HF,
I honestly appreciate your commentary.
Thank you.
And I apologize if it seems I am trying to Demonize anybody.
It's easy to demonize in hindsight and I do understand that the nature of this topic can bring out raw feelings especially in those who have direct ancestors BUT, if the subject is an "honest discussion" as I keep hearing calls for, then the fact that some Blacks, not predominately or even close, did own slaves and that slavery existed in every culture by every race of people on earth. If that can't be said and accepted as history, then there is no honest discussion to be had.
I am not. I am just being extreme to try to illustrate that our antecedents did have a part in things.
But rarely does being "extreme" compliment a discussion of such a sensitive topic, Again, as hard as it is to hear and I take no pleasure in repeating it, the antecedents of slaves played a part as well. They did the selling. Can a satisfactory argument be had when asking which is worse, selling another human being for profit or buying another human being for profit? If one insists one is infinitely worse than the other, that is not a rational argument IMHO. Both are equally bad. If we can't start there and agree with that and many, many will not, can not, then there will probably never be a discussion that leads to an honest outcome.
And it seems on this board some want to white-wash that.
I think the majority of those offering a response to you, tried, as I did, not to white-wash it but to put it in context. Problem is, when any White person tries to put context into the discussion, it is seen as white-washing. As with today's Progressives, you either have to agree with everything they say or you must shut up. There is no other context but theirs and under those circumstances, we will never be able to have that honest discussion on race that is being called for. How do you have on honest discussion when one side says you must accept their point of view? With that, you have yourself an Israeli- Palestinian "discussion" that leads to no solution at all. If one side can not say to the other that I accept your right to exist or in this case the right to your opinion ( as long as it is factual ) then again, there is no honest discussion to be had and I believe that is where we are in race relations today. One side demands that their position is the only position to be heard.
I understand that what many White people did in the past was terrible, I acknowledge that but I'm am not, can not, will not apologize for something I had no part in. If my acknowledgement that it was wrong isn't sufficient and I offer to have an honest discussion but one will have to hear what I have to say and that offer is rejected..... what am I to do but walk away and no discussion will be had?
And it is obvious there his still hostility toward minorities on here.
And can you understand that if one perceives hostility towards oneself, they answer with hostility? I think you just acknowledged that your words may have come across as "demonizing" all White people. Is it not then understandable that you just might get some hostility back? But your acknowledgement that your words could be perceived that way and an apology on your part, for me at least goes a long way in trying to foster that discussion.
I grew up with that Jim Crow shit and was too young to know anything.
Me too. I'm 72 and my mother worked at what was called a 5 and 10 cent store, called a dollar store now a days and I vividly remember the signs over the water fountains "colored" and Whites. In some cases the rest rooms had the same sign, in some cases, restrooms were not available to Blacks.
I remember movie theaters with separate entrances. Some that had balcony's were reserved for Blacks only.
I remember concerts when Blacks and Whites sat on opposite sides of the room separated by rope.
I didn't really understand the historical significance of it all either. One thing I am thankful for, is that my parents were no racists. While they "went along to get along" as many Whites did back then, they did not speak disparagingly about Blacks in our home. I was in a unique situation in my high school here in Miami, Fl when in 1964, the first Black student came to our high school. As it turned out, we were both on the track team. His appearance knocked me down on place on the relay team but I was still the 4th best runner on the team. We became friends.
As much as I hate to admit it after saying my parents weren't racist, I never invited him over to my house. Maybe I did understand the limits at the time but out side, we spent many hours together at track and away from school. So that is how I first experienced a Black person and it was a good experience. I then joined the Navy which was integrated so I shared a sleeping compartment with a few Black sailors and in the first job I had, I had Black associates. I have never nor will I ever judge a person solely on the basis of skin color. I judge people on their character but I'm not afraid of being called a racist when I point out the obvious crime statistics that show a disproportionate amount of crime by Blacks.
I am not trying to lay it only at the feet of white people.
But I have to tell you, that's how it came across. If one only mentions the buying as I said and does not mention the selling, that is laying all the transgression at the feet of the buyer.
But I disagree on one thing ;
I do feel that "in America" slavery was predominantly a white atrocity. Originally Posted by sportfisherman
But here is the thing, nobody ever said that Blacks owned more slaves than Whites although that seems to be what you heard. It was never said giving us another example of how difficult this conversation can be if we don't hear what people are actually saying. I think you possibly thought the person making the point about Black ownership of slaves was hostile to your views and you then assumed hostility towards him and heard something that was not said.
Yes, in America, slavery was a predominately White atrocity but the conversation can not end there as many insist than it does. If a White person can not present the FACT that some Blacks owned slaves, there can be no conversation. I think Blacks and some Whites believe that if you allow that FACT into the conversation, it "dilutes" your point and you can't have your point diluted. I think that is the problem today. We can't allow our narrative to be "corrupted" by some truth.
While "institutional racism" has almost been eliminated by laws, the law doesn't always work or work fast enough to satisfy people. The law says you can't discriminate but sometimes people do and the remedy is to sue. To think that no one will ever discriminate again, is to be naive but the law is there, the intention to right this wrong is there.
Right now the obvious intention is to punish police that abuse their authority but it still happens. I see just the other day that a cop had a guy in a choke hold and I ask myself, "how can that be, hasn't he heard"? But I understand what a difficult job a cop has and it is getting more difficult by the day because so called Progressive leaders will do nothing to quell this idea that it is now acceptable to physically fight a cop. That will never be acceptable as even Mayor DeBlasio acknowledged. That will be anarchy in the streets if fighting a cop, putting a cop in a choke hold as we say the other day, is acceptable. The only place you can fight a cop is in a court of law, period.
