Guns in an outcall

If I owned a gun, which I probably never will, I would NEVER leave it in plain sight when visitors were in the house. Just to get the record straight: FACT -- less than 40% of U.S. homes have a gun in them. Could be higher in Texas. Don't know. FACT -- less than 3% of eligible Texans have CHLs to legally carry a concealed handgun. FACT -- more innocent people are killed in their homes by a handgun by someone that they know than criminals are killed during the execution of a crime.

Not trying to convince anyone to do anything. But if I walked into a home and a handgun was in eyesight, I would be gone.

As for guns at an outcall. Concealed please. Why they are left in the open is stupid. Originally Posted by Zhivago52

+1 - STUPID (and you cain't fix stupid). If you can see the gun it should not be loaded. If it is loaded and in plain sight it should have a lock of some sort. Keeping it in a gun safe with a finger print opener or quick code would be best if you have to have a loaded firearm around to feel safe.

If a provider had a gun I could see I might ask her to unload it, put it away, or I might politely leave saying that having a loaded gun around didn't make me feel comfortable. Net-net, if she leaves it out she isn't very smart and I could probably overpower her or just grab it when she isn't looking and do whatever so the gun is not providing her any security, in fact it is doing the exact opposite. I WOULD be happy to take any provider who wished to the range to learn to shoot (not that I'm an expert, but I am competent).

The two times it has occurred, I was visiting a gentlemen out in the country and it didn't seem out of place. I mean a couple of shot guns in your trophy room out in La Grange looks very different than a riffle next to your bed in Westlake. Originally Posted by Haley

Yes, but one would hope the rifles and shotguns were not loaded.

A wound is a wound whether it comes from a bullet or a blade. IJS. Originally Posted by Centaur

Yeah, but you don't read about too many accidental cuttings from swords or kitchen knives. You also don't read about dead kids who were playing with what they thought was a toy sword or knife and it went off.

IF you keep a loaded gun in your incall AND you are stupid enough to leave it where a provider can see it (or vice versa for that matter), what is to keep her from picking it up when you are laying back exhausted just after your moment of release and filling you with five or ten holes? Not likely, but let's see. #1 - you probably don't know her real name or real phone number. #2 - you only know her through doing business with her and know nothing about her background, personal life or habits. #3 - you only spend 30 minutes or an hour with her in most cases under not very "normal" conditions. #4 - You probably hide your communications with her, especially if you have an SO. So, it is an ideal situation for an unsolved murder (can anyone say "black widow"?) and it could be YOUR murder. I prefer to keep my guns unloaded and locked up. After all, I can get to them and load them in less than 90 seconds if need be. Also, I've never needed a gun to protect myself in well over a half century on this planet. Just my two cents.

What concerns me is everyone who simply goes out and buys a gun without any training of any kind. They are a danger to themselves and others. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell from looking at someone if they've had any proper instruction, and I don't support mandatory gun licensing because I believe it imperils democracy to give government the power to deny gun ownership. Originally Posted by Centaur

+1 - Not to mention doesn't handle or maintain it properly and safely. The #1 way to stay out of trouble or fights and not need a gun is to think and not get in situations where one might be needed.

"I don't support mandatory gun licensing because I believe it imperils democracy to give government the power to deny gun ownership"

That is a whole debate in and of itself, but if you look at the "real democracies" in the world, most of them have pretty strict gun laws. Odd coincidence if what you are saying is true. Would you agree though that there are people who should be denied access to firearms (violent felons, children, mentally unstable people)?

I'm hoping for the day when you can get a pistol or rifle that has a good biometric lock built into it. If it existed and worked well some police force somewhere would be using it.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...h-up-to-snuff/



Barring that, I'll just do what Boyd Crowder did to Ethan Picker in TV series "Justified" - "At the meeting with Duffy and Picker, he meets Katherine Hale, who informs him that Duffy is looking for a reason he shouldn't kill Boyd over the missing heroin, but they are all arrested by the US Marshals. Once the meeting is resumed, Boyd offers to give Duffy his half of the heroin shipment as compensation for his life. While Katherine and Duffy talk in another room, Boyd pulls out a pack of cigarettes, tapping the side of the pack before throwing it to Picker. The cigarette pack detonates within seconds of Picker catching it, immediately killing him due to the pack containing emulex explosive."

A cigarette pack, a little emulex and a 10 second timer (now that is what I call "personal protection").

If you go to someone's house in TX, odds are there's a gun somewhere and if you see one in a locked cabinet or up on a shelf or even behind a toaster that, in my opinion, should be no cause for concern.

