When your ATF...

My question:
How in the hell did she come to be your ATF?

Torito

Great advice has been given, but until YOU'VE had enough, you will continue to enabler her behavior!

We've all been in the same situation sometime in our lives.....I know I have when it came to a relationship! Deep down, I knew it wasn't good for me, but I kept telling myself, "If only he would change". He didn't, and after many, many years, I changed myself!

It may cost you dearly, but one of these days, YOU will have enough!

Good luck to you, honey!

Great advice has been given, but until YOU'VE had enough, you will continue to enabler her behavior!

We've all been in the same situation sometime in our lives.....I know I have when it came to a relationship! Deep down, I knew it wasn't good for me, but I kept telling myself, "If only he would change". He didn't, and after many, many years, I changed myself!

It may cost you dearly, but one of these days, YOU will have enough!

Good luck to you, honey! Originally Posted by Lana Warren

I agree. Does not matter whether business or real life.

Torito

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

You are an ENABLER.

Has she really played you like that?
Don't you think it's odd that she has time & money to get her drink/party on, yet she can't pay her bills, buy groceries, or have time for you??
I WOULD CALL BULLSHIT AND MOVE ON.

It's "chumps" like you that allow GIRLS to get away with "this" sort of behavior. Sorry to be so blunt, but if you want things to be different, you've got to wake up!

Notice I said "Girls" not "Women".
A real woman would have her shit together & appreciate if someone helped her out.



Good luck.

I guess I am very fortunate with my atf. Occassionally I help her out with maybe advance money when she needs it or maybe a trip to the store when her car is broken down or maybe just a special gift. I do that because I like and trust her as a person. I do this without asking or expecting favors in return. In exchange she has taken me to dinner and insisted on paying, nice little favors and given me extra time. We both seem to be givers by nature and don't try to take advantage of each other. Better than many relationships I've had in civi life.

First. You are not alone.

Second. I'd bet she is late teens or early to mid 20's, and living for the day, not thinking about tomorrow or next week or next month. You are older, mature, respected by many, and the kinda guy that goes out of his way to help others. Neither are wrong or bad, but when you put the two together, in this environment, seldom does the relationship end well for the guy (see all of the threads).

Again, you are not alone, and I have been there myself.

All of that being said, here is what I wish I had been told, and I know this may not be widely accepted but ... you are doing what you are doing because of who you are ... you need to step back and make sure you are doing it for the right reasons, and that you (and your emotions) aren't being played ... there are a ton of threads wherein guys get too emotionally involved with a Provider, and most of them are the young, party girl types, and it inevitably leads to these same types of things ... and it can truly escalate such that she starts bringing you down or your actions (to help her) start negatively impacting your life ... and that is part of stepping back - how did all of your actions impact your "real life"? Is it worth it? Have you let yourself, who may be this great all-around guy, get too emotionally involved?

As to getting freebies? Is it really free if you paid her rent, or car note?

In the end, I really believe there is a large contingent of Hobbyists, like yourself, that are great guys and we all want both the physical and mental/emotional/personal ("clicking") with a Provider ... we just have to know where that line is, and if we cross it we must be prepared for what comes ... I am not saying it is wrong to help out, and I've been there, but just make sure it is the right thing for you ... as cold as it may sound, you and your life must come before her, regardless of her problems and issues.

Best wishes, and hope this works out for you, and her. Originally Posted by hookem69horns

I second this. You are such a good person for trying to help her out. But there are some emotionally stable, drama-free, able-bodied providers that you can enjoy and you don't have to go through the drama of having to try and help them fix their personal lives. I'm not saying not to be nice, but be nice to the right ones.

And re-evaluate what it means to have an ATF. An ATF should be someone that brings your fantasy to life, not drag you through her dramatic real life. I can imagine if things changed for her financially, and she was not able to cope, it was good of you to be her backbone. Not too many people know what it means to stick with people through the good and the bad. If you choose to see her through this, do it from your heart. Then let her go. I say if you were, you wouldn't have had to ask. But if you're not doing this for the right reasons, just drop it.

I hate to be the one to start pulling the bodies off that have piled on the "girls" and "young" providers, BUT...

while most are right about the irresponsible ways of the young "party girls," I will also say that irresponsible ways change as chronically irresponsible people get older. Instead of drinking all day, it might become shopping all day - or at least until the money runs out (but, there's always time to be spent working on the wish list...ha ha!). And, as we all know, there are many ways of getting bent. There are also thousands of way to mismanage time and effort - they are summed up as being lazy. In any case, the lady is a prime target for guys who give in to a misplaced sense of what helping really is. This might sound somewhat cold hearted, but some day I'll show you the t-shirt.

There are a lot of men who are angling for "freebies," if you can call paying bills, getting groceries, being the chauffeur, etc. etc. etc, "free." Both motivational ends of that equation are f*cked-up. There are also a lot of men who would like to "help" for any number of reasons but most boil down to just wanting to be liked and appreciated in addition to feeling good about ones self for actually making a little difference. This is fine and dandy on a case-by-case basis but things will blow up if the lady begins to take advantage and rides that horse until it won't be ridden any longer. LIke anything else, there are exceptions and these prove the rule since they are few and far between.

