Texas Constitutional Carry Law???

The amount of training (classroom & range) is seriously defective and inadequate for the realities of street life and self-defense against anything but a paper target on the line. Originally Posted by LexusLover

True! This is why I campaign for it to be a part of public school curriculum and for a compulsory 2 years of military service after secondary education.

True! This is why I campaign for it to be a part of public school curriculum and for a compulsory 2 years of military service after secondary education. Originally Posted by GastonGlock

Firearms training in "public school"? Do you actually believe that "military service" is beneficial for carrying handguns in public venues, eg malls ... movie theaters ... driving around in a vehicle?

Requiring military service creates a number of offensive issues in the service, which should be focused on one task and that is defending this country with weapon systems ... and support for those systems ...

... the socialization of the military in this country will result in the same bullshit that is occurring in the law enforcement community....thinning of the herd.

My point and concern is this: daily when out on the street I observe the behavior of persons operating motor vehicles with total disregard for the safety of those around them and even their own for that matter. Not only should they not have possession of a vehicle in public, but they should not be issued a license to operate one.

Now you want to teach firearms in public school ... driver's education has been around for decades! Young driver's carry the weight on auto accidents and death.

True! This is why I campaign for it to be a part of public school curriculum and for a compulsory 2 years of military service after secondary education. Originally Posted by GastonGlock

2 yr national guard service?

Firearms training in "public school"? Do you actually believe that "military service" is beneficial for carrying handguns in public venues, eg malls ... movie theaters ... driving around in a vehicle?

Requiring military service creates a number of offensive issues in the service, which should be focused on one task and that is defending this country with weapon systems ... and support for those systems ...

... the socialization of the military in this country will result in the same bullshit that is occurring in the law enforcement community....thinning of the herd.

My point and concern is this: daily when out on the street I observe the behavior of persons operating motor vehicles with total disregard for the safety of those around them and even their own for that matter. Not only should they not have possession of a vehicle in public, but they should not be issued a license to operate one.

Now you want to teach firearms in public school ... driver's education has been around for decades! Young driver's carry the weight on auto accidents and death. Originally Posted by LexusLover

we used to teach firearms in public schools up until 1970's when schools started killing the program off.

we used to teach firearms in public schools up until 1970's when schools started killing the program off. Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

Who is "we"? And where?

As an aside: If they "starting killing" in the 70's, it would be DOA in the current environment in which they are more interested it seems in adjusting students to their gender preference for the day upon arrival at the school.

FYI: I am familiar with school programs ... in the late 60's and 70's ... with teachers in the family also .... I have NEVER heard of firearms training in public schools....and that covers several varying school districts.

2 yr national guard service? Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

That reminds me of seeing NG armed with rifles patrolling the airport terminals shortly after 911 .... what's the muzzle velocity ... roughly 3,000 f/s ....

What about guys with VPO protective photos From ex+
Also what about felons who did there time.

What about guys with VPO protective photos From ex+
Also what about felons who did there time. Originally Posted by Ripmany

What about them .... ?

Are you watching Love After Lockup these days?

Who is "we"? And where?

As an aside: If they "starting killing" in the 70's, it would be DOA in the current environment in which they are more interested it seems in adjusting students to their gender preference for the day upon arrival at the school.

FYI: I am familiar with school programs ... in the late 60's and 70's ... with teachers in the family also .... I have NEVER heard of firearms training in public schools....and that covers several varying school districts. Originally Posted by LexusLover

not all state schools had firearms training. some of it was regional. some had it, some didn't. texas apparently wasn't one of them. they were in club format.

NY used to have gun clubs in schools before they got rid of them.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/...les-c-w-cooke/

Gun Clubs at School
By Charles C. W. Cooke

January 21, 2013 9:00 AM

The notion of schools as “gun-free zones” flies in the face of history.

Once upon a time, it was common for an American child to be packed off to school with a rifle on his back and for him to come home smiling and safe in the evening. Shooting clubs, now quietly withering away, were once such a mainstay of American high-school life that in the first half of the 20th century they were regularly installed in the basements of new educational buildings. Now, they are in their death throes, victims of political correctness, a willful misunderstanding of what constitutes “gun safety,” and our deplorable tendency toward litigiousness.

In 1975, New York state had over 80 school districts with rifle teams. In 1984, that had dropped to 65. By 1999 there were just 26. The state’s annual riflery championship was shut down in 1986 for lack of demand. This, sadly, is a familiar story across the country. The clubs are fading from memory, too. A Chicago Tribune report from 2007 notes the astonishment of a Wisconsin mother who discovered that her children’s school had a range on site. “I was surprised, because I never would have suspected to have something like that in my child’s school,” she told the Tribune. The district’s superintendent admitted that it was now a rarity, confessing that he “often gets raised eyebrows” if he mentions the range to other educators. The astonished mother raised her eyebrows — and then led a fight to have the range closed. “Guns and school don’t mix,” she averred. “If you have guns in school, that does away with the whole zero-tolerance policy.”

