Confused about Trump's actions yesterday

I am confused and feel like I have been whipsawed!

Let me start by saying that I have been pro-Trump since his first campaign for President. But I am surprised and confused by yesterday's most dramatic events

My understanding had been that Ukraine was a sovereign nation illegally invaded by Russia. And that Putin was cruelly causing the death of hundreds of thousands of people (both Ukrainian and Russian) as well as the destruction of the culture and civilization of Ukraine. And that we, the USA and its Allies, were the good guys, backing the Ukrainians to protect and preserve their country.

But then yesterday, on TV at least, it looked (to me) like both Trump and Vance were school yard bullies and Zelenskyy, the victim, sitting there in the Oval office looking like "a deer in the headlights"

The issue seems to be that Zelenskyy wants security guarantees tied to his agreement to allow the USA access to Ukraine's rare earth minerals. Given what Ukraine has suffered at the hands of the Russians:

- unbearable death and destruction (they can't even have gov't meetings with the lights on in their offices because of the threat of Russian drone strikes);
- the history that they gave up their nuclear weapons in exchange for guarantees from the UN that they would come to the defense of Ukraine if needed - a promise that was not fulfilled; and
- Putin's failure to comply with various agreements he made with Ukraine during the course of this war, etc, etc

Zelenskyy's focus on getting security guarantees included in current negotiations is understandable. In fact, it seems to me that access to Ukraine's rare earth minerals is the only card Zelenskyy has to play. So agreeing to give this away without security guarantees seems like it would, in my opinion, be foolish. But then I am not an international diplomat.

What am I missing to understand Trump's position?

I'll buy you a round of shots Don.



What's happening is a bully is attacking someone innocent.

The victim is asking the US for help
The US is demanding the victim to hand over their lunch money, but won't commit to helping stop russia from attacking them now or in the future.
Ukraine refuses, because it's an unfair proposition.



How's that fair?

The cease fire that Zelinsky refused would lead to negotiations to end the war. Then you can negotiate all other points.

You're on the right path Don

I'd say the op has made the most clear headed post in a while here.
Trumpf had a chance at peace and blew it. A small concession to secure the mineral deal. Trumpf says no. When it's in the best interest for everyone..

Zelensky is a deep state puppet. He just his people out to dry. Trump wasn’t go into the Oval Office and dictate terms. He was to supposed to sign the deal twice previously. Then he asked for the WH meeting. Then he acts like a punk. Fuck him.

If all the Ukraine flag ���� accounts actually cared about the well-being of the Ukrainian People, they would be begging Zelensky to take Trump’s deal and spare the lives of the remaining Ukrainian soldiers.

But they don’t actually care.

They treat this like a football game. They are just cheering on their favorite team, hoping they make comeback, completely disassociated from the fact that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are dying horrific deaths, fighting a war they never had any chance of winning. They are being slaughtered.

The pro-Ukraine ���� accounts are either USAID-paid propagandists, or they are petulant imbeciles larping online. They have zero loyalty to Ukraine, they have no desire for peace, and they don’t care how many innocents have to die. In fact, they want the war to escalate and for other nations to put boots on the ground for them. They want global war and full-scale WW3, not peace.

They are perfectly fine sending other people to die, while they post memes on the internet all day. The only reason they don’t want a ceasefire, is because they are not the ones being sent to the meat grinder.

The ironic thing is, Trump is the only leader on Earth who is fighting for the well-being of the Ukrainian People, not Zelensky. Trump wants them to live. Zelensky wants them all to die to maintain his grift. To the last Ukrainian.

Zelensky is a deep state puppet. He just his people out to dry. Trump wasn’t go into the Oval Office and dictate terms. He was to supposed to sign the deal twice previously. Then he asked for the WH meeting. Then he acts like a punk. Fuck him. Originally Posted by bambino

Post and trumpfs actions reflect bad diplomacy. If you want peace, you don't act like trumpf and suka jd did.

Watch. Draw you own conclusions

If all the Ukraine flag ���� accounts actually cared about the well-being of the Ukrainian People, they would be begging Zelensky to take Trump’s deal and spare the lives of the remaining Ukrainian soldiers.

But they don’t actually care.

They treat this like a football game. They are just cheering on their favorite team, hoping they make comeback, completely disassociated from the fact that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are dying horrific deaths, fighting a war they never had any chance of winning. They are being slaughtered.

The pro-Ukraine ���� accounts are either USAID-paid propagandists, or they are petulant imbeciles larping online. They have zero loyalty to Ukraine, they have no desire for peace, and they don’t care how many innocents have to die. In fact, they want the war to escalate and for other nations to put boots on the ground for them. They want global war and full-scale WW3, not peace.

They are perfectly fine sending other people to die, while they post memes on the internet all day. The only reason they don’t want a ceasefire, is because they are not the ones being sent to the meat grinder.

The ironic thing is, Trump is the only leader on Earth who is fighting for the well-being of the Ukrainian People, not Zelensky. Trump wants them to live. Zelensky wants them all to die to maintain his grift. To the last Ukrainian. Originally Posted by bambino

Exactly.

When the world disapproves of Americas actions, as some did after the meeting, it shows they want to see US fail, and the Ukraine war to go on.

Remember, this is just one month into the Trump presidency, Europe does NOT have the resources, doesn't want to spend the money, and they don't have the political clout to pull to force a peace.

That meeting should NEVER have taken place until after the deal had been signed, it would have NOT give Z a chance to try and upstage the event.

He is a BEGGAR, demanding we give him more, not the people in Europe, US, the USA to bear even more burdens by attempting to make us put FEET ON THE GROUND IN UKRAINE.

Now, all of you answere ONE question honestly, do we want to put Americans into Ukraine for the next 20 years to maintain the peace, and pay for it, when WE ARE BROKE???

Watch. Draw you own conclusions Originally Posted by HDGristle

Little late, if anyone is here commenting that HASN'T seen it, then they shouldn't be here.

Security agreement = Ukraine membership in nato. That would be incredibly stupid. We’re already in a proxy war, were they a member we’d be obligated to step in with more than funding.

The ending here is obvious and unavoidable.

Security agreement = Ukraine membership in nato. That would be incredibly stupid. We’re already in a proxy war, were they a member we’d be obligated to step in with more than funding.

The ending here is obvious and unavoidable. Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Insanity, NATO membership started this entire situation, just the talk of it, now, that would be suicide.

I wasn't even considering it was just more than wanting US bodies sent to die for them.

Trump would never accept NATO membership as an action, in fact, it might drive the USA from NATO, and anymore, I'm not sure its a bad thing to happpen.

Little late, if anyone is here commenting that HASN'T seen it, then they shouldn't be here. Originally Posted by Devo

Not late at all, D. Anyone who hasn't has a place to watch it and then comment on who they think the bigger bitch was

And no, J. NATO membership is only one for of security guarantee. Keep telling you to think more broadly and I mean it.

When that gaymo grifter got out of the SUV in his Kmart issued dungarees, Trump should have told him to leave. That was disrespectful from the jump. But Trump did bust his balls. He said look, he got dressed up today!!!! It was over before it started.