Clarification on what a TS wants to be called...

What? Cancel the t-shirts?

Originally Posted by johnnytx39

Can you make one BBW for SL?

I never thought I had one until Mimi told me I did. She said "When F2C comes by after you leave, I can't even tell he is there...its like fucking air".... Originally Posted by Toyz

that's because she is in Heaven with me ....

Back to what we MUST call TSs ....

that's because she is in Heaven with me ....

Back to what we MUST call TSs .... Originally Posted by fun2come

Nah, I'm going to let sleeping dogs lie. I expressed my thoughts, others made theirs...Spurs are winning, I'm happy.

TS: Texas Sidewinder?

Yeah...you won't find a whole lot of allies in this neck of the woods. I wish you could (and I think you will among most of the provider crowd), but in the older generation, white, financially secure segment of Texas (even in Austin, even in hobbyists) it might not always be so easy.

Not necessarily true. Bigots are bigots. Ignorant is ignorant. Hate is hate.

Not necessarily true. Bigots are bigots. Ignorant is ignorant. Hate is hate. Originally Posted by amoryb

/sigh

I see a double standard here .


Name Calling ..

If the TS who is a male wants to be called a girl because TS thinks it is a girl.
That's OK.

If another person thinks of himself as a logical, rational human being and is disgusted by the concept of a TS.
That's not OK?

No one (in my reading) attacked this particular provider.
This particular provider seems to insist that because they think of themselves in a certain way then everyone else must also.
They are entitled to think of themselves in anyway they wish.
They are entitled to call themselves anything they want.

They are not entitled to police other peoples opinion on whether or not to call a person with a penis He or She.

/sigh

I see a double standard here .


Name Calling ..

If the TS who is a male wants to be called a girl because TS thinks it is a girl.
That's OK.

If another person thinks of himself as a logical, rational human being and is disgusted by the concept of a TS.
That's not OK?

No one (in my reading) attacked this particular provider.
This particular provider seems to insist that because they think of themselves in a certain way then everyone else must also.
They are entitled to think of themselves in anyway they wish.
They are entitled to call themselves anything they want.

They are not entitled to police other peoples opinion on whether or not to call a person with a penis He or She. Originally Posted by harkontume

or it!

I see a double standard here .
No you don't.


Name Calling ..
Is not what I did. I identified a hateful opinion expressed by a couple do parties here.

If the TS who is a male wants to be called a girl because TS thinks it is a girl.
That's OK.

If another person thinks of himself as a logical, rational human being and is disgusted by the concept of a TS.
That's not OK?
Correct.

The above is a pristine example of the bigot's Go To argument. He or she likes to make a statement expressing his/her feelings of hate, then claim to be equally persecuted whenever someone calls them down on it.

So, to answer your question, no, it's not ok and no, there is no double standard here. Whenever someone like myself calls someone else down for being a racist/homophobe/mysogonyst/ect it is not "just as bad" as the original hate-filled statement. It just isn't. And I don't believe for a second that you or anyone else really believes that. You don't get to call play the victim here.

No "logical, rational" human being is disgusted by the concept of another human being. It just doesn't work that way. If you find yourself repulsed by others, we have words to identify that.

No one (in my reading) attacked this particular provider.

You are completely wrong here. Referring to a woman as He or It is both hateful, juvenile and an attack. Claiming anything else is both a lie and a little cowardly. You know better.


This particular provider seems to insist that because they think of themselves in a certain way then everyone else must also.
They are entitled to think of themselves in anyway they wish.
They are entitled to call themselves anything they want.

Try this, apply a racial slur to the above argument instead of a gender identifier and see if this argument holds up.

This provider is a human being and deserves to be treated as such.

They are not entitled to police other peoples opinion on whether or not to call a person with a penis He or She.[/QUOTE]

Again, a favorite argument of bigots everywhere. Of course they are. They are entitled to exactly that. All human beings are.

Again, try replacing the offensive terms with n****r or c**t and see how far his logic takes you.




I realize this is a difficult concept for most. Thats because its brand new to most of you. That's ok. It's supposed to be hard. Everything is difficult when it's new.

I will grant you all the following: The term ignorant is not a slur or an insult. It just means uneducated on a particular subject. Some of you are ignorant here. There's no shame in that. There's nothing wrong with that.

The problem comes when you start deliberately insulting a person based on something like their race/sexual orientation/gender/religion/etc. You don't get to decide which of those are acceptable or not. And neither do I. Only that person does.