But how wise is that “zero-tolerance policy”? Until 1989, there were only a few school shootings in which more than two victims were killed. This was despite widespread ownership of — and familiarity with — weapons and an absence of “gun-free zones.” As George Mason University economist Walter E. Williams has observed, for most of American history “private transfers of guns to juveniles were unrestricted. Often a youngster’s 12th or 14th birthday present was a shiny new .22-caliber rifle, given to him by his father.” This was a right of passage, conventional and uncontroversial across the country. “Gee, Dad . . . A Winchester!” read one particularly famous ad. “In Virginia,” Williams writes, “rural areas had a long tradition of high-school students going hunting in the morning before school, and sometimes storing their guns in the trunk of their cars during the school day, parked on the school grounds.” Many of these guns they could buy at almost any hardware store or gas station — or even by mail order. The 1968 Gun Control Act, supported happily by major gun manufacturers who wished to push out their competition, put a stop to this.

Catalogs and magazines from the 1940s, ’50s, and ’60s are packed full of gun advertisements aimed at children or parents. “What Every Parent Should Know When a Boy or Girl Wants a Gun,” one proclaims, next to a picture of a young boy and his sister excitedly presenting a “Rifle Catalog.” “Get This Cowboy Carbine with Your Christmas Money,” suggests another. It was placed widely in boys’ magazines by the Daisy Manufacturing Company of Plymouth, Mich. All a teenager needed do to be sent a rifle was send a money order for $2.50 and tick a box confirming they were old enough.

In one cartoon from the 1950s, two boys discuss a rifle in front of their father. “It’s safe for him to use, isn’t it, Dad?” the first boy asks. “Sure,” Dad responds. “Pete knows the code of the junior rifleman.” Back then, Pete almost certainly did. As John Lott Jr. has noted, once upon a time,

it was common for schools to have shooting clubs. Even in New York City, virtually every public high school had a shooting club up until 1969. It was common for high school students to take their guns with them to school on the subways in the morning and turn them over to their homeroom teacher or the gym coach so the heavy guns would simply be out of the way. After school, students would pick up their guns when it was time for practice.

That is, if they handed them in at all. Up until the ’70s, especially in rural areas, it was commonplace to see kids entering and leaving their school campuses with rifle bags slung lazily over their backs. Guns were left in school lockers, and rifles and shotguns were routinely seen in high-school parking lots, hanging in the rear windows of pickup trucks. A good friend of mine is from North Dakota. His father was telling me recently that in the late 1960s he would hunt before school and then take his rifle — and his bloodstained kills — to school to show his teachers. He and his friends would compare their shooting techniques in the school grounds. Nobody batted an eyelid. In North Dakota, school shootings were non-existent; in the country at large, they were extremely rare.

Despite my having been to school in England, this is not too strange a scene to me. Had you come through my school’s gates on a Thursday afternoon, you might have been horrified to see me, along with a motley collection of boys and girls, 16 to 18 years old, dressed in the camouflage of the Combined Cadet Force and carrying SA-80s around. An SA-80 is the standard-issue rifle used by the British army. It would be accurately described as an “assault rifle,” and it is a sufficiently serious piece of equipment to have been given to British soldiers fighting in both Iraq wars and in Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, Kosovo, Bosnia, and Northern Ireland. We had to learn strict gun safety. We had to disassemble and reassemble our guns under timed conditions. We had to shoot them at targets that were shaped like men. Once, at the school’s firing range, we even fired a machine gun.

The clay-pigeon shooting group was one of my school’s strongest sports teams, and its members would walk nonchalantly around with their shotguns in bags. Sometimes, they would even take their locked guns to lessons and prop them up against the wall. All of our teachers survived the ordeal.

The notion that guns should form a part of education has a rich pedigree in our republic. In 1785, Thomas Jefferson wrote to his 15-year-old nephew Peter Carr with some scholarly advice. Having instructed him to read “antient history in detail” and expounded a little on which works of “Roman history” and “Greek and Latin poetry” were the most profitable, Jefferson counseled that

a strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks.

Such attitudes would no doubt be regarded as alarming today, as unthinkable as the old — and true — slogan that “America grew up with a rifle in its hand.” So widespread has been the shift in educators’ attitudes that in 1990 Congress legislated to render all schools “gun-free zones.” The law made reasonable exceptions for weapons that were taken to school “for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone” and, regardless, it was struck down on grounds of federal overreach in 1997. Still, that such an exception needed carving out at all would have astonished many a few years earlier, not to mention inconvenienced hundreds of thousands of harmless students who, in the process of going about their business, innocently and safely kept rifles in their cars.

— Charles C. W. Cooke is an editorial associate at National Review.

No Mass Shootings When Schools Had Gun Clubs

By Michael Dorstewitz
Friday, 16 February 2018 12:19 PM
Current | Bio | Archive

After every mass-shooting, a chorus of Democratic voices always rise in a crescendo of stricter gun control measures.

