I can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet

You can not compare the accidental death caused by drunk drivers to the deliberate murder, planned and executed by those who hate all things American. Drunk drivers are responsible for their own actions and punished by courts of law. Banning beer because some drink to the point of drunkeness would be like banning guns because some people kill with guns (oh wait...they already trying to do that!) Most people that kill with guns are criminals killing law abiding citizens or other criminals. In my post there is nothing incorrect. ALL the persons who planned and executed the murders of 3000 innocent Americans were Muslim. In the serveral attempted additional attacks since 9/11 all the perps were Muslim. The leader of the group trying to build this Mosque has stated on record that the United States by its actions in the Middle East and by its support of Isreal caused the attack on the towers. I am not saying that most Muslims are bad people. Some are. Most are not. What is a fact is that most Americans are insulted by these people who have the lack of sensitivity and understanding about how they feel about building a 100 million dollar 15 story Mosque in that location. Especially the people of NY City. Why do it? What is their agenda?
I am not supporting a ban on their building the Mosque in the location they choose. I am not supporting any sort of violent action against them. In my opinion, they want to build it there just because they legally can do it. Just to grind their heals into the groin of the people of NY and cause them more pain. Why won't they agree to move it a few more blocks way? Why not compromise? A little compromise would diffuse the tension be a great PR move.

People need to start putting footnotes, quotes, and link to back up their statements, if you want to make a real point, because I feel like most of the substance in peoples arguments are just hearsay.

People need to start putting footnotes, quotes, and link to back up their statements, if you want to make a real point, because I feel like most of the substance in peoples arguments are just hearsay. Originally Posted by SkylarCruzWantsYou

My sentiments exactly!

Why won't they agree to move it a few more blocks way? Why not compromise? A little compromise would diffuse the tension be a great PR move. Originally Posted by Jdriller

"A few more blocks way" is a very general term. How many blocks are in a "few?" In an effort to narrow it down even more, how many blocks does it take before it finally becomes acceptable to you?

Is it 2 more blocks?
Is it 4 more blocks?
Is it 20 more blocks?
Is it 120 blocks?
Is it somewhere in between but not among those listed above?
Or is it more than 120 blocks?

Once you have reached your own personal level of acceptability, can you say with any degree of certainty that each and every person will also find that same level acceptable?

Bottom line: This is an emotional issue and there are no easy answers. Each individual has his/her own level of acceptability. While Jdriller might find it acceptable to move the mosque "a few more blocks way." I might not find it acceptable until they agree to move it 20 blocks. Still others might not find it acceptable until it is moved 120 blocks. And how do we handle it, if and when an individual changes their mind the following day or the day thereafter? And so on and so forth!

Quite frankly, there is no "one size fits all!"

Perhaps we should poll the posters in this forum. Let's take an average and submit the final number to the "powers that be." While we are at it, we might want to consider polling those who made the decision to erect a statue of the General of the Confederate States, Robert E. Lee, at the battlefield of Gettysburg!

As for me, I do not believe they will build the mosque in the current location.

Then again they might!

While Jdriller might find it acceptable to move the mosque "a few more blocks way." I might not find it acceptable until they agree to move it 20 blocks. Still others might not find it acceptable until it is moved 120 blocks. And so on and so forth! Quite frankly, there is no "one size fits all!" Originally Posted by bigtex

Exactly. Which is why we should default to the objective argument and go with what the law says rather than have a big fat argument over what everyone subjectively thinks is right.

And i find it interesting that most of the people who seem to know what their true intentions are, in spite of what they say their intentions are, are from the same cloth as those who claim Obama is really a Muslim, in spite of what he says he is. In other words, they seem to know an awful lot of things that nobody else knows - including the people they're talking about.

Why won't they agree to move it a few more blocks way? Why not compromise? A little compromise would diffuse the tension be a great PR move. Originally Posted by Jdriller

I tend to agree as a compromise being a good PR move, but NYC real estate doesn't really work that way. When and if you find a place that is suitable for your business (church, mosque,community center, or whatever), you better be ready to negotiate the purchase (or the lease) right away. It maybe less so when the economy is bad, but still....

You can not compare the accidental death caused by drunk drivers to the deliberate murder, planned and executed by those who hate all things American.. . Originally Posted by Jdriller

I can and did. Do you want to ban me from doing so! Protest that I should not be able to point out how absurd your thin skinned argument is? Cause when we boil this down , that is all this is. People say it hurts their feeling for this church to be built where it is. Tough shit. Seriously , we have a nation of whiners.