I realize many of you are going to feel threatened/attacked by this post. That's only natural. Again, this is a difficult concept for most of us to wrap our heads around. Most people have a hard enough time dealing with the concept of a differing sexual orientation. Many people have questions about their sexuality in their lifetime. Very few of us ever have to deal with questions about our gender identity. That's a whole 'nother level for most of us.

The important thing to understand is that just because someone is (I'll admit, wildly) different than your life experience does not give you the right to attack that person. It's irrational. It's illogical. And, yes, it is hateful. If you feel uncomfortable/repulsed/disgusted nu this then it is necessary for you to grow as a person. That's ok. We all have to do that from time to time.

I see a double standard here .
No you don't. I see no standards.... Just another opinion I disagree with...

Name Calling ..
Is not what I did. I identified a hateful opinion expressed by a couple do parties here. hateful to you perhaps. IMO opinion hatred requires much more of an investment in an emotion than I care to make..

If the TS who is a male wants to be called a girl because TS thinks it is a girl.
That's OK. OK with you..... But here in the State of Texas a person born genetically as a male is always a male in the eyes of the law. If he walks into a female restroom he can be arrested, tried and convicted even. Normally though he will simply be ticketed. What you or I think really does not matter. The law currently sees him as a man.

If another person thinks of himself as a logical, rational human being and is disgusted by the concept of a TS.
That's not OK?
Correct. Why not? You are trying to be some Moral Police in this case.

The above is a pristine example of the bigot's Go To argument. He or she likes to make a statement expressing his/her feelings of hate, then claim to be equally persecuted whenever someone calls them down on it. I do not follow the "logic" of your argument.

So, to answer your question, no, it's not ok and no, there is no double standard here. Whenever someone like myself calls someone else down for being a racist/homophobe/mysogonyst/ect it is not "just as bad" as the original hate-filled statement. It just isn't. That's not much of an argument.... And I don't believe for a second that you or anyone else really believes that. You don't get to call play the victim here. I don't think anyone here is being victimized.....

No "logical, rational" human being is disgusted by the concept of another human being. It just doesn't work that way.

That is a heck of a statement to make. People are often repulsed by others for a variety pf reasons. Feel free to expand on why "it doesn't work that way"...

If you find yourself repulsed by others, we have words to identify that.

No one (in my reading) attacked this particular provider.

You are completely wrong here. Referring to a woman as He or It is both hateful, juvenile and an attack. Claiming anything else is both a lie and a little cowardly. You know better. HE... is a MAN.... THAT is the LAW in the State of Texas.... It is LAW because a large segment of the people in this State believe it is right. We do not get to simply decide we are what we choose to be.... The Petsmart near my house has an incredibly hot groomer..... If you logic worked I should be able get her to give me a bath and massage my prostate for $39 BY CLAIMING TO BE A DOG.

This particular provider seems to insist that because they think of themselves in a certain way then everyone else must also.
They are entitled to think of themselves in anyway they wish.
They are entitled to call themselves anything they want.

Try this, apply a racial slur to the above argument instead of a gender identifier and see if this argument holds up. Why? It is NOT a racial slur. You can't make that argument in this case.

This provider is a human being and deserves to be treated as such. He is being treated as such. You are belittling him in all honesty assuming he lacks the ability to defend his own stated opinions.

They are not entitled to police other peoples opinion on whether or not to call a person with a penis He or She. Originally Posted by amoryb

We don't need opinions to decide that. We have a LAW that defines it.... Even if he gets his dick whacked off and a fleshlight installed between his legs he's still a guy

Again, a favorite argument of bigots everywhere. Of course they are. They are entitled to exactly that. All human beings are.

Again, try replacing the offensive terms with n****r or c**t and see how far his logic takes you. It would be a different argument in the case of racial discrimination... It's a totally different issue in that case. Calling someone a cunt might appear to be rude until you go under the surface and find she truly is a cunt. Niether is the case here.

You lack the ability to make the argument regarding the facts here so you are attempting to change the facts to make your argument.... Oooops... Sorry... Not working

I realize this is a difficult concept for most. Thats because its brand new to most of you. That's ok. It's supposed to be hard. Everything is difficult when it's new.

It's not new at all..... Maybe to some... But not around here.

I will grant you all the following: The term ignorant is not a slur or an insult. It just means uneducated on a particular subject. Some of you are ignorant here. There's no shame in that. There's nothing wrong with that. I agree... You have displayed a considerable amount of ignorance yourself in this matter...

