Pre and Post Workout Formulas?

I hear ya, and many people say the same thing, that they feel like it makes a difference, which is why they continue to do it. I doubt you've conducted a controlled test on yourself with and without supplements while keeping everything else equal and even if you tried it's very difficult to do given how plateaus/adaptation and muscle growth works. Add in the placebo effect, which any scientist will tell you is very real, and it's almost pointless to conduct such an experiment on yourself anyway with a sample size of N=1 , but hey man if it works for you go for it.

Also, no disrespect to your trainer but unless he's a scientist and keeping meticulous records for analysis, he's just repeating anecdotal evidence as perceived through the lens of his own confirmation bias or citing small, poorly conducted, and statistically insignificant "studies" paid for by the manufacturers for use in marketing material.

Even if it IS due to placebo though, at the end of the day if people feel like it helps then why not I suppose.

Spice, you're such a buzzkill sometimes

Spice, you're such a buzzkill sometimes Originally Posted by YummyMarie

lol sorry! Here's some underwater hippo acrobatics to make up for it, they're really quite agile!

If you want a gainer that's great and doesn't taste like shit try Myogenix After Shock! It's got about 58 grams of protein and 600 calories best of all it taste like cookies and cream milk shake.

N.O. explode has been good to me when I've used it but the downside to it is the bloat but other than that it's been alright.

N.O. Pro Complex is worth looking into also for post. The protein to calorie ratio isn't bad. Of course don't forget to take some BCAA's man.......dont go for the liquid dymatize man it taste like absolute shit.

One more company to look into Zan is Beverly International. The ingredients in the products I suggested to you have been researched and the dosing by these companies are mostly listed per ingredient. Again they are most effective with good nutrition.

I hear ya, and many people say the same thing, that they feel like it makes a difference, which is why they continue to do it. I doubt you've conducted a controlled test on yourself with and without supplements while keeping everything else equal and even if you tried it's very difficult to do given how plateaus/adaptation and muscle growth works. Add in the placebo effect, which any scientist will tell you is very real, and it's almost pointless to conduct such an experiment on yourself anyway with a sample size of N=1 , but hey man if it works for you go for it.

Also, no disrespect to your trainer but unless he's a scientist and keeping meticulous records for analysis, he's just repeating anecdotal evidence as perceived through the lens of his own confirmation bias or citing small, poorly conducted, and statistically insignificant "studies" paid for by the manufacturers for use in marketing material.

Even if it IS due to placebo though, at the end of the day if people feel like it helps then why not I suppose. Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

When you start moving weight in the gym with 20 + yrs of training experience then maybe I'll take you more seriously. Right now while I agree with some of what you say you just sound like a nerd that can barely lift 100 lbs spewing the same shit you rail against. But I hear ya ;-)

When you start moving weight in the gym with 20 + yrs of training experience then maybe I'll take you more seriously. Right now while I agree with some of what you say you just sound like a nerd that can barely lift 100 lbs spewing the same shit you rail against. But I hear ya ;-) Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

Ahh yes the unprovoked Ad Hominem, the last refuge of a weak mind. I thought we were just having an interesting conversation, didn't realize you were so emotionally invested.

Ahh yes the unprovoked Ad Hominem, the last refuge of a weak mind. I thought we were just having an interesting conversation, didn't realize you were so emotionally invested. Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

nice retort. I like it.

While I appreciate the passion and effort you extend in your responses and while I really do like how you champion yourself, it seems you have a usual habit of misinterpreting my gift of gab. ;-) I acknowledged you had some merit but for the most part I don't think it's an insult to say you sound like a nerd trying to make a case for the couch potatoes.

You're making a case these manufacturers and trainers don't have valid scientific theory or methods and that their empirical evidence is all irrational but I simply believe they have more knowledge and expertise in this area than you do. It really is that simple. Do you really think you're going to transform yourself from an All-star review writer to Stephen Hawking all in a single day and sell me on it? If so you got life and bullshit all fucked up my friend. lol

Lastly, and in line with that last thought let me give you a tad bit of real talk. lol - Just because your independent provider reviews are typically on point don't get it twisted and get yourself caught up in the hype my friend.

Never get high off your own supply. ;-)

One more company to look into Zan is Beverly International. The ingredients in the products I suggested to you have been researched and the dosing by these companies are mostly listed per ingredient. Again they are most effective with good nutrition. Originally Posted by racegear20

I will thanks bro

Rich Froning CrossFit champion for the last four years and "fittest man on earth" uses Advocare products.
I have lost 60 pounds since March using Advocare products. I believe in Advocare 100% and feel it changed my life.

nice retort. I like it.

While I appreciate the passion and effort you extend in your responses and while I really do like how you champion yourself, it seems you have a usual habit of misinterpreting my gift of gab. ;-) I acknowledged you had some merit but for the most part I don't think it's an insult to say you sound like a nerd trying to make a case for the couch potatoes.

You're making a case these manufacturers and trainers don't have valid scientific theory or methods and that their empirical evidence is all irrational but I simply believe they have more knowledge and expertise in this area than you do. It really is that simple. Do you really think you're going to transform yourself from an All-star review writer to Stephen Hawking all in a single day and sell me on it? If so you got life and bullshit all fucked up my friend. lol

Lastly, and in line with that last thought let me give you a tad bit of real talk. lol - Just because your independent provider reviews are typically on point don't get it twisted and get yourself caught up in the hype my friend.

Never get high off your own supply. ;-) Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

Heh you're a funny guy, I'm glad you think highly of my reviews I suppose, though I fail to see what that has to do with the current discussion.

More ad hominem this time at least veiled thinly, I suppose I should be used to your cheap tactics by now eh? If by nerd you mean intelligent and educated I believe I'll take it as a compliment, though personally I stopped calling people nerd around the time I grew pubic hair.

As to couch potato I hardly think not buying into pre/post workout supplementation makes me such, nor does my current workout regimen invalidate my position. You're sounding more and more like the BroScience spouting meatheads I was kidding around with you about before.

No I'm suggesting that studies conducted by manufacturers and used in marketing tend to produce biased results that I do not put much stock in, especially in unregulated industries. And trainers have no more knowledge of the pharmacokinetics of supplements than construction workers have in depth knowledge of metallurgy, it is cursory at best and self selected confirmation bias at worst.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on the subject but was merely pointing out that it is an unregulated industry where anyone can say anything they want to sell a product and most of it is understudied just like the rest of the vitamin industry.

As I said before though, if you feel like you get something out of it that's great. Even if it were 100% placebo effect, which we'll have to agree to disagree on the percentage, that makes no difference because the end result is the same.

Also like I said before, I'm mostly fucking around with you, try not to get your panties in a bunch

P.s. I can lift 100lbs...with my kegel PC muscle dick flex

Best post workout supplement for me is dumpster diving behind Vic and Anthony's after a full day of fucking.

I have lost 60 pounds since March using Advocare products. I believe in Advocare 100% and feel it changed my life. Originally Posted by stickitinyou

Congratulations on your Lifestyle Change sweetie and keep up the good work

Rich Froning CrossFit champion for the last four years and "fittest man on earth" uses Advocare products.
I have lost 60 pounds since March using Advocare products. I believe in Advocare 100% and feel it changed my life. Originally Posted by stickitinyou

Say Advocare one more time.

You sound like a sales rep simmer down

EDIT:



Pyramid scheme, seems legit bro.

P.s. I can lift 100lbs...with my kegel PC muscle dick flex Originally Posted by SpiceItUp

^^^Don't underestimate yourself; I know for a FACT that you can do 135 lbs (on a pre-workout diet of red wine too!)