Should Natalie Portman give her Oscar back?

would you be willing to hand them an industry award for doing so? Originally Posted by Mazomaniac

“We don’t.” It’s kinda of an incestuous thing they got goin’ on in Hollywood, so there’s no sense in anyone gittin’ all riled up about it.

I think a lot of you folks are missing the point here.

It's not about whether Portman is a good dancer or is a good actor.

The point is about whether the studio et al. (including Portman's own fiance) told the public a blatant, bald-faced lie in order to help her get the statue. It's the potential deception that has people up in arms.

Think of the examples given in this thread:

Nobody ever claimed that Tom Hanks actually went out and caught AIDS.

Nobody ever claimed that Gary Cooper ever went out and mowed down fifty Germans.

Nobody said that Tom Cruise learned to fly.

That's not the case with Portman. The studio, the producers, her family, etc all came out and stated publicly that she provided the bulk of the dance performance in the film. If that turns out to be untrue - and I think that's still an open question - then you have ask whether people willing to mislead the public to that extent in order to boost the profit line of their product should be handed awards.

This is, after all, a business. If a regular old company lied to you about the qualities of their product would you be willing to hand them an industry award for doing so?

Cheers,
Mazo. Originally Posted by Mazomaniac

Agreed...that is the question.

But the discussion is probably doing as much to help the movie as the question. And how does one measure a "bold faced lie"? Did Miss P actually dance all the dances? Did Miss L also dance all the dances? Which ones were in the film and which ones ended up on the editors floor?

Is it a bold faced lie?...or is it shading of the truth?...or is it an opinion? Like most things in life...the real truth probably lies somewhere inbetween the two extremes.

This discussion could also be about a question of Miss L's integrity...In that she took the producer's money...austensibly in consideration of her dancing abilities as well as doing what she was told to do...and now has reneged on that deal. This could (not saying it is, but it could) be about a disgruntled employee, not getting the recognition she thinks she deserves, who is doing a bit of shading of the truth of her own. After all...outside of ballet circles...would Miss L's name ever be mentioned if it were not for this controversy?

An interesting cocktail talk discussion...before going home to see what happened on the evening news.

Understood. . . but can she show a birth certificate? Originally Posted by Iaintliein

The new "Trump Card".

Agreed...that is the question.

But the discussion is probably doing as much to help the movie as the question. And how does one measure a "bold faced lie"? Did Miss P actually dance all the dances? Did Miss L also dance all the dances? Which ones were in the film and which ones ended up on the editors floor?

Is it a bold faced lie?...or is it shading of the truth?...or is it an opinion? Like most things in life...the real truth probably lies somewhere inbetween the two extremes.

This discussion could also be about a question of Miss L's integrity...In that she took the producer's money...austensibly in consideration of her dancing abilities as well as doing what she was told to do...and now has reneged on that deal. This could (not saying it is, but it could) be about a disgruntled employee, not getting the recognition she thinks she deserves, who is doing a bit of shading of the truth of her own. After all...outside of ballet circles...would Miss L's name ever be mentioned if it were not for this controversy?

An interesting cocktail talk discussion...before going home to see what happened on the evening news. Originally Posted by Rudyard K

the question was addressed several times already

This is, after all, a business. If a regular old company lied to you about the qualities of their product would you be willing to hand them an industry award for doing so?

Cheers,
Mazo. Originally Posted by Mazomaniac

Toyota and a bunch of JD Power-type awards and their Quality Problems comes to mind

A bunch of products have been named best new this or that and had claims support issues

I don't feel like looking this up, but it happens...&

“We don’t.” It’s kinda of an incestuous thing they got goin’ on in Hollywood, so there’s no sense in anyone gittin’ all riled up about it. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

..as IB points out the awards culture is so different in industry it just isn't a big deal...certainly not to the general public...

Well, here's an industry example that people should get riled about.

It turns out that Mercedes' highly-touted crash avoidance radar is partially a fake.

As you can see in their commercials, the system is supposed to automatically brake the car if you get too close to another object thereby avoiding or reducing the severity of a collision.

It turns out, however, that Mercedes' engineers knew that the system didn't work when driving in certain areas. For instance, the system often got confused by radar scatter when inside parking garages or on very narrow streets. In those conditions the radar wouldn't engage the automatic brakes.

Despite knowing about these problems Mercedes produced videos of their cars stopping "automatically" inside garages. Turns out that it was actually the test driver and not the radar system that was doing all the braking in those clips.

Should Mercedes have their safety awards and rating yanked for that one? I sure think so. And I think the public would and should sit up and notice if somebody had the balls to do it.

