AZ congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford Shot

You are right pointing fingers will not bring the lives they were lost back, but when you have people like Palin saying take them out- with gun sites on these politician and the one who got shot today was called out by Palin- you are playing with fire. Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Well, maybe now ALL parties will think about the strategies they use when speaking to the media, the people and especially at campaign time.

- remember when Palin said "Don't retreat, reload," .... Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

I had a high school basketball coach that when asked about how he would replace the talent that graduated would say "We don't rebuild, we reload." So was he inciting violence against the other teams that we played? I've heard that same phrase used by college coaches as well, so now do they need to be investigated? I saw what Palin did for what it was, a cheap political stunt based on her outdoors/hunting pursuits. I don't care for her, but she is no more responsible for some nut shooting those people today than my coach would be if some idiot showed up at one of our games and started shooting the other team's players. The person that did this is the one who is responsible for his actions and needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Since this is a federal crime, he likely faces execution. I won't shed a tear for him. Hell as far as I'm concerned, the family of the victims should be given the opportunity to carry out the verdict if they would feel that doing so would give them some sense of closure or vengeance.

I had a high school basketball coach that when asked about how he would replace the talent that graduated would say "We don't rebuild, we reload." So was he inciting violence against the other teams that we played? I've heard that same phrase used by college coaches as well, so now do they need to be investigated? I saw what Palin did for what it was, a cheap political stunt based on her outdoors/hunting pursuits. I don't care for her, but she is no more responsible for some nut shooting those people today than my coach would be if some idiot showed up at one of our games and started shooting the other team's players. The person that did this is the one who is responsible for his actions and needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Since this is a federal crime, he likely faces execution. I won't shed a tear for him. Hell as far as I'm concerned, the family of the victims should be given the opportunity to carry out the verdict if they would feel that doing so would give them some sense of closure or vengeance. Originally Posted by jac01

I wonder if your High School coach was irresponsible and used shotgun sights with the faces of the opposing team and then said they need to be taken out? Giffords was on Sarah Palin's PAC Website hit list- this list exists it is NOT a joke, she puts a map with target reticles marking these peoples place of residence....YES this was probably not her intent, this individual obviously has issues...but that is EXTREMELY irresponsible and shows astonishing if not unsurprising lack of foresight given the fact that these individuals are known to exist...there are so many better ways to make the kind of point her 'HITLIST' was trying to make less
You and people like Dirty dog are trying to sugar coat this and twist my words around. I stated several months agos when we having all this TEA party rhetoric that they "Tea Party" and certain right wing GOP words will incite people to do harm. It's very early but this POS constantly repeats over and over on his Youtube page that he's a constitutionalist- hmmm where have I heard people use that word before?
I really can't wait to watch FOX or should I say FAUX news tomorrow to hear their response. Remember a month ago Bill O'Reily said Muslims killed us on 9-11? When giving a chance to retract the statement he stood by it and said Muslims killed us on 9-11- yep I guess the 19 idiots were responsible and represented the near 1 billion muslims in the world. did Christians kill those who lost lives at the OKC bombings?'
I guess those who fan and promote hatred has gotten what they wanted. Watch folks like Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle, Rush Limbaugh,Glen Beck, Sean Hannity. Bill O'Reilly and many elected officials themselves now refuse to take any responsibility for what their brand of hate and divisiveness has caused. The MSM who given people like Sarah Palin a platform plays a part in this tragedy. I hope if nothing else this horror will make people think about the consequences of their words.
DD you can say what you want and twist it anyway you can- number one I used the word "minority" to represent women- also it was obvious to me that the congress woman was white and so were all those involved so why would I try to make it a black and white issue???? You will do anything to justify the sick right wing. Just to clarify myself there are Left wing nut jobs and there are sensible and responsible GOP- my whole agenda has always been against the Palin's Beck's, Rush's of the world who make crazy remarks that promote and spark hatred.

I think we should use this horrendous crime as a rallying point. It is time for people to quit demonizing the other side of the aisle. It's time to realize that calling names and putting targets on people can serve to lessen opponents to subhuman levels. It's not the gun that kills, its the hard heart behind the trigger that kills.
Remember what John Wayne said about JFK, "I didn't vote for him, but he's my President, and I wish him well." What happened to politics like that? Now of course Kennedy was murdered, but that was arguably a single nut. There are plenty of people out there on both sides now who have dehumanized the other side enough to think that it's ok, no, that they have the right to do this kind of thing. We need to realize that civility has to return or we are going to have blood in the streets like some third world country.

my whole agenda has always been against the Palin's Beck's, Rush's of the world who make crazy remarks that promote and spark hatred. Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

You forgot to add Matthews, Olbermann, Maher.... to your list.

