The Occupy Wall Street movement is just one example of the sudden outbreak of tension between America's super-rich and the "other 99 percent." Experts now say the US has entered a second Gilded Age, but one in which hedge fund managers have replaced oil barons -- and are killing the American dream.
Has the US become and Oligarchy?
- Sensia
- 10-30-2011, 05:39 PM
- Guest061614
- 10-30-2011, 10:52 PM
We've been an oligarchy for years. Surely since WWII ended.
- Sensia
- 10-30-2011, 11:21 PM
Seems to be quite a few who feel that democracy in our country should be liberal democracy. I have been reading different literature on the subject and found this one persons blog on the subject:
"Liberal democracy is a form of representative democracy where elected representatives that hold the decision power are moderated by a constitution that emphasizes protecting individual liberties and the rights of minorities in society, such as freedom of speech and assembly, freedom of religion, the right to private property and privacy, as well as equality before the law and due process under the rule of law, and many more.
Such constitutional rights, also named liberal rights, are guaranteed through various controlled institutions and various statutory laws. Additionally the constitution of most of the contemporary liberal democracies protects the rights of individuals and minorities, and prohibits the will of majority (majoritarianism), by almost eliminating that rule in practice.
Some would argue that liberal democracy isn't democratic or liberal at all. They would argue that "liberal democracy" does not respect majority rule, except when citizens are asked to vote for their representatives, and also that its "liberty" is restricted by the constitution or precedent decided by previous generations. They would argue that, by prohibiting citizens the right to cast votes on all issues—especially for serious subjects like going to war, constitutional amendments or constitution abolishment etc.—this turns "liberal democracy" into the precursor of oligarchy.
Others would say that only a liberal democracy can guarantee the individual liberties of its citizens and prevent the development into a dictatorship. Unmoderated majority rule could—in this view—lead to an oppression of minorities."
Then found this online:
http://www.oligarchy.net/
"Oligarchy Is Not Democracy"
The first and second definitions of democracy in Webster's dictionary are:
1: "a government by the people;
esp : rule of the majority -
2: a government in which the supreme power is held by the people."
There seems to be a lot of different view points on the subject. I am very interested in hearing other viewpoints.
I wanted to ask you Budrn, why do you think we went from a democratic nation to an oligarchy since WWII ended?
"Liberal democracy is a form of representative democracy where elected representatives that hold the decision power are moderated by a constitution that emphasizes protecting individual liberties and the rights of minorities in society, such as freedom of speech and assembly, freedom of religion, the right to private property and privacy, as well as equality before the law and due process under the rule of law, and many more.
Such constitutional rights, also named liberal rights, are guaranteed through various controlled institutions and various statutory laws. Additionally the constitution of most of the contemporary liberal democracies protects the rights of individuals and minorities, and prohibits the will of majority (majoritarianism), by almost eliminating that rule in practice.
Some would argue that liberal democracy isn't democratic or liberal at all. They would argue that "liberal democracy" does not respect majority rule, except when citizens are asked to vote for their representatives, and also that its "liberty" is restricted by the constitution or precedent decided by previous generations. They would argue that, by prohibiting citizens the right to cast votes on all issues—especially for serious subjects like going to war, constitutional amendments or constitution abolishment etc.—this turns "liberal democracy" into the precursor of oligarchy.
Others would say that only a liberal democracy can guarantee the individual liberties of its citizens and prevent the development into a dictatorship. Unmoderated majority rule could—in this view—lead to an oppression of minorities."
Then found this online:
http://www.oligarchy.net/
"Oligarchy Is Not Democracy"
The first and second definitions of democracy in Webster's dictionary are:
1: "a government by the people;
esp : rule of the majority -
2: a government in which the supreme power is held by the people."
There seems to be a lot of different view points on the subject. I am very interested in hearing other viewpoints.
I wanted to ask you Budrn, why do you think we went from a democratic nation to an oligarchy since WWII ended?
- CuteOldGuy
- 10-30-2011, 11:27 PM
I think plutocracy is a better term. Actually a plutarchy.
- Sensia
- 10-30-2011, 11:43 PM
I think plutocracy is a better term. Actually a plutarchy. Originally Posted by CuteOldGuyActually we may be heading in that direction. I don't think we are completely there yet...imho
When I hear wealthy educated people saying things like "uneducated people shouldn't be allowed to vote" and things along those lines.. I start thinking we are definitely heading down that road. When only the wealthy hold all the power and make all the decisions and the majority are no longer heard and all but ignored. Hmmmm.... interesting.
As it stands now the people can protest and can still vote elected officials out of office.
- CuteOldGuy
- 10-31-2011, 12:13 AM
Guilty, I am beginning to think that the rights to speech and protests are only tolerated by the ruling elite. And as far as voting out the elected officials, we'll see how the computerized vote totals come out.
- Sensia
- 10-31-2011, 02:13 PM
- DFW5Traveler
- 10-31-2011, 10:41 PM
The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the Bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.. corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money powers of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed. - Abraham Lincoln
A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader. - Samuel Adams to James Warren, February 12, 1779
"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing." - John Adams
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself." - John Adams
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams (The Works of John Adams, ed. C. F. Adams, Boston: Little, Brown Co., 1851, 4:31)
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Benjamin Franklin
"Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature.... If the next centennial does not find us a great nation ... it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces." - James Garfield, the twentieth president of the United States, 1877
"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry, American colonial revolutionary
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry
A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader. - Samuel Adams to James Warren, February 12, 1779
"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing." - John Adams
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself." - John Adams
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams (The Works of John Adams, ed. C. F. Adams, Boston: Little, Brown Co., 1851, 4:31)
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Benjamin Franklin
"Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature.... If the next centennial does not find us a great nation ... it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces." - James Garfield, the twentieth president of the United States, 1877
"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry, American colonial revolutionary
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry
- CuteOldGuy
- 10-31-2011, 11:21 PM
Great quotes, DFW5. This is why our Founders did not leave us a democracy. We were created as a Republic. A society based on the rule of law, not the whim of the majority. Unfortunately, we have left that behind, and will soon meet the fate predicted by our Founders.
- I B Hankering
- 10-31-2011, 11:28 PM
Great quotes, DFW5. This is why our Founders did not leave us a democracy. We were created as a Republic. A society based on the rule of law, not the whim of the majority. Unfortunately, we have left that behind, and will soon meet the fate predicted by our Founders. Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy+1