My conclusion regarding all of this is that many providers become addicted to being pursued, sought after, and given money for their "time" in a much more direct and deeper manner than other women who are only involved in civilian dating. Plus, those who so desire become adept at learning how to get "passes" over and over. This is merely manipulation and, unchecked, causes more lapses of judgement, or at least as many, than chemicals. It's a life style issue that breeds itself for many.

BTW, monkmonk, as he often does, boils things down to the essence of theeffect of the cause.

I thought that the Longhorn guy really said it best, so I have nothing to add except a question.

Where do you play poker, my friend?

Longhorn does hit the nail almost totally squarely on the head. I've given money. Every time I've done so, I told myself it was a gift--no strings attached. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't expect something in return. Not because it was quid pro quo. But because that is what decent people do in real relationships. If a buddy and I go out and play golf, but he's going through a rough time so I pay his green fee, odds are he's gonna at least pay for the beer and hot dog when we finish. You know, I paid $70, he'll cough up $10. It's called a gesture. It's what real people in real relationships do.

Not once--not once--did any of the ladies I helped out offer to bring a bottle of wine to session; offer to buy me a beer or burger and definitely didn't offer me any sexual favors. Honestly, barely even got a thank you. What I did get--in spades--was more requests for aid. Once the sucker stamp is on your forehead, it never goes away until you end it. And then they act like something's wrong with YOU!

I don't mean this in a mean way. But the girls who are seeking help are not real people. They do not play by the real relationship rules the rest of society operates on. They are takers. I do not like the use of the word enabler. That puts responsibility for the bad behavior on the wrong person.

Additionally, you gave her money for rent or bills or whatever. But she spent it on partying. That also shows a lack of respect for you. I'm sorry this happened. She might be a ton of fun BCD. But she is what she is. She does it for money. No other reason.

PS--I have met a very select few that I would count as real people. So this does not mean I think this about every lady in the business. A couple I like alot. And trust even. But the ones who take advantage of you, they are takers and you know what else they are.

This story has been repeated multiple times by different hobbyists regarding different girls. Some girls are complete users. The hobbyist will provide bail money, cars, trips, clothing, etc. The girls usually come up with some excuse why they can't repay the money or even make an effort to spend some time with the guy as a "thank you".

I have always called it "magic pixie dust" these girls have. They sprinkle it around on their "bitches" (one girl literally called her herd of givers that), and rake in the goodies.

It is amazing how this continues to happen.

I say move on. She's playing you like a fiddle dude. Originally Posted by exoticentyce

And here is the crux of it -

So why have you not responded to any of this legman?
Obviously you posted this to get other opinions, so have everyones
Great opinions been of any help?

Run, don't walk. Run away, like a thief in the night. Move on....

The opinion poll puts the blame mostly on me and since I’m the designated enabler/chump/usee (is that a word…?, guess that would be the opposite of user) and the older party, I’ll accept it.

I’ve got 2 tubes of Neosporin, some Keri cream with vitamin E and some Lubriderm ready for the next salvo which will surely be becoming after these next couple of statements. I’m already laughing in anticipation of the wisecrack that I’ve so perfectly set myself up to receive: seems I’ve been fucked already. So I hope that preempts that one.

So are her actions deliberate and a case of ‘just another guy, play him and move on to the next’ or simply just a young lady who still refuses to accept she has some serious issues with responsibility and a wild streak that’s going to be her downfall if it’s not checked? I’ll give her the benefit of doubt and say that the latter part is at least 90% of it. If she can’t acknowledge her own behavior as of late even given some traumatic events, then the flashes of kindness and intelligence I’ve seen at times are truly fool’s gold and my faith in her is truly misplaced. Seems she needs some space to sort out what she really wants and needs to do next, so I’ll give her that. There’s no point in me putting her down or lashing out in anger or retaliation. If I did, then I’m not a real friend anyway.

Interestingly enough all this has been good for me, remarkably so as it’s allowed me to consider what things are important and what are trivial and to consider what it is I want at this point in life and my expectations from hobby land. I guess getting hammered in a public forum does have some benefits: 'get your ass kicked therapy'. Marvelous.... oh what a feeling!!!

I’ve always wanted to try my hand at doing some home recording ever since I stopped playing music after high school and college. It was she who gave me insight into something that might be perfect for my personality and skills. The reason I haven’t responded the last few days is I’ve been too busy having fun plugging loops, trying out different sounds and just plain excited about doing it all even to the point of staying up to almost 2 AM and there’s a couple of other video ideas I’d like to try if nothing else just for the fun of it.

One thing I will say and it doesn’t matter if it’s in the hobby or real world: friends – true friends – who have given their trust are more valuable than any money you’ll ever make. Money and gifts come and go and so do ‘johns’ looking for the new flavor of the month or week. You may sleep on satin sheets with gold and diamonds on your wrists and fingers with a Benz in the garage. I’ve never heard anyone say they comforted them in a crisis or they gave them a little hug when the world seemed to be closing in on them or that they believed they were unique and special even when they doubted it themselves.
Peace...

This is a story of naivety and bad choices on both sides. These people always find each other. Hot young girls who can't take care of themselves and are attracted to losers but end up taking advantage of older not-hot guys who confuse need for money with affection. There is no cure.