"DD you can say what you want and twist it anyway you can- number one I used the word "minority" to represent women- also it was obvious to me that the congress woman was white and so were all those involved so why would I try to make it a black and white issue???? You will do anything to justify the sick right wing."

Wow you really are a dense one arnt you, I am not defending the right wind or anything to do with the right wing, and nothing I said defends them, I am questioning your desire to turn every conversation into something racial. If your not smart enough to see that then maybe you should not be despending medication. You turned this into a black and white issue when you made your statement, but you know and I know that you did not use the word minority to refer to women. As for that other load of sewage your spewing, I made no comment other than it might be wiser to wait until you have some facts, but then lack of facts have nevers stopped you before.

"so why would I try to make it a black and white issue????"

Because you always do, and because you have already stated that if you disagree with Obama your a racist who hates black people. Your not fooling me with your statements to cover what you said. Just llike the last several threads you have started and turned racial, I called you out then and I am calling you out now.

So i will stand by my statement that you are a racist. Starting way back when Obama was running and you were saying if he was not elected it was because he is black, then you said if his bills are not passed it because he is black, if anyone white disagrees with him its because he is black. I will let you in on something, I think your a freaking shit stirrer and dumb ass and its not because your black. Oh and one more thing I am suprised you responded, normally you make your inflamatory comments and then disappear.

"You forgot to add Matthews, Olbermann, Maher.... to your list. "

Sarge he didnt forget them, he agrees with them.

You forgot to add Matthews, Olbermann, Maher.... to your list. Originally Posted by Sarge

If Olbermann, Matthews, Maher or any Left Wing nut promotes hate or harm than yes I will add them to that list. Please quote me any reference where the above have called on their support to do harm to the opposite side. I have no problems with any politician GOP or DEM disagreeing with the opposing side, but when you make hateful statements you bring it to another level. Take a look at this: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...ators-hanging/ this lady who spoke at the podium at a Tea Rally Event called for Sen Murray to be HANGED and the crowd cheered and applauded. Hmmm wow that's really resposnible:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_466261.html Not trying to get off the subject but a Right Wing commentator on Faux News said Mike Vick should have been executed. Right now it's TEA party and a lot of GOP politicians that are breededing people like this POS and I stand by that statement.
Sarge and DD please post the links are comments of these so called "hateful" messages that Matthews, Olbermann and Maher made I will be waiting. I could literally write a book on the hateful comments that Beck, Hannity, Rush, and other GOP and Tea Party whack jobs have made and amazingly all made since Obama been in office!!!!

In the end people by the responsability of there own actions.

Yes, the political divide and demonizing of the opposing party can push some mentally unstable people over the edge. Maybe this will make America think, but I doubt it.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. But the guns sure do help, don't they?

Two examples of Maher wishing violence on those he disagrees with:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,256650,00.html

http://american-conservativevalues.c...beck-dead.html

Better add the President to your list as well. He told his supporters to bring guns:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...e-bring-a-gun/

Also called for people to start a confrontation saying "I want you to argue with them and get in their face." If the concern is that mentally unstable people will commit violent acts based on the rhetoric used by politicians, that statement needs to be condemned as well.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...to-suppor.html

Conclusion: the "heated rhetoric" and "hate speech" are not solely tactics of the Right. Both sides are doing it.

Two examples of Maher wishing violence on those he disagrees with:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,256650,00.html

http://american-conservativevalues.c...beck-dead.html

Better add the President to your list as well. He told his supporters to bring guns:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...e-bring-a-gun/

Also called for people to start a confrontation saying "I want you to argue with them and get in their face." If the concern is that mentally unstable people will commit violent acts based on the rhetoric used by politicians, that statement needs to be condemned as well.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...to-suppor.html

Conclusion: the "heated rhetoric" and "hate speech" are not solely tactics of the Right. Both sides are doing it. Originally Posted by jac01

Thanks for bringing those references I think Maher was a scum bag for making those remarks I don't like Cheney but I would never call for his or Beck's death or anyone.
However, I think you are taking Obama's comment waaaayyy out of context. His point was if the GOP is bringing something you bring something much stronger albeit Obama should have used better comparisons- example if they bring fire you bring water or something that doesn't reference any type of violence- shame on Obama for that statement. I think both sides need to agree to disagree without one claiming the other is trying to destroy the country or ruin the country.
If any Republican thinks that Obama in his heart really wants to destroy this country they are sick. also the statement made: Also called for people to start a confrontation saying "I want you to argue with them and get in their face." Again I find nothing wrong with that statement- remember it's not a crime to argue. Had Obama said spit in their face or hit them- that's a different story. As I pointed out a lady at a Tea party conference stood at the podium and said that Sen Murray needed to be hanged. Now that's a problem- that is calling for the death of someone- far different from telling someone to get in their face and argue with them- two polar opposites.

