businesspeople who classify employees as contractors are assholes

You're wrong by half. A new Yale study puts the number of illegals in the U.S. at over 22 million.

22 million American jobs that are denied to 22 million American workers who are now dependent on the social safety net funded by the taxpaying American workers who do have jobs and pay local, state and federal taxes. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

The unemployment rate is close to all time lows. How are you going to get the 22 million Americans who don't want to work back on payrolls? Trump's not going to do it, he doesn't have the stomach to cut entitlements. If 11 million or 22 million workers, who are doing work other people don't want to do, suddenly disappear it's going to hurt.

Budman you proclaim that what I said was mostly unture and then reword exactly wtf I said!

Be like me saying 2 plus 2 equal 4 and you saying I'm wrong and going into some long tirade that concludes 2 plus 2 equal 4.

It is like your point was to say I'm wrong and then hopefully write enough bs to tire the reader out before coming to the exact same conclusion as I. Originally Posted by WTF

That may be what you meant but it is not what you said. Builders or GC's for the most part do not hire tradesmen as employees. They sub the work out to legitimate subcontractors.

That may be what you meant but it is not what you said. Originally Posted by Budman

May be that's what he wished he had said after it appeared wrong.

Option 3.

Fred there are 11 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Most are working. As contractors, taxed employees, under the table cash, you name it. Most of them work directly or indirectly for wealthy millionaires Democrats that are fully aware of their status, but are willing to foist an underclass on the US so they can have pretty lawns, roofs, and gardens. After all, they are only doing jobs the leftwing, racbaiting, bigotted, fascist thugs would never take. Originally Posted by themystic

FTFY

There are far more than 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States.

That may be what you meant but it is not what you said. Builders or GC's for the most part do not hire tradesmen as employees. They sub the work out to legitimate subcontractors. Originally Posted by Budman

I explained why 'small builders ' do not hire 'employees '.
I said what I meant and meant what I said.

LL and FF seem to still not understand the Home Building business.

you on the other hand seem to know exactly what you're talking about....except about what I had written.

FTFY

There are far more than 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States. Originally Posted by kehaar

But this is not a thtead about that

I disagree that most are working. Many are working, but others are supported by the workers, and also get government benefits.

We need the taxes from every worker, and do not need to give government handouts to illegals, if we are ever going to reduce the debt of our once great nation. Originally Posted by friendly fred

You make a good point and I understand it. I don't know why we don't give Amnesty to the ones who are here. Those who employ them should "sponsor" them. They aint going away. I remember when Putin said he would have them all deported. We cant solve the problem with some stupid wall and try deporting 11 million people. Putin needs to get realistic and tell the Orange Man

Good for you. So you had your yardman fill out the IRS's Form I-9 when you hired him to verify he's eligible for employment. And you also have a Form W-4 on file so you can calculate how much to withholding from his paychecks. You withhold social security, medicare, federal income tax, federal unemployment tax, and state unemployment tax from his paychecks. You deposit the withholding with the federal government and regularly file Form 940 to report withholding. You file form W-2 with the IRS at the end of the year to report your yardman's wages and withholding, again. You pay workman's compensation insurance. You do the necessary reporting and have the safety guidelines and policies in effect to comply with OSHA standards. You've posted the notices regarding discrimination in the workplace required by law. So you are correctly doing what you need to do because your yardman is an employee and not a contractor.

Wouldn't it be easier just to mow your own lawn? Originally Posted by Tiny

Thanks Tiny. That's exactly how that scenario would be legal. Funny I think Ill just have the Mexican who mows my yard now keep doing it and not worry about it. ( Ill ask my neighbors if they do the same. I think they probably do like I do)

For the most part that statement is incorrect. Home builders typically do not have tradesmen on their payroll. They hire subcontractors who may or may not be licensed depending on the trade and the state. These subcontractors are legitimate subcontractors. They in turn hire labor that in many cases should be classified as employees but are classified as subcontractors to save money. If they are an employee the employer must verify their status to work in this country by requiring certain pieces of ID. The ID may be stolen or forged but the employer is not an expert on forged documents so he hires the employee. He has done what the law requires. If he classifies them as subcontractors he does not need to verify legal status and he does not have to withhold taxes or match FICA. The sub is typically not on the GC's insurance so it is much cheaper to classify them as subs. To be competitive in the construction industry this is almost a requirement. The small subcontractor that has 10 employees and is bidding the same projects as another sub that has 10 subs is at a huge disadvantage in overhead expense.



I have been out of the construction business for about 10 years now but we hired both employees and subs. We knew that some were illegal but as long as they produced the proper documents we were covered. Most of us have heard that the illegals are only hired because they can be paid less. I don't know about other companies or industries but we never paid anyone based on their legal status. We paid them based on what they could do for us to make money. Originally Posted by Budman

Great post. I have identical experience. Well written

FTFY

There are far more than 11 million illegal immigrants in the United States. Originally Posted by kehaar

Why would you alter my post? . Do you not respect that I'm entitled to my own views? You make think its cute, but its actually reminds me of the current President "false" reality he lives in. When he doesn't like something, he makes up shit then lies about it. That's what you did to my post

I don't think you understand what constitutes an independent contractor. When I hire a plumber to fix a leaky pipe, and pay his invoice, he is clearly an independent contractor, just like a hooker working at an AMP.

If I have a full time yard man at my house 40 hours a week, and tell him what jobs to do, he is an employee.

If I build homes and a plumber has three guys to help him and they work under his direction, they are employees, and matching taxes must be paid. Originally Posted by friendly fred

I think I do understand what constitute a independent contractor.

You are correct about the yard worker.

If you build a home and hire a plumber who has three guys working for him, you are not responsible for the three employees matching taxes. So why are you crying about homebuilders illegally using independent contractors to not pay proper taxes?

You're contradicting your own thread premise

Great post. I have identical experience. Well written Originally Posted by themystic

Hopefully LL and FF will read it.

Here is a link explaining the different business models between Fed Ex (contract workers) and UPS (union employees)

http://www.braunconsulting.com/bcg/n...nter20041.html

The unemployment rate is close to all time lows. How are you going to get the 22 million Americans who don't want to work back on payrolls? Trump's not going to do it, he doesn't have the stomach to cut entitlements. If 11 million or 22 million workers, who are doing work other people don't want to do, suddenly disappear it's going to hurt. Originally Posted by Tiny

Study the Law of Supply and Demand. Absent a surplus of cheap labor, wages will go up for those undesirable, menial jobs. Most people who wouldn't do those jobs for minimum wage because they are doing just as well on the government tit will be encouraged to work for twice what they are getting sitting on their ass. They're despicable creatures if they don't. Stop and/or deport the cheap, illegal labor supply, conniving business people won't have an exploitable labor resource to turn to.

I think a business should have severe penalties for purposefully misclassifying employees to skirt employment law.

It is unfair to American workers and honest competitors. Originally Posted by friendly fred

So do you think Fed Ex should be fined? Severely fined.

http://www.braunconsulting.com/bcg/n...nter20041.html

Study the Law of Supply and Demand. Absent a surplus of cheap labor, wages will go up for those undesirable, menial jobs. Most people who wouldn't do those jobs for minimum wage because they are doing just as well on the government tit will be encouraged to work for twice what they are getting sitting on their ass. They're despicable creatures if they don't. Stop and/or deport the cheap, illegal labor supply, conniving business people won't have an exploitable labor resource to turn to.
Originally Posted by I B Hankering

That aint happen yet IB. My company has been offering those jobs at great wages and they arent being filled by what you really mean. " white People". If you think these illegals are working cheap, you're wrong. At least in the construction industry they arent