The problem comes when you start deliberately insulting a person based on something like their race/sexual orientation/gender/religion/etc. You don't get to decide which of those are acceptable or not. And neither do I. Only that person does. Unfortunately....... Fortunately?... (I'm neutral on the subject) in Texas the issue has been decided for him

I realize many of you are going to feel threatened/attacked by this post. No... Not at all..... You come across as threatened? Is there something you want to share with the group?

That's only natural. Again, this is a difficult concept for most of us to wrap our heads around. Most people have a hard enough time dealing with the concept of a differing sexual orientation. Many people have questions about their sexuality in their lifetime. You speak as if you are doing some questioning...... Very few of us ever have to deal with questions about our gender identity. That's a whole 'nother level for most of us.

The important thing to understand is that just because someone is (I'll admit, wildly) different than your life experience does not give you the right to attack that person. No one was doing any attacking..... except perhaps the OP and now you..... It's irrational. It's illogical. And, yes, it is hateful. Don't worry too much... we foregive you..... If you feel uncomfortable/repulsed/disgusted nu this then it is necessary for you to grow as a person. Or not...That's ok. So is choosing not to. We all have to do that from time to time.[/QUOTE]

In some matters......

I dealt with his type as well as yours in my home... and in the courts in working with the young man that was placed in our home around years ago..... From the Age of 6 to the age of 19 he fought a never ending battle for acceptance as a woman..... He chose to do so by being combative and demanding and pushing many of the same arguments as did supporters of his right to do so..... Around the age of 22 he had worked through some of the hostility in him....met and took a partner and married (they allow it)..... he is now the proud father of a 1 year old boy...

Oh... He worked through his sexual identity issues as well..... I heard all that female brain crap out of him and others back then.... Somewhere along the way.... he discovered his soulmate (a lady) and he has since been a normal heterosexual male.....

He has a very interesting story I hope he writes some day.... A system of tolerance and a small army of supporters that confused him more than his own feelings and trapped him into being a poster child for kids like him in placement in California... Everytime he started to question who he was there were people like you and worse propping him up and shoving him into a corner fighting for his right to be a female.....

There are a lot studies on the subject..... none are conclusive.... Here in Texas the matter is simple....

Born a Male with Male DNA... your a male..... No amount of legal paperwork or ids from any other state matter in the end of a legal issue here....

I am sure over time we will hear more.....

So far you and he only presented your own opinions.... And you do so by insulting others that have a right to theirs.... The way to acceptance does not lie through unsupported arguments.....

I see a double standard here .
No you don't.
Standard pseudo liberal attitude of telling someone what they see with out an argument.

Name Calling ..
Is not what I did. I identified a hateful opinion expressed by a couple do parties here.
Following the same above logic.
Oh yes , you did!

If the TS who is a male wants to be called a girl because TS thinks it is a girl.
That's OK.

If another person thinks of himself as a logical, rational human being and is disgusted by the concept of a TS.
That's not OK?
Correct.

The above is a pristine example of the bigot's Go To argument. He or she likes to make a statement expressing his/her feelings of hate, then claim to be equally persecuted whenever someone calls them down on it.
And this is the "Go To" argument for pseudo liberal know it alls.
Ignore the argument and attack the motives of the other person.
Label it hate. Label it anything but never address the argument.

So, to answer your question,(finally) no, it's not ok and no, there is no double standard here. Whenever someone like myself calls (pseudo liberal nutcase) someone else down for being a racist/homophobe/mysogonyst/ect it is not "just as bad" as the original hate-filled statement.
I do love this circular argument that what you believe justifies your name calling but what others believe cannot be used to justify calling a person with a dick HE.

It just isn't. And I don't believe for a second that you or anyone else really believes that. You don't get to call play the victim here.
Please please, please , read the text.
I was responding to your attack on others.
Therefore using "logic" ( look it up in Wikipedia) I could not have been victimized by your attacks.

No "logical, rational" human being is disgusted by the concept of another human being. It just doesn't work that way. If you find yourself repulsed by others, we have words to identify that.
So sad, taking the specific statement and going to the General thus changing the argument.
No one says that human beings are considered repulsive or even the OP on this occasion.
What is repulsive to many is the concept of a TS. Of medically altering your body to that extant.
I am repulsed by behavior not human beings.
( for example Furbees, or Hitlers Nazi SS concentration camps)


No one (in my reading) attacked this particular provider.

You are completely wrong here. Referring to a woman as He or It is both hateful, juvenile and an attack. Claiming anything else is both a lie and a little cowardly. You know better.
You're in the government aren't you!
As I recall the OP started this thread as a argument to be called "she" not as a result of any attack on this board. I may be wrong.. I don't read everything.. lol

This particular provider seems to insist that because they think of themselves in a certain way then everyone else must also.
They are entitled to think of themselves in anyway they wish.
They are entitled to call themselves anything they want.