I'm not taking Obama's comments out of context, or suggesting that he actually was calling for violence. I know it was a figure of speech in both instances. But if the reason you have called for the rhetoric to be toned down is because certain unstable individuals confuse the use of metaphors with calls for violent action, certainly the statements of the President deserve the same repudiation as what Palin did on her facebook page. This shooter is an unstable nut. If he was truly some deranged right-winger that hated the government, he would have most likely shot only at the Congresswoman. Since he killed several other random people (including a 9-year old child), I tend to believe that he picked a soft target venue (no open or concealed carry of guns by CCW permit holders allowed at this type of event) so that he could create the most possible mayhem before being stopped.

I'm not taking Obama's comments out of context, or suggesting that he actually was calling for violence. I know it was a figure of speech in both instances. But if the reason you have called for the rhetoric to be toned down is because certain unstable individuals confuse the use of metaphors with calls for violent action, certainly the statements of the President deserve the same repudiation as what Palin did on her facebook page. This shooter is an unstable nut. If he was truly some deranged right-winger that hated the government, he would have most likely shot only at the Congresswoman. Since he killed several other random people (including a 9-year old child), I tend to believe that he picked a soft target venue (no open or concealed carry of guns by CCW permit holders allowed at this type of event) so that he could create the most possible mayhem before being stopped. Originally Posted by jac01

Good point, but also I hear a lot of left wing people take this ordeal and say we need stricter gun laws- I am totally with the Republican ideology in terms of gun control as I belief it's a right granted by the Constitution and I don't believe in making it very difficult for law abiding citizens to own arms. this POS or anyone can get get a gun in this country illegally or legally if they wanted too.

Well Endowed, a simple question...(which requires a simple answer) Do you REALLY think that Sarah Palin REALLY wanted people murdered? That is a yes or no answer.


I must also point out that the Daily Kos also put up a map for democrats to support and they also used cross-hairs. Since most weapons use open sights I always wonder why some in a knee jerk fashion think that cross hairs denote rifle sights rather than say a bomb sight, a single point of two mathematical vectors, etc.

Remember to answer the first question. I wish I could ask Olbermann, Krugman, Sullivan, and Matthews the same question on the air. Have to give it to Wolf Blitzer though, he had two women on his show this morning and they talked about the rhetoric. He asked them point blank if they had any, ANY evidence showing a link between the shooter and any political group. They both agreed that neither of them had anything to show that.

Since it was brought up previously I will point out that Gabby was Jewish and there has been some antisemitism on this site.

Galt. Olbermann, Krugman, Sullivan and Matthews would all say the say the same thing that most people would say. The same thing I would say. No.

But you are off target here, eh, so to speak...

What I want answered is, "Did the constant stream of vitriol we are all exposed to give this man the feeling that he had the right, or the duty to "take her out", or "use the second amendment option"? Tone matters Mr Galt. Rhetoric matters. You can only say politicians are fascists or socialists or communists for so long before somebody tries to kill the "fascists". That is why it is dangerous to use those terms in the way they are being thrown around today. They do make people targets. Mostly of incendiary follow on free speech. But who is to say that this time those words didn't tell Mr "Soon to be Executed" that he was well within his rights to "protect his country" from this "fifth column" member who was "dangerous to democracy"? Time will tell. And we may never know for sure. But do we have to know for absolute certain before we stop trying to label political opponents as "the debble" (from the movie Waterboy)?

Well Endowed, a simple question...(which requires a simple answer) Do you REALLY think that Sarah Palin REALLY wanted people murdered? That is a yes or no answer.


I must also point out that the Daily Kos also put up a map for democrats to support and they also used cross-hairs. Since most weapons use open sights I always wonder why some in a knee jerk fashion think that cross hairs denote rifle sights rather than say a bomb sight, a single point of two mathematical vectors, etc.

Remember to answer the first question. I wish I could ask Olbermann, Krugman, Sullivan, and Matthews the same question on the air. Have to give it to Wolf Blitzer though, he had two women on his show this morning and they talked about the rhetoric. He asked them point blank if they had any, ANY evidence showing a link between the shooter and any political group. They both agreed that neither of them had anything to show that.

Since it was brought up previously I will point out that Gabby was Jewish and there has been some antisemitism on this site. Originally Posted by john_galt

John read my above statements of course I don't think Sarah Palin meant those statements but she should have used better judgment. Do you think Obama was trying to call Palin a pig during the campaign? Do you think Obama really wants to destroy the country? All I have to say is that people have to be responsible for their words because politicians like Palin can say the wrong thing and spark the wrong actions. There's nothing funny or cute about using cross-hairs- it was poor taste.
Yes, it's too early too tell what side this POS whackjob walked on, but things have got to change,
John don't you thing it was poor taste to have the woman at the Tea party meeting go to the podium and say that Rep Murray needs to be hanged and then have those in attendance applaud? WTF is this world coming to?