Legal-Illegal Math explained

and another thing in general put a pencil to figuring the price of a barrel of milk,icecream,beer,soda,etc.yo ull be amazed i have all the formulas if any one cares.

sad message to me come on hand. the only reason why its getting worse is because of the way people think. are demands are growing yes. but our industrial technology is amazing. loots of people have no idea what it takes to make something a go. hell our technology is amazing all around. everybodies trying to push the envelope on resurces and other things far to soon. and speaking of technologyim an educated engineer but am horrible at punctuation and typing go figure. thats why i never say to much on here. but i try to get my point across. excuse me. Originally Posted by bdforyou

Ah, no problem with the typos and they're just that, typos. But as to your point, yes, technology just fascinates me and the cool thing is that it is progressing at an exponential rate, so no telling what we'll see in just a few years. Gladman made reference to a clean energy possibility that had to do with some type of kite to retrieve solar power or wind power, so I would like to check that out.

I see that you agreed with rakhir on his wind power post, and I would like to ask, what part exactly do you agree with? Was it the engineering?

and another thing in general put a pencil to figuring the price of a barrel of milk,icecream,beer,soda,etc.yo ull be amazed i have all the formulas if any one cares. Originally Posted by bdforyou

I would, yes!

ah the windmills . after i got irritated and started typing i thought about that. actually two points of thought came to mind that i didnt clarify. one being i agree with the point that the winmills cause problems as far as the gear boxes go. then secondly i read about the windmills killing birds. them my thought came along after that wgich was ok everyone lets start bitching somemore. then i thought f--- it whats the wind speed of ahigh flying goose . make sense. or the angle of the dangle times the mass of the ass.

. . . Al Gore in the stone age complaining about using to many rocks one day we will run out of them. Originally Posted by dbbogey

Man alive, that had me almost falling on the floor!

Big business has been in bed with the government since the Progessive Era...the late 19th century until WW1...and anyone who thinks that's not true is smokin' something weird! (lol)

I agree with what you said bdforyou. People bitch, bitch, bitch, and want, want, want, but won't sacrifice anything! Einstein defined it perfectly..."doing something over and over, and expecting a different result," it's called insanity!

To Rakhir, regarding your original post. Those numbers are way off and show only a unbelievably incorrect view of immigration, social services, and benefits programs. I don't know why people believe these mass e-mails since they're so wrong.

A person in the United States illegally CAN NOT get any welfare, food stamps, medicaid, medicare, or housing. The first thing you have to show in order to get these benefits is proof of citizenship or legal permanent residency. Go look it up. So that cuts quite bit from your examples since this money comes out of pocket from the undocumented worker.

An undocumented worker does indeed pay taxes in sales tax every time they buy food, clothes, miscellaneous supplies, and equipment. In texas, since we don't have a state tax, that's quite a bit for the coffers since an undocumented person spends on sales tax here just as we all do.

I'm appalled and embarrassed by your posting. It is wrong, both factually and morally. It is racist and xenophobic. Why are you blaming undocumented people? Because some blowhard on the radio tells you to? Because the politicians are claiming "illegals" to be the big, bad boogeymen?

Your posting sounds like people here illegally are wringing their hands, stretching their mustaches and laughing maniacally like a villain from a third rate horror movie. They are people just like you. They are working for their families just like you. They care about their kids, their future, and their neighborhood just like you. You make them out to be some cold, calculating, selfish people who are stealing form you and yelling gimme more, more, more. That's not the truth and you know it. Don't get caught up in the mass hysteria against so called "illegals."

To Rakhir, regarding your original post. Those numbers are way off and show only a unbelievably incorrect view of immigration, social services, and benefits programs. I don't know why people believe these mass e-mails since they're so wrong.

A person in the United States illegally CAN NOT get any welfare, food stamps, medicaid, medicare, or housing. The first thing you have to show in order to get these benefits is proof of citizenship or legal permanent residency. Go look it up. So that cuts quite bit from your examples since this money comes out of pocket from the undocumented worker.

An undocumented worker does indeed pay taxes in sales tax every time they buy food, clothes, miscellaneous supplies, and equipment. In texas, since we don't have a state tax, that's quite a bit for the coffers since an undocumented person spends on sales tax here just as we all do.

I'm appalled and embarrassed by your posting. It is wrong, both factually and morally. It is racist and xenophobic. Why are you blaming undocumented people? Because some blowhard on the radio tells you to? Because the politicians are claiming "illegals" to be the big, bad boogeymen?

Your posting sounds like people here illegally are wringing their hands, stretching their mustaches and laughing maniacally like a villain from a third rate horror movie. They are people just like you. They are working for their families just like you. They care about their kids, their future, and their neighborhood just like you. You make them out to be some cold, calculating, selfish people who are stealing form you and yelling gimme more, more, more. That's not the truth and you know it. Don't get caught up in the mass hysteria against so called "illegals." Originally Posted by eddiecruz

Eddie, this was an outstanding post and I'm glad you spoke up because I was beginning to think I was going to be the only one to stand up to this type of trash.

