Another quagmire in the Middle East…..

I'd agree, but regardless we're stuck now. I don't really see an easy outcome of this like the clueless in charge think will happen - lobe some missiles, maybe a few sorties with the bombers and then the population overthrows a deeply entrenched government.

Let's say it happens, then what?? Does he think they'll have an election and install someone who loves Israel and America? Sure, I believe that's just around the corner in Iran...right after North Korea becomes a democracy. Or just another authoritarian leader who will plot revenge? Which is more likely?

Pull back and leave the current admin in place? I'm sure they won't go after Israel, or our bases and troops in the area and cause American casualties. Oh wait, they've done that before.


Two criminals doing anything to keep their own asses out of jail, and could care less about the lives of their soldiers that it will cost. Originally Posted by 69in2it69

Are you channeling Hillary Clinton?

Pretty much, Trump just started World War III. This will go down in history as American aggression led by Trump.

Our standing in the world has been demolished by Trump, and he now has us in a quagmire that will last decades.

elg….. Originally Posted by elghund

World War III ended in 1991...we won.
World War IV started in 2001...still don't know the outcome.

Are you channeling Hillary Clinton? Originally Posted by Schwarzer Ritter

WTF are you talking about?

Pretty much, Trump just started World War III. This will go down in history as American aggression led by Trump.

Our standing in the world has been demolished by Trump, and he now has us in a quagmire that will last decades.

elg….. Originally Posted by elghund

Trump isn't the reason he's just the vehicle that moved things into play. Isreal is the reason.

Actually the person to blame is Jimmy Carter. He dealt with Arafat and raised his profile from murderous terrorist to diplomat. He cut off aid to the Shah and he forced the Shah to allow Khomeini to leave Paris for Iran. The rest is bloody history brought to you by the godfather of modern terrorism, James Earl Carter Jr.

Trump is just cleaning up another democrat mess.

Khamenei = Dead

Great work by President Trump, Secretary Hegseth and the rest of our armed forces.

Khamenei = Dead. Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Yep.

Luckily, I found a tape of his last phone conversation with Trump...

Now what? A monument??

...I look forward to...what I predict will be...your unquestioning defense of this, no matter what happens....
. Originally Posted by rooster

I look forward to… what I predict will be….your unquestioning opposition to this, no matter what happens…. Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

It won't be a win for you.

Spoiler alert: I'm opposed to all war.

FUCKING ALL OF IT in modern times...with the exception of WWII, when it was forced on us and we made justifiable, rational decisions to get involved (and should not have waited so long).

But what I should have said initially...is that I anticipate...your unquestioning defense of all things Trump...especially when it involves force...no matter who is killed or what the reasoning for those deaths are....

Thousands will likely die here, at the hands of Netanyahu, Trump, and the Iranian response.

We have been misled yet again. And we have learned nothing from conflicts like Viet Nam and Afghanistan.

.

It’s a win already. Iran’s leadership has been eviscerated and citizens are in the streets doing the electric boogaloo.

Iranians Celebrate Strikes That Killed the Country’s Leaders

By Feliz Solomon
and
Henna Moussavi

Many Iranians celebrated as news spread that the U.S. and Israel said Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei had been killed. A man in the northern city of Karaj told The Wall Street Journal that the streets filled with people, cheering and whistling.

“The truth is people were counting down to the strikes, continually asking when will they hit, when will they hit?” the man said. “Everyone is joyful, it is one of the best days of probably 95% of Iranians’ lives.” Before long, however, the man said he heard gunshots and people quieted down and dispersed.

Video footage ... showed crowds gathering on a busy street in Karaj, cheering and clapping as passing cars honked.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/ira...7b4dsRT1xmEanE

It’s a win already. Iran’s leadership has been eviscerated... Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

I actually want you to be correct. The sooner this ends, the less people die.

The definition of "win" will always be a point of debate...for all except mindless cheerleaders....

.

If you automatically support something because your side said it and reject it because the other side did, you’re not thinking. You’re just cheering.

Some things are complicated. This is one such thing. Trump is neither 100% wrong nor 100% right in this matter. He is right in that the world is better off with a de-fanged Iran. And the majority of Iranians are delighted to be rid of the Ayatollah.

He is wrong in that he is doing this unilaterally, without congressional authorization. And within a week, he should march up to Capitol Hill and demand such an authorization. Put those cowards in Congress on the spot ... make them vote. Truly, they do not want to have the responsibility that the Founders gave them for declaring war, because in hindsight they could turn out to be wrong either way ... and congressmen/women who vote "wrong" don't get re-elected ... and that is the only thing that truly matters to any of them.

So in such an environment, Trump exceeds his constitutional authority. I wish he didn't. But sometimes you have to. I wish he would go demand the authority tomorrow -- he would probably get it.

The critical error is thinking that we own whatever country we wreck. As long as our boots never hit the ground there, that the Iranian people take it from here, then history will be kind to Trump on this. If instead, he gets sucked into an occupation, that will turn out to be a bigger disaster than Iraq.

Trump did not exceed his authority, the law on this is clear. Notification to Congress beforehand on something like this would be a huge mistake, they leak like a 72 Chrysler. If you don’t think democrats would have tipped our hand to the Iranians just to make Trump look bad, likely resulting in the deaths American servicemen, you’re giving them way too much credit.