The OP asks: Can an escort or [escort] agency call the police if you don't pay the full amount due to bad service?
The OP wants an answer immediately, which again illustrates that a prudent hobbyist (or provider) should have an attorney on retainer to answer such questions.
The answer to the OP's question is 'yes.' An escort or escort agency could call the police for ANY reason, including that a client didn't pay all of a fee. But the real questions are: (1) Did the hobbyist (H) and the provider (P) have a legally-enforceable agreement? (2) If yes, would the police enforce the agreement?
Whether H and P had a legally-enforceable agreement depends on the nature of the 'escort' services. If H and P agreed that P would only serve as H's companion, without sex being involved, that could be a legally-enforceable agreement. On the other hand, if H and P agreed that H would pay P for sex, that involves illegal conduct, and the agreement would be invalid. It is axiomatic that an agreement involving an illegal subject matter is unenforceable in court.
Assuming H and P had a legally-enforceable agreement, would the police enforce it on H under penalty of arrest? No, probably not. Undoubtedly, the officer would decline to get involved and tell the P to seek a civil, not a criminal, remedy.
- ShysterJon
- 07-20-2014, 03:05 PM
- Unique_Carpenter
- 07-20-2014, 05:36 PM
... which again illustrates that a prudent hobbyist (or provider) should have an attorney on retainer to answer such questions. Originally Posted by ShysterJonThank you SJ.
And a follow-up question for the class:
How many of you do not have at least one attorney business card in wallet/purse?
Raise your hands.
All with their hands up, follow the next instruction:
For those with headaches, reread Holly's post, and pick up business cards from your attorney.
Apologies SJ, I couldn't resist.
- Fast Gunn
- 07-20-2014, 06:17 PM
I believe that the question pertained to general advice, not as a platform to promote your own services.
I suppose it is hypothetically possible that an Escort Agency could call the police, but to my mind, it is more the threat that puts (hopefully) enough fear in you to pay up and avoid the hassle.
. . . So take this incident as your first test of manhood. Are you going to be a man and call their bluff, or are you just going to be another chump and allow the extortion?
I suppose it is hypothetically possible that an Escort Agency could call the police, but to my mind, it is more the threat that puts (hopefully) enough fear in you to pay up and avoid the hassle.
. . . So take this incident as your first test of manhood. Are you going to be a man and call their bluff, or are you just going to be another chump and allow the extortion?
- Guest061814
- 07-20-2014, 06:49 PM
I believe that the question pertained to general advice, not as a platform to promote your own services. Originally Posted by Fast GunnHuh? Who was promoting?
Thank you SJ.((((Raises hand))))
And a follow-up question for the class:
How many of you do not have at least one attorney business card in wallet/purse?
Raise your hands.
All with their hands up, follow the next instruction:
For those with headaches, reread Holly's post, and pick up business cards from your attorney.
Apologies SJ, I couldn't resist. Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter
- JohnnyCap
- 07-20-2014, 07:30 PM
- miami72
- 07-20-2014, 07:52 PM
Thanks to all, but has been resolved. was a learning lesson and i think I'm done with this hobby
- PhillyChik
- 07-20-2014, 08:21 PM
The OP has decided his course of action, but the thread subject evolved now to apply to a broader audience. Also, I am doubtful the gentleman touting himself as an Attorney is actually that. RL info is a no-no. And, this is in the national board. Attorneys--unless federal--cannot practice law or advise potential clients except in the state he or she has passed the bar. Furthermore, advertising legal services is very strict and vary state to state. I doubt he would risk his career for this site. If not actually an attorney--he can be jailed for impersonation of one. But, I digress....
Search ALA CODE § 13A-8-10 : Alabama Code - Section 13A-8-10: THEFT OF SERVICES - DEFINITION
(a) A person commits the crime of theft of services if:
(1) He intentionally obtains services known by him to be available only for compensation by deception, threat, false token or other means to avoid payment for the services; or
(2) Having control over the disposition of services of others to which he is not entitled, he knowingly diverts those services to his own benefit or to the benefit of another not entitled thereto.
(b) "Services" includes but is not necessarily limited to labor, professional services, transportation, telephone or other public services, accommodation in motels, hotels, restaurants or elsewhere, admission to exhibitions, computer services and the supplying of equipment for use.
(c) Where compensation for services is ordinarily paid immediately upon the rendering of them, as in the case of motels, hotels, restaurants and the like, absconding without payment or bona fide offer to pay is prima facie evidence under subsection (a) that the services were obtained by deception.
(d) If services are obtained under subdivision (a) (1) from a hotel, motel, inn, restaurant or cafe, no prosecution can be commenced after 120 days from the time of the offense.
(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §3210; Acts 1978, No. 770, p. 1110, §1; Acts 1979, No. 79-471, p. 862, §1.)
0 334 0 78
Now, it's still very complicated, because of the potential illegality, payment agreements regarding when, etc. I would love to speak in detail to the OP and figure it out. Now, if the agency could and does involve police--he may actually have the upper hand (This is deceptive, but his case, if this were all legal, would get thrown out or settled anyway--and any business that pushes for bs like this even though the customer wants to make it right--for humiliation/power purposes I assume--deserves a little fun.)
Say he gets arrested and it goes to trial because they appear to be a law-abiding escort agency--which is near impossible (Plus, at that point, goverment prying into their business would occur, possibly resulting in money laundering charges if illegal activity were found, since real property cannot be purchased with money obtained illegally), if the charges he faced outweigh a soliciting charge, he could easily prove they are a P4P biz, and the tables would turn. His charges may even be dropped as a plea deal:
Under Alabama law, it is a defense to a theft-related offense if the person honestly believed, at the time of the alleged offense, that they had a valid claim to the property or services that were taken. If the finder of fact (the jury or a judge sitting without a jury) finds the defense credible, and as a result cannot conclude that every element of the charge has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the result should be a verdict of not guilty.(Ala. Code §13A-8-12.)