Try this, apply a racial slur to the above argument instead of a gender identifier and see if this argument holds up.

So predictable, any disagreement with the thought POLICE is racist.
That way one never has to address the argument.

This provider is a human being and deserves to be treated as such.

They are not entitled to police other peoples opinion on whether or not to call a person with a penis He or She. Originally Posted by amoryb

Again, a favorite argument of bigots everywhere. Of course they are. They are entitled to exactly that. All human beings are.

Again, try replacing the offensive terms with n****r or c**t and see how far his logic takes you.

So predictable, any disagreement with the thought POLICE is racist.
That way one never has to address the argument.

I realize this is a difficult concept for most. Thats because its brand new to most of you. That's ok. It's supposed to be hard. Everything is difficult when it's new.

I will grant you all the following: The term ignorant is not a slur or an insult. It just means uneducated on a particular subject. Some of you are ignorant here. There's no shame in that. There's nothing wrong with that.
Blah, blah
The problem comes when you start deliberately insulting a person based on something like their race/sexual orientation/gender/religion/etc. You don't get to decide which of those are acceptable or not. And neither do I. Only that person does.
blah, blah , blah
I realize many of you are going to feel threatened/attacked by this post. That's only natural. Again, this is a difficult concept for most of us to wrap our heads around. Most people have a hard enough time dealing with the concept of a differing sexual orientation. Many people have questions about their sexuality in their lifetime. Very few of us ever have to deal with questions about our gender identity. That's a whole 'nother level for most of us.
blah, blah , blah, blah

The important thing to understand is that just because someone is (I'll admit, wildly) different than your life experience does not give you the right to attack that person. It's irrational. It's illogical. And, yes, it is hateful. If you feel uncomfortable/repulsed/disgusted nu this then it is necessary for you to grow as a person. That's ok. We all have to do that from time to time.[/QUOTE]
OMG!!
I GIVE UP!

PLEASE JUST SHUT UP!

IDK, to me someone who wears a wig, has no breasts, and is not extremely feminine and smooth from body hair is a CD. Sorry if your "mental" status is of a lady but if your physical exterior is not as well then I see all dude.

Again, a favorite argument of bigots everywhere. Of course they are. They are entitled to exactly that. All human beings are.

Again, try replacing the offensive terms with n****r or c**t and see how far his logic takes you.

So predictable, any disagreement with the thought POLICE is racist.
That way one never has to address the argument.

I realize this is a difficult concept for most. Thats because its brand new to most of you. That's ok. It's supposed to be hard. Everything is difficult when it's new.

I will grant you all the following: The term ignorant is not a slur or an insult. It just means uneducated on a particular subject. Some of you are ignorant here. There's no shame in that. There's nothing wrong with that.
Blah, blah
The problem comes when you start deliberately insulting a person based on something like their race/sexual orientation/gender/religion/etc. You don't get to decide which of those are acceptable or not. And neither do I. Only that person does.
blah, blah , blah
I realize many of you are going to feel threatened/attacked by this post. That's only natural. Again, this is a difficult concept for most of us to wrap our heads around. Most people have a hard enough time dealing with the concept of a differing sexual orientation. Many people have questions about their sexuality in their lifetime. Very few of us ever have to deal with questions about our gender identity. That's a whole 'nother level for most of us.
blah, blah , blah, blah

The important thing to understand is that just because someone is (I'll admit, wildly) different than your life experience does not give you the right to attack that person. It's irrational. It's illogical. And, yes, it is hateful. If you feel uncomfortable/repulsed/disgusted nu this then it is necessary for you to grow as a person. That's ok. We all have to do that from time to time. Originally Posted by harkontume

OMG!!
I GIVE UP!

PLEASE JUST SHUT UP![/QUOTE]

Perhaps..... Where amoryb is concerned...... Maybe it's just her time of the month?

I refuse to participate in an debate that's been repeated practically word for word ad infinitum across the internet with never anything new contributed by either side. If someone isn't convinced the first thousand times they heard the script, they aren't going to change their mind now.

I'm going to address something else Whispers seemed to imply. It would be an understatement to say I'm skeptical of the idea that anyone can choose their sexual orientation. If you're heterosexual, ask yourself: can you choose to be sexually attracted to the same sex? I don't mean if you're in the closet or you're bi; I mean if you're no more attracted to the same sex than you are a turtle. I know I didn't have a choice. I was born straight. Why assume it's different for others?

I want to hear more from the DUDE that started this thread!