If someone leaves a loaded gun laying around their house in plain sight as opposed to either on their person, stashed away or locked up under almost any circumstance, they're already showing a degree of carelessness and that would give me pause. Guns + carelessness is bad.

If you go to someone's house as a client or service provider, they know you are coming and they don't know you extremely well and leave a loaded gun laying around in plain sight that's either damn foolish or some kind of statement which is another worse form of damn foolish. Guns + damn foolish is a deal killer for me in all situations.

Yeah, but you don't read about too many accidental cuttings from swords or kitchen knives. You also don't read about dead kids who were playing with what they thought was a toy sword or knife and it went off. Originally Posted by LordBeaverbrook

I was only responding to Amore's comment that a gun seemed less personal by pointing out that a wound is personal whether it's a stab or bullet wound. Also, most children are taught by a young age to respect knives if they have any access to them, just as they are taught to respect motor vehicles. I have about two dozen real swords (not counting bokens) ranging from a practice blade to a centuries-old heirloom. Most of them have cutting blades that make a butcher's knife seem dull by comparison. If I ever have children, they will be taught to treat blades with respect even if that is as far as their interest goes.

+1 - Not to mention doesn't handle or maintain it properly and safely. The #1 way to stay out of trouble or fights and not need a gun is to think and not get in situations where one might be needed. Originally Posted by LordBeaverbrook

Absolutely. Unfortunately that's not always possible for everyone, everywhere, all the time. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst you practically can.

"I don't support mandatory gun licensing because I believe it imperils democracy to give government the power to deny gun ownership"

That is a whole debate in and of itself, but if you look at the "real democracies" in the world, most of them have pretty strict gun laws. Odd coincidence if what you are saying is true. Would you agree though that there are people who should be denied access to firearms (violent felons, children, mentally unstable people)? Originally Posted by LordBeaverbrook

Yes, with the caveat that children in a household with guns should be taught by their teens to correctly clean, operate and secure them. Respect for them should start at a much earlier age. I received basic firearms training when I was 15. My sister, who was something of a tomboy, learned to shoot, secure and maintain guns by age 13 and owned her own sport rifle by 14. Competitive shooting is a sport often begun in early teens. I would trust her proficiency at that age more than the vast majority of fools who assume simply buying a gun and a few bullets makes them safer. Niether of us is are violent individuals. She's a hippy and I believe the initiation of violent force is immoral.

The role of gun ownership in democracy is indeed another topic for another forum (perhaps the political one). I merely meant to explain why I don't support licensing them the same way driving is licensed. I will simply point out that I did not say democracy was impossible without gun ownership or that it was the only condition important to democracy, only that I believe prohibiting gun ownership does imperil democracy is the long run. So do many other things such as the consolidation of political power and the corporate syndication of the Fourth Estate. But, as you said, that's another discussion.

I'm hoping for the day when you can get a pistol or rifle that has a good biometric lock built into it. If it existed and worked well some police force somewhere would be using it. Originally Posted by LordBeaverbrook

Perhaps. Biometric locks are easier to defeat than decent combination locks, but it might work for guns where the concern is an opponent turning it on you.

I've been to a few gents places where they had guns in plain sight.

One the rifle was right next to the bed and I didn't notice until I was in doggy...
One the guy had it out on his table, in process of being cleaned...
another session a guy had me in doggy on his couch and my hand went under the pillow and I felt the cold steel.

Guns don't bother me. I know how to use one because of growing up in super rural towns. But I could understand how they might make other people uncomfortable

As long as he isn't brandishing the gun to threaten me, what difference does it make if he has one, ten or 100 guns around?
Texas is known for the majority of the population owning and carrying them. It's not a big deal unless I'm threatened with one. Other than that, I'll just ignore them. LOL.
I had a friend that would ALWAYS carry a glock in a fanny pack and would take it off only during sex. He'd even bring it into the bathroom when he took a shower.

If I owned a gun, which I probably never will, I would NEVER leave it in plain sight when visitors were in the house. Just to get the record straight: FACT -- less than 40% of U.S. homes have a gun in them. Could be higher in Texas. Don't know. FACT -- less than 3% of eligible Texans have CHLs to legally carry a concealed handgun. FACT -- more innocent people are killed in their homes by a handgun by someone that they know than criminals are killed during the execution of a crime.

