If the Feds Won't Do It...

Doesn't that take a lot of the fun out of it? Originally Posted by pjorourke

"GOAL!"

Two points:
1) The fact that someone is engaging in an activity that may have illegal implications doesn't change their ability to recognize the fact that another activity is illegal. Using you logic, we'd never be able to convene a jury -- everyone violates some laws -- even if inadvertently.

. Originally Posted by pjorourke

I was pointing out hypocrisy. I was also pointing out that some think prostitution worse than illegal immigration all things being equal. And Finally I was pointing out that just because people believe a certain way does not make it true.......mainly that immigrants are a net benefit to our country not a net drag. So with all that I do realize Voir dire is the most important process in how juries judge others. So just what jury we pick on this immigration debate is important....a look in the mirror never hurts.

Some experts believe that 85% of cases litigated are won or lost in the jury selection phase.


^ Fahringer, Herald Price (1993-1994), Mirror, Mirror on the Wall ...: Body Language, Intuition, and the Art of Jury Selection, 17, Am. J. Trial Advoc., pp. 197, http://heinonlinebackup.com/hol-cgi-bin/get_pdf.cgi?handle=hein.journa ls/amjtrad17&section=11

2) The concept of boarders is fundamental to the issue of legality. If there were no borders, there could be no law. Who would the laws apply to? Laws are conventions of behavior adopted by a geographic set of people. Originally Posted by pjorourke

Borders change....Laws change. What is your point PJ. That we should not fix bad outdated laws? Is NAFTA bad? If not why stifle immigration with draconian laws?

Word! Pass the jalapeno's

I’ve categorically said that I do not believe that Mexican workers need to be driven from our sovereign soil. I just think they need to be documented; pay their fair share of the taxes; exempt from entailments and not made citizens. If they want to be citizens, they need to do more than work here. They need to invest, beyond working, living and paying taxes, in the US. Except that I think that we should have a lottery for Mexicans just like we do for other nationals, I agree with the current ways Mexicans can become citizens or legal residents.

Yes, illegals pay taxes, but there are many taxes they don’t pay or that don’t get paid by the employer. They pay sales and property taxes because these taxes are unavoidable. I don’t know that I quite agree from personal experience that 2/3 of the illegals pay federal taxes. Now 2/3 of them may have false SSN’s or EIN’s. But those with EIN’s may or may not pay taxes. It depends on if they file them. If they don’t, then they don’t pay taxes because there is no withholding by the companies or individuals that 1099 the EIN holder. Another big tax that not paid into the system is employer taxes: 941’s, state taxes where applicable and unemployment insurance. Of course, an illegal would never file for unemployment.

I personally know several people that use the emergency room as a doctor’s office. And they aren’t just Mexicans. They are EVERYWHERE. The reason many do is because they don’t have access to everyday medical care. That’s an easy fix, and it isn’t the current health care bill. Neighborhood health clinics would serve just fine.

And, yes illegal children are putting a drain on the school systems in this country. I think that to be educated in this country you need to have a SSN, a birth certificate showing US citizenship, or a legal resident alien card to enroll in school. I know I had to have a birth certificate to enroll in school and to enroll my daughter. If these parents want their children educated, they need to educate them in Mexico or have the father hop the boarder with a coyote like they used to.

We need a source of cheap labor, but please – they don’t work for that little! Nothing is wrong with documenting them.
The pendulum has swung at least for now until the coming crop of legal children of illegal parents that vote. I see no hope of actually getting an amnesty through congress. The anti-immigrant backlash is only going to get more intense. And I think it will really get bad when Hispanics start voting in mass. It will be interesting to see if they stick to the Democrats when they actually have something to loose and nothing to gain.

I’ve categorically said that I do not believe that Mexican workers need to be driven from our sovereign soil. I just think they need to be documented; pay their fair share of the taxes; exempt from entailments and not made citizens. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

I've shown you studies where they pay in more than they take out. If you do not believe the studies, that is your prerogative.

If they want to be citizens, they need to do more than work here. They need to invest, beyond working, living and paying taxes, in the US.
Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Maybe we should make that the standard for a US citizen to CONTINUE to be a US citizens! LOL

I wonder what the boarder would think of that. Originally Posted by pjorourke

Of all people I would have thought you would have gotten the pun.
Think about it. That's the way liberals think of them. Say WTF or TTH.
To them, they are paying their way.

Of all people I would have thought you would have gotten the pun.
Think about it. That's the way liberals think of them. Say WTF or TTH.
To them, they are paying their way. Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

If you are going to make it as a comedian, you need to work on your delivery.

I agree. But you don't get to Carnegie Hall without practice.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...e-disparities/

Now this is just crazy....fence jumper Pepe wants equal wages and Obama's administration wants to help him....

Well that should cut down on demand for Pepe's labor.

Well, the good news is that I can’t imagine an illegal alien calling up the government and saying. “Ya, this is Jose, and I am here and working in The States illegally. I work at so and so place and they aren’t paying me a fair wage. What form do I fill out to give you may name, address and cell phone number so you can contact me when your investigation is done” I really just can’t see that happening.

In the article the Labor Department spokesperson stated that the labor laws protect all labors, but an unnamed source says that contradicts the actual law which states that the worker must be here legally. It’s crazy. Anyone care to venture how much they are paying on this ad campaign. Oh well, I guess it is cheaper than soliciting and managing actual campaign contributions.

Well after the Anointed One grants all of the illegals amnesty, that won't be a problem:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...anket-amnesty/

Well, the good news is that I can’t imagine an illegal alien calling up the government and saying. “Ya, this is Jose, and I am here and working in The States illegally. I work at so and so place and they aren’t paying me a fair wage. What form do I fill out to give you may name, address and cell phone number so you can contact me when your investigation is done” I really just can’t see that happening.

. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Crazy is the word I used, too.

In practice this is how it will work: Jose won't have to call an 800 number himself.

He will confide in the Mexican version of



WAIT FOR IT....



WAIT FOR IT....



WAIT FOR IT....



a "Community Organizer" that will call the Dept of Labor and report that PJ's Construction is mistreating and/or underpaying its workers. PJ will get a knock on his door from the DOL. They'll explain that the legality of his workers is of no concern. That's for the INS to deal with, but if he doesn't pay Jose more, he gonna have trouble with the DOL.

2) The concept of boarders is fundamental to the issue of legality. If there were no borders, there could be no law. Who would the laws apply to? Laws are conventions of behavior adopted by a geographic set of people. Originally Posted by pjorourke

As in surfing? Or the behavioural codes within British private schools (legitimised buggery, mostly)?

Law is rather more than convention within lines on a map. Even an uber-pragmatist with a preference for political myopia should be able to acknowledge that.

A world government guy I presume?