is Trump backing down with his tail between his legs..

Some posters come up with the strangest reasonings and arguments when their leader is failing.

libtards siding with China lol? hell, i'm a libtard and i think we should wipe China off the map before it's too late..

when you treat your allies like dirt, the obvious question comes to mind: who is a more reliable trading partner, Trump's USA, or China? unfortunately, as of now, the correct answer is China..

you don't crap on your friends if you want to maintain good relations. it's not rocket science. really..

Trump could have united the entire western world against China. instead, he somehow managed to unite the entire world against us. how in the hell..

if you're unhappy with U.S. manufacturing, fix that with incentives, like Biden did. starting trade wars does nothing to fix problems with American manufacturing and a lack of exports. i'm all for a goal of trade surpluses.

Texas has a net trade surplus. go Texas! Texas has no tariffs, btw. we did it the old fashioned way, by beating the competition.. Originally Posted by pxmcc

Interesting post. I strongly agree with the bold text and strongly disagree with the red text. In other words, well said, except that China's not an existential threat to the USA. By working together, the USA and China would both benefit, as would the rest of the world. Most board members, regardless of their political leanings, agree with you about China though.

i noticed you disagreed with trade surpluses being good. there is a good example from history to illustrate.

sometime in the 1800s or thereabouts, GB was running a trade deficit with China. so England was sending more money to China than they were sending back to England.

so how did GB make up the shortfall? with crown silver..

well England needed an export. what did they settle on? opium. turned China into a bunch of drug addicts. and that is how England solved their trade deficits with China..

great powers who want to remain great do not run trade deficits and budget deficits year after year. that is why i support Trump's goal, if not his methods..

one more point. you took issue with Biden's mfg incentives. in the IRA, Biden introduced several incentives for re-shoring silicon wafer manufacturing. his initiatives have been highly sucessful, especially in red districts. he gave Trump a perfect model of how it's done. and starting trade wars isn't it.

i will be hear your rebuttal-if i represented your positions correctly-because i find your posts generally inciteful and typically well-supported

Interesting post. I strongly agree with the bold text and strongly disagree with the red text. In other words, well said, except that China's not an existential threat to the USA. By working together, the USA and China would both benefit, as would the rest of the world. Most board members, regardless of their political leanings, agree with you about China though. Originally Posted by Tiny

... WHY would Trump want to "unite the western world" AGAINST China??

We're talking tariffs here - and Trump and America are seeking
fair trade tariffs... FOR America.

#### Salty

Who can explain why a huge, high earning wealthy nation with plenty of discretionary income cannot sustain trade deficits ?

The only thing I have heard is jobs today in the service sector do not pay well compared to lost manufacturing jobs.

b/c China is an international scoundrel.
maybe one of my esteemed colleagues can enlighten Salty on all the fuckery China has engaged in, from IP theft, subsidies, forcing Amer cos to "partner up", etc..

the list is long and grievous..

... WHY would Trump want to "unite the western world" AGAINST China??

We're talking tariffs here - and Trump and America are seeking
fair trade tariffs... FOR America.

#### Salty Originally Posted by Salty Again

b/c China is an international scoundrel.
maybe one of my esteemed colleagues can enlighten Salty on all the fuckery China has engaged in, from IP theft, subsidies, forcing Amer cos to "partner up", etc..

the list is long and grievous.. Originally Posted by pxmcc

... We're talkin' TARIFFS here - NOT crimes against Humanity.
Tariffs and Fair Trade... Anything else is wasting bandwidth.

#### Salty

Who can explain why a huge, high earning wealthy nation with plenty of discretionary income cannot sustain trade deficits ?

The only thing I have heard is jobs today in the service sector do not pay well compared to lost manufacturing jobs. Originally Posted by VitaMan

... Hmmm.. So - the United States should just sustain
the trade deficits?? ... ...

That's what sheep do -- and it's a baa - baahhh -- BAD idea!

#### Salty

It would have helped if you could explain it.

Salty, i'm on topic. human rights and their threats to Taiwan and their other neighbors are important too, but not related to this specific topic.

if none of my colleagues has time, when i get a second-prolly not til Monday tho-i'll give you a full rundown on all the trade-related fuckery China has engaged in. they take much and return little.

... We're talkin' TARIFFS here - NOT crimes against Humanity.
Tariffs and Fair Trade... Anything else is wasting bandwidth.

#### Salty Originally Posted by Salty Again

Salty, i'm on topic. human rights and their threats to Taiwan and their other neighbors are important too, but not related to this specific topic.

if none of my colleagues has time, when i get a second-prolly not til Monday tho-i'll give you a full rundown on all the trade-related fuckery China has engaged in. they take much and return little. Originally Posted by pxmcc

... You're a fair-minded poster, mate... So, let's stay-with
yer thoughts on China and them being shithouse rats on trade.
I have little doubt that you are CORRECT on that.

... But if that is so - then I'd surely stand to reason
that you'd then SUPPORT President Trump as He seeks
a fair trade agreement with China.

#### Salty

Sheep? You talkin' sheep mate?

No bleatin' way!


I think we'd all support President Trump if he wasn't a raving, despotic lunatic and a "fair trade agreement" is what he sought.

But that's not the case.

It’s almost as if the “Left” is rooting for The Chicoms.

Which is likely true since TDS compels them to do so. Originally Posted by Jacky S

What you are hearing is the indoctrinated fearful subconcious in your head that wants a big dick to be your savior. Unfortunately for all of us he was likely never the person for the job. He is not completely stupid and he is certainly bold so maybe he can still learn on the job or we are likely to be bacnruptcy number 7.

... You're a fair-minded poster, mate... So, let's stay-with
yer thoughts on China and them being shithouse rats on trade.
I have little doubt that you are CORRECT on that.

... But if that is so - then I'd surely stand to reason
that you'd then SUPPORT President Trump as He seeks
a fair trade agreement with China.

#### Salty Originally Posted by Salty Again

I don't think he's looking for fair trade agreements Salty. If he were, he wouldn't be imposing a 10% minimum tariff on, for example, Singapore, which doesn't charge ANY tariffs on our imports. Or Australia, which charges small tariffs and with which we have a trade surplus. You should agree with that. We shouldn't charge a stinkin' tariff of Australia, it's our greatest friend and ally.

Trump has made it perfectly clear that he thinks that Europe is screwing America. Why shouldn't they take the side of China instead of the US? Why shouldn't they think that Trump is bullying China the same way he is bullying them? Originally Posted by txdot-guy

He's not the master strategist he thinks he is. If he wanted to gang up on China, as you say he should be palling up to Europe. And he should have participated in the Trans Pacific Partnership.