Not trying to convince anyone to do anything. But if I walked into a home and a handgun was in eyesight, I would be gone. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

The part I don't get is: if you think the #2 people in your list have them, why it wouldn't be reasonable to have one. It's a sad commentary on society now that being prepared is equated to being scared. Originally Posted by endurance

you can be prepared and not pull out your own gun on someone. the are a couple of self defense menuvours to disarm someone with a gun. standing up kneeling. but your point was that i equate "being prepared" with being scared well lets think about it, outside of recreational sporting why does a civilian own a gun? to protect themselves. why because you would be scared if you were in a situation where an adversary had a gun on you and you didn't have anything to put you on equal footing, at least. the feeling of safety is only to combat a fear of something. you'd feel safer if you had a gun.

I'm concerned or afraid of someone hurting me so I get something that makes me feel safe thus am now less afraid/concerned (if you will). it's not like fear is something to be ashamed or a weakness (unless it keeps you from being productive). it's human nature

so yes it's for people who are afraid. unless your reason is recreational/ your a collector or you have malice intent

It goes without saying that you're entitled to your own choices in the matter. That said, what do you mean by "laying out in the open"? One provider I visited had an sizable rifle and shotgun collection in a pair of large locked gun cabinets. I'm not a gun aficionado, but I complimented it and asked her about it because I like learning new things and I've dated avid shooters in the past. Now if someone just had a gun laying about, I might wonder a bit about their attention to safety, but I wouldn't presume any mal intent or paranoia.

I mean if they just had a unlocked loaded gun laying out on the dresser, nightstand, near the tv on the couch arm rest ect.

i'd get my ass out of there because I don't know how sound of mind you are as a person. maybe sometimes you seem demons and keep it out and loaded close by to shoot them. maybe you've been burned too many times by a provider and it's a power play/intimidation tactic. maybe you're just careless with firearms or new with them.

if it were in a gun case or obviously part of a collection and put up in an open area that's a different situation.

I never do outcalls unless I'm traveling, but what if he had an extensive collection of swords (no pun intended) as I do?

I like swords and knives. i'd probably be cool with it and ask you about them and get you to give me wielding lesson. now if you have a sword laying by your bedside.....during a date....i'd be apprehensive

A wound is a wound whether it comes from a bullet or a blade. IJS.

true. but i see guns as a distance range weapon you can stand at a distance and shoot someone without even and effort to hurt them but with a knife you have (unless you and apt knife thrower) to be in their space and engage them physically to injury them. personal...impersonal.

Why would retired service members have any more need or use than the rest of the public? I'm not saying they don't. I'm just wondering why they wouldn't fall into one of your other categories.

I just chalk it up to simple creature of habit. ever met an ex/former gun owner? o.O

In the early oughts I dated a state-ranked shooter, SoCal born and bred beach babe with brains. I love me some country gals, but there was nothing country about her. There are many reasons to own a gun, from competitive shooting to hunting to personal safety. I don't myself own one presently – I did when I lived in LA – but I think it behooves everyone who lives in a society where firearms are common to be at least rudimentarily proficient in their care and use. What concerns me is everyone who simply goes out and buys a gun without any training of any kind. They are a danger to themselves and others. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell from looking at someone if they've had any proper instruction, and I don't support mandatory gun licensing because I believe it imperils democracy to give government the power to deny gun ownership. Originally Posted by Centaur

yes.

If you go to someone's house in TX, odds are there's a gun somewhere and if you see one in a locked cabinet or up on a shelf or even behind a toaster that, in my opinion, should be no cause for concern.

If someone leaves a loaded gun laying around their house in plain sight as opposed to either on their person, stashed away or locked up under almost any circumstance, they're already showing a degree of carelessness and that would give me pause. Guns + carelessness is bad.

If you go to someone's house as a client or service provider, they know you are coming and they don't know you extremely well and leave a loaded gun laying around in plain sight that's either damn foolish or some kind of statement which is another worse form of damn foolish. Guns + damn foolish is a deal killer for me in all situations. Originally Posted by irishlad

+1000

i'd get my ass out of there because I don't know how sound of mind you are as a person. maybe sometimes you seem demons and keep it out and loaded close by to shoot them. maybe you've been burned too many times by a provider and it's a power play/intimidation tactic. maybe you're just careless with firearms or new with them. Originally Posted by Secret_Amore

Fair enough. It's certainly your prerogative, and I agree they're probably careless if they leave it lying about unless it's in a workshop.