Wednesday’s tragedy, that took the lives of 17 students, faculty and staff members in Parkland, Florida, was no different.

The Rhetoric

"This is the 18th school shooting in the first 43 days of 2018," Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., tweeted, citing statistics compiled by a gun control advocacy group that The Washington Post called "flat wrong." ​The Democrat continued, "We cannot accept this as normal. We must address gun violence."

Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., said on the Senate floor, "This happens nowhere else other than the United States of America." He added, "This epidemic of mass slaughter, this scourge of school shooting after school shooting, it only happens here not because of coincidence, not because of bad luck, but as a consequence of our inaction."

Despite the hyperbole coming from Capitol Hill, no lawmaker can cite a single proposal that could have prevented Wednesday’s slaughter.

The usual argument is that guns are too common, too readily available. The United States admittedly leads the world in per capita gun ownership.

In addition, the AR-15 rifle alleged shooter Nikolas Cruz used to inflict his carnage, was readily available to him. He fell through the cracks despite an apparent mental health issues.

A Change in Attitude

Yet 60 years ago, high school gun clubs were as common in rural America as cheer leading squads and nearly every household possessed at least one firearm.

Sixty years ago we didn’t have the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, which buyers now have to pass to purchase a firearm from a licensed dealer. It wasn’t launched until 1998. Before then, if you wanted a firearm you went to the local hardware store, selected and paid for one and walked out of the store with it.

However, the easy availability of weapons 60 years ago — even 30 years ago — didn’t translate to a national gun violence epidemic.

So what changed? We did.

In a society where everyone wins, everybody goes home with a trophy and athletic coaches are cautioned against running up the score out of fear of embarrassing the other team, something destructive invades the psyche. People became ill-equipped to accept failure, handle misfortune, or for that matter to even deal with opposing viewpoints.

Did the wrong political candidate win? Shatter a block of storefront windows, set the trash cans on fire and turn over a few police cruisers.

Did a judge make the wrong ruling? Bust some heads open, loot the local bodega, and set the entire neighborhood ablaze.

Was the wrong speaker invited on campus? Promise death and destruction if he appears, block his entrance when he does, and it he still reaches the lecture hall, shout him down.

Wednesday’s gunman was apparently one of those types. When a girlfriend left him because of his abusive behavior, instead of accepting it and learning from the experience, he reportedly took it out on her new boyfriend.

He was also expelled from school — another failure — and took it out on his classmates Wednesday.

Former Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton once claimed that "It Takes a Village" to properly raise a child in modern society. This is flat-out wrong. It takes a family. Especially a set of parents who have a genuine interest in their children’s future and who are willing to practice tough love whenever it becomes necessary.

It takes a family to teach children that it’s okay to fail and that we all do it. But when it happens, we have to learn from the experience and move on.

A village, city, county, state and most of all, the U.S., is wholly incapable of performing that task.

Short Term Solution

That’s the long-term solution to school shootings, but that would likely take a generation of human reengineering. What can be done in the interim?

Taking a cue from Israel, we could allow any agreeable teacher, administrator or staff member to arm himself with a concealed weapon after taking — and continuing to take —proper training. Israeli-based journalist Greg Tapper, writing for Fox News said, "Americans intent on ensuring a school massacre like the one in Newtown, Connecticut never happens again could learn a lot from Israel, where the long menu of precautions includes armed teachers."

Another solution might be to lock all doors after school is in session so that none other than the main entrance can be opened from the outside — but all can be opened from the inside in case of emergency. Then post a guard at the main entrance.

But whatever action schools, churches and public buildings take, the time to do it is now. Congress can’t do it — only we can.

Michael Dorstewitz is a retired lawyer and has been a frequent contributor to BizPac Review and Liberty Unyielding. He’s also a former U.S. Merchant Marine officer and an enthusiastic Second Amendment supporter, who can often be found honing his skills at the range.

Most states won't let carry a gun if have a Vpo or if a felon, are there any that Doo.

Most states won't let carry a gun if have a Vpo or if a felon, are there any that Doo. Originally Posted by Ripmany

Please refrain from discussing hypothetical when having an honest conversation about firearm possession and/or controls. Mexico has well documented strict firearms controls with respect to their citizens as well as visitors. There are LOTS possessed by both groups along with some of the "real military style" weapons ... and for years the Mexican military was afraid to confront certain groups who were well armed. They still do unless backed up.

People with protective orders and felons get firearms.

Let's get something straight, firearm safety and marksmanship was taught in some public schools. That means safety and the responsible use of firearms, mostly rifles. No one was taught to be a commando or a gang banger. Rural students were known to have a gun rack in the truck in the parking lot. You could order a weapon, including a military weapon, through the mail before JFK. There were street gangs but it was considered to be extreme to bring a firearm to a "rumble" even if they were readily available.

It's not the guns, it's the people and the times. Every gun control law has failed to bring peace and safety to the streets. Only when more people have armed does random crime go down.

Yup people and society