America is not broke...

It remains to be seen if the short notice for the Conference Committee violated Wisconsin's Open Meeting law. I understand that the Republicans claim that it only applies to regular sessions, not special sessions. I have no idea. But if the Republicans can get it through the courts, so be it. Both sides are engaged in brinkmanship and you do what you can with the hand you're dealt. And that includes the aggressive use of the rules to your benefit, just as the Democrats used the quorum rule. You can't play hardball with the rules and then complain when the other side does the same thing. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

The good thing for the Democrats in Wisconsin is that I think that they have come out of this unified and motivated. And Wisconsin has a recall statute. Expect to see some very hotly contested recall elections of elected officials from both parties in Wisconsin from both sides of the aisle this summer. And those races will draw boucoups of national money on both sides. Very interesting to watch. But I think that the Democrats have come out of this looking better than the Republicans and polls in Wisconsin show that to be true there, too. Originally Posted by TexTushHog

So hard ball is not so nice when the other team plays it? Think of this as a down payment on the payback for all the Obamacare shit.

But we do agree that both sides (here in WI by the Reps and in DC by the Dems) won elections that gave them "the nuts". The opposing sides were left with political gamesmanship, demonstrations and general caterwauling. Elections do have consequences.

Now if it turns out that the WI Reps pushed too hard and lost the middle, they will in fact get spanked at the polls during the next election. Seems hard to remember that Nancy had an iron-clad majority in the House too -- a distant memory now. This may motivate WI's Left flank to come out and vote, but they can't win without the middle -- that is where the action is. Walker has 3 years to make good on what he's done. If he pulls off an Indiana, there is no way he loses the middle.

Walker may not have 3 years by WI law he can be recalled in Jan 2012 I believe.

After 1 year they need to gather 500k signatures for a recall vote.

Its a shame we don't have that deal at the Federal level.

Its a shame we don't have that deal at the Federal level. Originally Posted by pjorourke

I'm sure you could push it through as a Constitutional Amendment. The ERA didn't make it, but I'm sure the knee-jerks in this country would make it happen. You should start now, PJ.

After 1 year they need to gather 500k signatures for a recall vote. Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

That might be doable if there is still enough anger, but anger does tend to dissipate.

He might be OK if he ads the 250k jobs he promises.

He might be OK if he ads the 250k jobs he promises. Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

If he can do that, he alone can control the economy. I don't think any one person can do that.

If he can do that, he alone can control the economy. I don't think any one person can do that. Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

But government can put conditions in place that help with job creation (ps don't tell PJ that)

yeah, basically by getting the hell out of the way.

How about you pair that with very strict term limits (e.g., no more than four terms in the House and Two in the Senate with a further cap on any government work at any level*) and you might have a deal.



*i.e. make these turkeys go get a real job and make a payroll. Originally Posted by pjorourke

All term limits do is empower staff at the expense of members. If that's what you want, more power to you. Not my idea of reform, however. I think it takes probably six or eight years in office just to learn how to move bills and build coalitions. Getting rid of people who know how to legislate and leaving the important decisions to permanent staff seems to me would aggravate the perceived problem that you seek to solve.

As for your comment about getting a job, the dozen or so members of Congress that I personally know, to a man (and woman), took a pay cut to go there. Most, by a factor of three or four (at least if you only count salary and exclude investments, oil and gas income, etc.). That's the only way that they can afford to serve. And for those who leave (whether they leave voluntarily or otherwise) they always -- ALWAYS -- have made at least two to four times as much when they left. (Save and except one who foolishly got caught up in a very public national sex/paternity scandal while running for President.)

I wasn't suggesting that these guys couldn't make a living, I was suggesting that they need a dose of real life after a period in DC -- making laws ain't it. Small government remember.

I guess we will have to term limit the staff too.

One thing's for sure, the 1,500 state employees who now get to keep their jobs likely won't sign a recall. . .unless it's for a democrat.

Michael Moore is one of my favourite americans :-) love and adore him. :-) Originally Posted by ninasastri

I just came across this and thought this was the right place for it.

America is not broke?

Dave Ramsey had a nice analogy....

Imagine you had household income of $58,000 per year, but spent $75,000 per year plus had $327,000 in credit card debt.....now assume you decided to solve your financial problems by cutting your spending down to $72,000 per year....your problem would be solved, right?

Supposedly these numbers are proportional to the national financial mess.....


Lets see:
310,000,000 people
$14,000,000,000,000 debt
$100,000,000,000,000-$200,000,000,000,000 unfunded SS/Medicare obligation
Obamacare?
Money in the Al Gore lockbox = $0 [shhhhhhhhhhhh...don't let the leftists hear this]

Broke?