vulnerable housing stock already out there on the landscape. These are structures that were often built to building codes from earlier decades and they’re not as fire resistant as they could be,” Dr. Moritz said. “This issue of where and how we built our homes has left us very exposed to home losses and fatalities like these.”
Did you notice I included your 129,000,000 tree count? I'll accept that as a possible tree count but still laugh at the idea 27,000,000 out of 129,000,000 is "slight".
Here is the bill in question pulled from the link tonyvicksa provided..
"SB 1463 had been introduced in last year’s legislative session by Sen. John Moorlach, R-Costa Mesa. The bill would have required the state to identify the places most at risk for wildfires and would have required the CPUC to beef up plans to prevent fires sparked by power lines — including moving lines underground if necessary."
It wasn't about "repairing". From the same article (which was published and last updated Oct. 12 2017)
"But Brown said the bill was unnecessary. “Since May of last year, the Commission and CalFire have been doing just that through the existing proceeding on fire-threat maps and fire-safety regulations,” he said in his veto message. “This deliberative process should continue and the issues this bill seeks to address should be raised in that forum.”
But the senator isn’t buying it.
“Up until my bill those guys were doing nothing,” Moorlach said Wednesday. “I think you got some false information.”
He said his bill would’ve sped up what had become a cumbersome process and given local communities more of a voice by clarifying how fire risk is defined.
Had the governor signed his bill into law, he added, “I think it would have changed things. … I think it would’ve given Cal Fire a whole different set of priorities.”
Brown’s sister Kathleen, he pointed out, served on the board of the energy services holding company, Sempra. Power and utility companies, Moorlach said, “didn’t want to spend the money” making things safer by moving lines underground.
That’s “so outrageous it doesn’t merit a response,” Evan Westrup, a spokesman for the governor’s office, said of the notion that the governor didn’t sign the bill to somehow help out Sempra. “It’s unfortunate this particular individual is trying to score political points by peddling inaccurate, self-serving claims at a time like this.”
CPUC spokeswoman Terrie Prosper said the years-long CPUC and Cal Fire effort has already reached key goals.
Phase One was completed in 2015 and Phase Two is nearly done as well, which will implement new fire safety regulations in high priority areas of the state."
Which brings us to the Kindle issue. Which model do you have?
The ones that I saw that had wifi and that could post, had an in-house version of "Office". How could you post but not be able to "copy and paste" a web address? Have you read the instructions? Looked online for a method?
To answer some previous attacks (not noticed by PC Moderator), I'm posting using a kindle so I can't cut and paste citations. That means someone was wrong again and it wasn't me. A number of dead trees was inflated slightly and it worked. Someone attacked the number but in the process demonstrated that they were aware of the fact. They can't deny it now. It's called a baited hook and it catches guppies.Like the facts?
Of course none of this changes the OP, liberal policies have caused ever increasing wild fires in California with more frequency and now the loss of life is great. We can go all the way back to Bill Clinton and his federal mandate to stop any logging in some forests and removing access to back areas by removing the roads.
People are dying on the alters of liberalism and environmentalism.
Now we can return to where leftists want to quibble over unimportant details. Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn
The truth?
The only thing you got right was a lot of people died. And now you assign a simple reason for the occurrence, without including any links of any kind (because your Kindle can't "cut and paste"?) to back up your position. Your Kindle explanation doesn't explain why you very, very, very seldom include links anyway.
Your final words reveal another definition of yours.
Facts = unimportant details.