What was particularly troubling to me is that I had an engaging conversation and debate with rakhir some months ago about the oil and gas industry. He, as its obvious now, is a republican and I of course a Liberal so we had many differences.

Despite those differences, we came to agree to disagree but the entire time, he was cordial and respectful and I complimented him often on his patience and willingness to listen and possibly compromise. That posting I think had close to 1,000 views and for a political issue that was great.

I never sensed this overt demagoguery in him and believe me, there were opportunities for him to at least hint at it but he never did. I just was floored by this posting from rakhir considering that this is San Antonio and ECCIE is probably half, if not more, subscribed to by Hispanics and including providers. Any simple Google search will give you reams of info ranging from the IRS to the Census Bureau to economists that prove otherwise on this issue. I knew that the election of Barack Obama would bring up this type of frothing, fomented toilet backwash amongst nativist. The problem too is that the entire Republican party is driven by this hatred but oh well, all we can do is slap it down when we see it.

. . . The problem too is that the entire Republican party is driven by this hatred but oh well, all we can do is slap it down when we see it. Originally Posted by Rodram

To quote your own sig-line, RR: You have a right to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Also, the main problem many (including lots of Hispanic natives plus naturalized citizens of this country from many international origins) have with illegal aliens is that they are ILLEGAL. Get it? 'Illegal' means 'committed a crime.'

Those of us with hearts do believe that illegal aliens have come here in many cases to help their families. That doesn't change the illegal/criminal aspect. Do we cut people slack just because our hearts bleed? Or, do we try to help the people enter the country legally? Which is actually more helpful? The legal way, every time. EVERY time.

BTW, lib-progs have convinced the media to use the misnomer "illegal immigrants," because the word 'immigrant' grabs at all of our hearts and basically connotes lawful entry. Every person on this side of the world has ancestors who immigrated here at one point or another in history, whether over the Bering Strait thousands of years ago, or dragged here in servitude hundreds of years ago, or through legal means in modern times. The fact is that persons in a country illegally are 'aliens'. Pretty simple concept.

The US allows hundreds of thousands of people legal entry every year. Why enter illegally and expect it not to be considered criminal?

Don't get it? Try hopping a border without a passport/visa into any other country and experience it for yourself. You'd be lucky to keep your possessions, maybe even your life.

To quote your own sig-line, RR: You have a right to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Also, the main problem many (including lots of Hispanic natives plus naturalized citizens of this country from many international origins) have with illegal aliens is that they are ILLEGAL. Get it? 'Illegal' means 'committed a crime.'

Those of us with hearts do believe that illegal aliens have come here in many cases to help their families. That doesn't change the illegal/criminal aspect. Do we cut people slack just because our hearts bleed? Or, do we try to help the people enter the country legally? Which is actually more helpful? The legal way, every time. EVERY time.

BTW, lib-progs have convinced the media to use the misnomer "illegal immigrants," because the word 'immigrant' grabs at all of our hearts and basically connotes lawful entry. Every person on this side of the world has ancestors who immigrated here at one point or another in history, whether over the Bering Strait thousands of years ago, or dragged here in servitude hundreds of years ago, or through legal means in modern times. The fact is that persons in a country illegally are 'aliens'. Pretty simple concept.

The US allows hundreds of thousands of people legal entry every year. Why enter illegally and expect it not to be considered criminal?

Don't get it? Try hopping a border without a passport/visa into any other country and experience it for yourself. You'd be lucky to keep your possessions, maybe even your life.
Originally Posted by Gladman

Gladman, I'm satisfied with the conversations I've had with you already and I will not be addressing these issues with you any longer. Have a good night and thanks.- Rodney

Gladman, I'm satisfied with the conversations I've had with you already and I will not be addressing these issues with you any longer. Have a good night and thanks.- Rodney Originally Posted by Rodram

Oh dang dang dang, I think the world is ending.

Oh dang dang dang, I think the world is ending. Originally Posted by Gladman

LOL, I don't know who I'm gonna get mad at any longer Gladman!

JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families
have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes
$25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number,
and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".


Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00
per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has
$31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or
$31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for
his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now
has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and
local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per
year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps
and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose
Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal
still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal
now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities,
gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get
a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after
school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services,
but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.


Do you get it, now? Originally Posted by Rakhir

So make all the Illegals "legal" then they pay taxes. End of story.

That last was proposed by G.W.Bush but went nowhere.

Just a note. Nowhere does the word illegal include the word Hispanic. In California the illegals may be of a different ethnic origin. Also true of Washington. We seem to focus on Hispanics in Texas when Texas agriculture would die without illegals.
The crops need picking.

A few years ago, I brought this up to an employee. The Hispanic lady was a single mom who worked two jobs to support herself and two children and would not take welfare. She insisted on earning her own way. She hated wetbacks with a vingence bordering on insanity. She felt that if someone from Mexico wanted to work here then they should get a green card and work legally.