Cheers,
Mazo.

This reminds me of the when Marine Jahan came forward to say she did all of the dances in "Flash Dance" for Jennifer Beals. At the time Marine was not credited in the film credits. She even rode the bicycle instead of Beals in the opening scenes.

Well, here's an industry example that people should get riled about.

It turns out that Mercedes' highly-touted crash avoidance radar is partially a fake.

As you can see in their commercials, the system is supposed to automatically brake the car if you get too close to another object thereby avoiding or reducing the severity of a collision.

It turns out, however, that Mercedes' engineers knew that the system didn't work when driving in certain areas. For instance, the system often got confused by radar scatter when inside parking garages or on very narrow streets. In those conditions the radar wouldn't engage the automatic brakes.

Despite knowing about these problems Mercedes produced videos of their cars stopping "automatically" inside garages. Turns out that it was actually the test driver and not the radar system that was doing all the braking in those clips.

Should Mercedes have their safety awards and rating yanked for that one? I sure think so. And I think the public would and should sit up and notice if somebody had the balls to do it.

Cheers,
Mazo. Originally Posted by Mazomaniac

Well Maz...you're kind of mixing obligations. I'm not sure whose "Safety Award" you are talking about...but if it were Rudy's Safety Award...and the facts were as you have presented...and I had awarded the Safety Award based soley on their representation...then Yes, I would revoke my Safety Award. Short of all those facts being what I spelled out...then I would have to review the true facts before making that decision.

The intergrity of the award presentation is different than the intergity of the one it is presented to. It's up to the presented to protect his integrity...and its up to the presenter to protect his.

Portman should give her Oscar back right after she swings by my house and gives me an Oscar winning performance.

I've had no respect for the Oscars since "The English Patient" won Best Pic. What a crappy film. They've worked themselves into irrelevancy. "Its hard being a Pimp" as Best Song? Ridiculous.

Interesting thoughts and examples.

I think the question really is: do we penalize a movie/actress/actor because they take a role that requires more skill than just acting? Other dancers that have acted in dance movies are Neve Campbell in "The Company" and Julia Stiles in "Save the Last Dance." There is other such talent in other such movies.

Do we penalized action actors who have stuntmen/doubles (Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid and Indiana Jones series comes to mind)? Do we penalize Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman" because she used a doubles legs in the promos? Do we penalize science fiction because it is not possibly true?

I guess my question is: at which point do you draw the line?

I think actors/actresses with talents other than just acting are to be treasured. So what if she didn't do ALL the dancing. She did quite a bit...and that takes talent. Being en pointe is no easy deal. It takes years of practice.

Portman should give her Oscar back right after she swings by my house and gives me an Oscar winning performance.

I've had no respect for the Oscars since "The English Patient" won Best Pic. What a crappy film. They've worked themselves into irrelevancy. "Its hard being a Pimp" as Best Song? Ridiculous. Originally Posted by gnadfly

Ooooh got to disagree with that. Minghella was great and I miss him.
IMO that was worth a win

C

I don't agree that is the question Charles. Its a question of deception and whether it exists. Whether Portman danced or not wouldn't have been a shit storm of an issue...though it may have affected her Oscar nom..the shit storm is the deception.

C

I think the question really is: do we penalize a movie/actress/actor because they take a role that requires more skill than just acting? Other dancers that have acted in dance movies are Neve Campbell in "The Company" and Julia Stiles in "Save the Last Dance." There is other such talent in other such movies.

Do we penalized action actors who have stuntmen/doubles (Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid and Indiana Jones series comes to mind)? Do we penalize Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman" because she used a doubles legs in the promos? Do we penalize science fiction because it is not possibly true?

I guess my question is: at which point do you draw the line?

I think actors/actresses with talents other than just acting are to be treasured. So what if she didn't do ALL the dancing. She did quite a bit...and that takes talent. Being en pointe is no easy deal. It takes years of practice. Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

This reminds me of the when Marine Jahan came forward to say she did all of the dances in "Flash Dance" for Jennifer Beals. At the time Marine was not credited in the film credits. She even rode the bicycle instead of Beals in the opening scenes.

Originally Posted by HoneyRose

I was thinking the same thing, but Beals didn't win an Oscar. I Wikied it earlier. Beales actually had three "body doubles" [sic: "three" "doubles" - ???? hmm] - one was a guy! That's certainly a sucker punch to my "lust mode."

I don't agree that is the question Charles. Its a question of deception and whether it exists.

C Originally Posted by Camille

That is fine...where do you draw the line?

With appropriate time and resourcing (maybe just half an hour and Google), I could probably come up with a list of deceptions made by other winners...