I like swords and knives. i'd probably be cool with it and ask you about them and get you to give me wielding lesson. now if you have a sword laying by your bedside.....during a date....i'd be apprehensive Originally Posted by Secret_Amore

Fortunately I'd never treat a blade with such disrespect. If I did, my sensei would come back to life and make me do one-armed pushups for penance

true. but i see guns as a distance range weapon you can stand at a distance and shoot someone without even and effort to hurt them but with a knife you have (unless you and apt knife thrower) to be in their space and engage them physically to injury them. personal...impersonal. Originally Posted by Secret_Amore

I guess I just know too many fencers to think of them the way most people see blades. Obligatory Indian Jones clip:



Of course most people aren't that good a shot. That's actually one the problems with buying a gun without at least semi-regular practice. It's not quite as point-and-click as it looks. People without an ounce of training think they're gonna shoot straight during a home invasion when they're high on adrenaline. Not likely.

I just chalk it up to simple creature of habit. ever met an ex/former gun owner? o.O Originally Posted by Secret_Amore

Myself. I owned a gun for self-defense when I lived in LA. I value knowing gun etiquette and being able to use one if I ever need to.

Thank you for the cogent and intelligent reply to all my questions. I wish more discussions about firearms were as cool-headed. It's been a pleasure.

Totally unrealistic. If you find yourself unfortunate enough to be in an encounter with someone with a gun and think your survival odds are good without one you've been watching too much Walker Texas Ranger. You are gambling that you will win the Tueller drill.

If you want the capability of defending yourself against someone with a gun, you need the right tool for the job. That is a gun. If you do work around the house and need to put in nails, you have a hammer, not because you are afraid of nails - because it is the right tool for the job.

The ones who are scared are the people unfamiliar with responsible gun use.

you can be prepared and not pull out your own gun on someone. the are a couple of self defense menuvours to disarm someone with a gun. standing up kneeling. but your point was that i equate "being prepared" with being scared well lets think about it, outside of recreational sporting why does a civilian own a gun? to protect themselves. why because you would be scared if you were in a situation where an adversary had a gun on you and you didn't have anything to put you on equal footing, at least. the feeling of safety is only to combat a fear of something. you'd feel safer if you had a gun.

I'm concerned or afraid of someone hurting me so I get something that makes me feel safe thus am now less afraid/concerned (if you will). it's not like fear is something to be ashamed or a weakness (unless it keeps you from being productive). it's human nature

so yes it's for people who are afraid. unless your reason is recreational/ your a collector or you have malice intent Originally Posted by Secret_Amore

You are gambling that you will win the Tueller drill. Originally Posted by endurance

The Tueller drill models ranged tactics. It compares how long it takes to draw a sidearm vs how quickly a knife fighter can close the range between them. If someone attempts to pull a gun on you at short range (a few meters, precisely how far depends on speed), there are techniques you can use to disarm them. However, they require repetitive practice under a skilled instructor to be used effectively. Their odds of success go down against an opponent trained to counter them. The best defense against a gun attack for someone without proper self-defense training is to run like hell. Distance and motion decrease accuracy. Even if you are armed with a gun, run like hell to cover before returning fire and, if you are not a trained soldier or a law enforcement professional, and if you have any opportunity to escape, do not waste it returning fire. If someone already has a gun trained on you at short range, do what they say until you have an opportunity to escape, at which point run like hell.

Victoria what are your thoughts on a client appearing at your incall with a concealed fire arm? I live alone and there is a gun on my hip or with in reach 24/7. An unloaded gun is a lousy club. One in the pipe and 18 in the magazine. Just in case I miss the first 18 rounds.

Totally unrealistic. If you find yourself unfortunate enough to be in an encounter with someone with a gun and think your survival odds are good without one you've been watching too much Walker Texas Ranger. You are gambling that you will win the Tueller drill.

If you want the capability of defending yourself against someone with a gun, you need the right tool for the job. That is a gun. If you do work around the house and need to put in nails, you have a hammer, not because you are afraid of nails - because it is the right tool for the job.

The ones who are scared are the people unfamiliar with responsible gun use. Originally Posted by endurance

it's not unrealistic just like with operating a gun if your trained in a skill you can use it. clearly you've never taken weapon self defense. if you can be proficient with guns you and be proficient with weaponry self defense. it's not like chuck noris made up moves.

and how exactly do u plan to pull out your gun with someone already pointing one at you? AND if you have the time/speed/skill to pull yours out and not spoke them into shooting you why the fuck can't you just take the gun from them?

personally...well i would like to say i'd be compliant and not do anything to antagonize someone until i could get the fuck out But i know myself and that would be a lie. I'd probably get my ass shot because I'd be defensive/antagonist and just plain all around fuck no your gonna have to shoot suborn...unfortunately my personality isn't suited for being told to do something with a weapon on me. I would be such a fucking dumbass and give the person attacking me a hard time.

Interesting fact. Since CHL was passed (after court ruling) in Illinois crime has reduced 30%!