. Drunk drivers are responsible for their own actions and punished by courts of law. Banning beer because some drink to the point of drunkeness would be like banning guns because some people kill with guns (oh wait...they already trying to do that!) . . Originally Posted by Jdriller

I am not for banning beer or guns of crying like a titty baby about some damn church being built because it might hurt some Ney York City Slicker feelings.

Most people that kill with guns are criminals killing law abiding citizens or other criminals. . Originally Posted by Jdriller

That is a pretty good comparison with the terrorist. You making my case for me?

. In my post there is nothing incorrect. . . Originally Posted by Jdriller

A Rooster crows, the Sun comes up. Nothing in that sentence is incorrect. What is your point? That you can imply incorrect beliefs such as denying all Muslims from building a church near ground zero and that is correct? If so then you might have us all believing that without that Rooster, the Sun wouldn't rise!

. ALL the persons who planned and executed the murders of 3000 innocent Americans were Muslim. . . Originally Posted by Jdriller

Most were from Saudi Arabia. We attacked Iraq/Afghanistan (but mainly Iraq). Were you protesting that we were attacking the wrong country at the time? I think not. What this is is a shameful political ploy by politicians exploiting the reactionary nonthinkers amongst us.

. In the serveral attempted additional attacks since 9/11 all the perps were Muslim. The leader of the group trying to build this Mosque has stated on record that the United States by its actions in the Middle East and by its support of Isreal caused the attack on the towers. Originally Posted by Jdriller

Which is in fact true. Our support of certain policies has bred contempt by a certain segment of the Muslim society. Surely you have enough sense to know this. What he said was true the day he said it and it is still true today. So you want to deny a perfectly legal church from being built because its leader spoke the truth?

. . I am not saying that most Muslims are bad people. Some are. Most are not. . Originally Posted by Jdriller

And guns don't kill people, bad people with guns do. Go after the bad people, not moderate Muslims. Your own arguments are being used against you....surely you are starting to see your hypocrisy? Do you ask a persons religion before determining if you will treat them? What about a hospital near ground zero.....should its doctors not treat Muslim Americans there?

Should Muslims Americans NOT be able to go near ground zero?


that is the real question

I can and did. Do you want to ban me from doing so! Protest that I should not be able to point out how absurd your thin skinned argument is? Cause when we boil this down , that is all this is. People say it hurts their feeling for this church to be built where it is. Tough shit. Seriously , we have a nation of whiners.
I am not for banning beer or guns of crying like a titty baby about some damn church being built because it might hurt some Ney York City Slicker feelings.
That is a pretty good comparison with the terrorist. You making my case for me?
A Rooster crows, the Sun comes up. Nothing in that sentence is incorrect. What is your point? That you can imply incorrect beliefs such as denying all Muslims from building a church near ground zero and that is correct? If so then you might have us all believing that without that Rooster, the Sun wouldn't rise!
Most were from Saudi Arabia. We attacked Iraq/Afghanistan (but mainly Iraq). Were you protesting that we were attacking the wrong country at the time? I think not. What this is is a shameful political ploy by politicians exploiting the reactionary nonthinkers amongst us.
Which is in fact true. Our support of certain policies has bred contempt by a certain segment of the Muslim society. Surely you have enough sense to know this. What he said was true the day he said it and it is still true today. So you want to deny a perfectly legal church from being built because its leader spoke the truth?
And guns don't kill people, bad people with guns do. Go after the bad people, not moderate Muslims. Your own arguments are being used against you....surely you are starting to see your hypocrisy? Do you ask a persons religion before determining if you will treat them? What about a hospital near ground zero.....should its doctors not treat Muslim Americans there?
Should Muslims Americans NOT be able to go near ground zero?
that is the real question
Originally Posted by WTF

you are either loki the impish norse god or supermans pain in the ass Mr. MXYZPTLK

i think you are MR. MXYZPTLK..come now..you have been exposed..but please keep your pants on

Actually I have and treat many Muslims in my practice. I get along fine with them. I don't like it that some of the female patients are not allowed to be in the same room with a male staff member or Doctor. Fortunately, I do have a female Doctor and female staff who can provide services for those females I am prohibited from treating by the males who bring them in. I bothers me that the females are being treated that way. Patriotism or not is not a factor in deciding to treat any patient.