Whew. Also, only a sleazy attorney tells masses of people they should have an attorney on retainer BC of involvement in what could be illegal activity. No stand-up attorney would accept that.
"You have to know the rules, to break the rules"
Search ALA CODE § 13A-8-10 : Alabama Code - Section 13A-8-10: THEFT OF SERVICES - DEFINITION
(a) A person commits the crime of theft of services if:
(1) He intentionally obtains services known by him to be available only for compensation by deception, threat, false token or other means to avoid payment for the services; or
(2) Having control over the disposition of services of others to which he is not entitled, he knowingly diverts those services to his own benefit or to the benefit of another not entitled thereto.
(b) "Services" includes but is not necessarily limited to labor, professional services, transportation, telephone or other public services, accommodation in motels, hotels, restaurants or elsewhere, admission to exhibitions, computer services and the supplying of equipment for use.
(c) Where compensation for services is ordinarily paid immediately upon the rendering of them, as in the case of motels, hotels, restaurants and the like, absconding without payment or bona fide offer to pay is prima facie evidence under subsection (a) that the services were obtained by deception.
(d) If services are obtained under subdivision (a) (1) from a hotel, motel, inn, restaurant or cafe, no prosecution can be commenced after 120 days from the time of the offense.
(Acts 1977, No. 607, p. 812, §3210; Acts 1978, No. 770, p. 1110, §1; Acts 1979, No. 79-471, p. 862, §1.)
0 334 0 78
Now, it's still very complicated, because of the potential illegality, payment agreements regarding when, etc. I would love to speak in detail to the OP and figure it out. Now, if the agency could and does involve police--he may actually have the upper hand (This is deceptive, but his case, if this were all legal, would get thrown out or settled anyway--and any business that pushes for bs like this even though the customer wants to make it right--for humiliation/power purposes I assume--deserves a little fun.)
Say he gets arrested and it goes to trial because they appear to be a law-abiding escort agency--which is near impossible (Plus, at that point, goverment prying into their business would occur, possibly resulting in money laundering charges if illegal activity were found, since real property cannot be purchased with money obtained illegally), if the charges he faced outweigh a soliciting charge, he could easily prove they are a P4P biz, and the tables would turn. His charges may even be dropped as a plea deal:
Under Alabama law, it is a defense to a theft-related offense if the person honestly believed, at the time of the alleged offense, that they had a valid claim to the property or services that were taken. If the finder of fact (the jury or a judge sitting without a jury) finds the defense credible, and as a result cannot conclude that every element of the charge has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the result should be a verdict of not guilty.(Ala. Code §13A-8-12.)
Whew. Also, only a sleazy attorney tells masses of people they should have an attorney on retainer BC of involvement in what could be illegal activity. No stand-up attorney would accept that.
"You have to know the rules, to break the rules"
- ShysterJon
- 07-20-2014, 08:26 PM
PhillyChik, are you REALLY asserting I'm not an attorney? Obviously, you're new around here. And stupid. Would any other member like to handle this?
- PhillyChik
- 07-20-2014, 08:36 PM
I have no way of knowing. But, I think it's irresponsible of you to put that out there if so. Just my opinion.
Either way, name-calling and attempting to discredit "my opinions" based on my length of time belonging to a forum is unprofessional and just ignorant.
Either way, name-calling and attempting to discredit "my opinions" based on my length of time belonging to a forum is unprofessional and just ignorant.
- ShysterJon
- 07-20-2014, 08:41 PM
I have no way of knowing. But, I think it's irresponsible of you to put that out there if so. Just my opinion.It's your completely uninformed opinion. I've been on the boards for 20 years offering advice to providers and hobbyists FOR FREE to keep them safe. What have you done, besides showing us all you're an idiot?
Either way, name-calling and attempting to discredit "my opinions" based on my length of time belonging to a forum is unprofessional and just ignorant. Originally Posted by PhillyChik
- PhillyChik
- 07-20-2014, 08:47 PM
My opinion is that it would be irresponsible of an attorney to publicize his info in a p4p board. THAT is not uninformed. Don't take it personal, I would say the same to anyone else.
And, I'm not an idiot. Or stupid. THOSE are uninformed opinions.
And, I'm not an idiot. Or stupid. THOSE are uninformed opinions.
- ShysterJon
- 07-20-2014, 08:50 PM
My opinion is that it would be irresponsible of an attorney to publicize his info in a p4p board. THAT is not uninformed. Don't take it personal, I would say the same to anyone else.Uh, we know what your opinion is. It's also uninformed. Unless you went to law school before your career as a provider began, it's an uninformed opinion. I'll leave the sucking and fucking to you. You leave the law to me, dimwit.
And, I'm not an idiot. Or stupid. THOSE are uninformed opinions. Originally Posted by PhillyChik
- Fast Gunn
- 07-20-2014, 09:14 PM
* Sigh *
Well, it's all right there, proudly stated in front of his name.
. . . What do you expect from a shyster? An authentic attorney would speak in a more dignified manner than to use crude slander.
Well, it's all right there, proudly stated in front of his name.
. . . What do you expect from a shyster? An authentic attorney would speak in a more dignified manner than to use crude slander.
- Guest061814
- 07-20-2014, 09:15 PM
This just turned into the best thread EVER!!!
- ShysterJon
- 07-20-2014, 09:16 PM
Well, Fast Gunn, if you actually KNEW any attorneys, you'd know we don't suffer fools gladly, including you.