Bush did the same thing. 'Supposedly' intercepted? Did they hack the bank? You always work in the realm of make believe or just what Fox tells you?


Typical spin. The tax payers also fund the police, the overtime, and the garbage cleanup every time the tea baggers decide to hold a hand holding rally. Who do you think paid to keep the G Beck zombies in line in Washington? We the people. Originally Posted by Sa_artman

There were few cops in view during the 9/12 Tea Party last year and from the pix on the Internet, there were few at the GB rally. I suspect there were more at the Al Sharpton march but don't know that for a fact.

Hate to break it to you, but I don't watch Glen Beck nor am I a member of the Tea Party. If I work in the realm of make believe, I at least back it up with sources...unlike your make believe. Did the taxpayers pay for the cleanup and police for The Million Man March or the Redskins game and what does that have that to do with sending an imam overseas to declare victory?


Saw the cover of the Daily Globe at the local supermarket. OK, its not a credible source...but its not FOX!

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Fox News has never claimed that Obama was a muslim. In fact, I've heard many commentators opine that it is absolutely untrue. Please get your facts from Fox. They'll be more accurate.

The leader of the group trying to build this Mosque has stated on record that the United States by its actions in the Middle East and by its support of Isreal caused the attack on the towers. Originally Posted by Jdriller

Jerry Falwell (and probably Pat Robertson too, among other Christian leaders i'm sure) blamed America also. Not for our actions in the Middle East necessarily, but for our actions here at home. Not only did he blame American liberalism, but he even made it clear he thought God - his Christian God - was working in concert with the terrorists. In other words, he stated, in not so uncertain terms, that 9/11 was the act of his Christian God, as retribution for our heathen ways.

So really, why are we having this discussion about the Muslim guy again?

I don't like it that some of the female patients are not allowed to be in the same room with a male staff member or Doctor. Fortunately, I do have a female Doctor and female staff who can provide services for those females I am prohibited from treating by the males who bring them in. I bothers me that the females are being treated that way. Originally Posted by Jdriller

And if not for the secular legal system in this country (or what's left of it), a pretty large swath of Christians in this country would treat gays just as badly, if not worse. And probably blacks too, if we were honest with ourselves. Not to mention atheists.

. Patriotism or not is not a factor in deciding to treat any patient. Originally Posted by Jdriller

Well some are thinking it shouldn't be when deciding where to build a church.

That is the point...feelings shouldn't get in the way of the law. If they do , then we should change the law. Shouldn't we strive for Equal to mean Equal for ALL trhough?

And if not for the secular legal system in this country (or what's left of it), a pretty large swath of Christians in this country would treat gays just as badly, if not worse. And probably blacks too, if we were honest with ourselves. Not to mention atheists. Originally Posted by Doove

Don't forget the women folk! Wasn't to long ago they were begging whitey just to vote. Those damn liberals are near as bad as the Muslims, come to think of it! They done fucd it up for all us white men folk.

you are either loki the impish norse god or supermans pain in the ass Mr. MXYZPTLK

i think you are MR. MXYZPTLK..come now..you have been exposed..but please keep your pants on Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

I gotta get you a decoder ring....Man are you outta da loop!

How big does this Muslim free zone have to be in Manhattan?

And is it OK in your book to have a Christian free zone?

Is a Muslim free zone compatible with your view that the State, in the First Amendment, can't interfere with the free exercise of religion?

And if not for the secular legal system in this country (or what's left of it), a pretty large swath of Christians in this country would treat gays just as badly, if not worse. And probably blacks too, if we were honest with ourselves. Not to mention atheists. Originally Posted by Doove

Why single out Christians? In general there seems to be a lot of hating from man kind as a whole.

Why single out Christians? In general there seems to be a lot of hating from man kind as a whole. Originally Posted by Ansley

I won't disagree. But pointing out that we atheists also treat people like sh*t wouldn't have had quite the same kick to it.

Why single out Christians? In general there seems to be a lot of hating from man kind as a whole. Originally Posted by Ansley

Correct!! Afterall.... what was Cain's beef with Abel? If you believe in stories.... humankind is nothing but incest, run amok anyway!

All this talk about tying terrorism to Theistic Philosophy is wasted when we're really just talking about bands of Worthless Billy Bad Asses, who need their asses obliterated whenever given the chance!!

Giz