Trump says Ukraine started the war

You give Trump too much credit. Always the rightie pleaser you are. Trump listens to Russian propaganda and like many on the right and Tulsi, believe that and repeat it. You are close to that in the past year sadly.

Trump and Trumpys repeat the Russian company line over and over. The fact is that Russia invaded. Ukraine has no incentive to do anything except continuing to fight. Russia needs an off-ramp but doesn’t want to lose anything they’ve gained. It’s a stalemate for them that’s far more costly than it is for Ukraine.

Were Ukraine to make any deal with Russia, there’s zero assurance Russia would abide it once they’ve gotten the benefit of the deal - time to recuperate and lifting of sanctions. We’d revisit this in a few years. Ukraine knows that without actual protection from NATO there’s nothing to keep Russia from returning. Trump is a simpleton and actually believes Putin, which no other world leader would do.

Don’t be a Trumpy Tiny. You’re better than that, kinda, or at least slightly. Originally Posted by 1blackman1

So what would you do if you were the DOTUS (Dictator of the United States) Blackman? Send American troops to Ukraine? Or continue like we have been and fight this war to the last Ukrainian?

I stand shoulder to shoulder with Bernie Sanders on this issue. He's not a rightie btw.

This is absolutely not true, the bold text: It’s a stalemate for them that’s far more costly than it is for Ukraine.

Russia's not doing that badly. Its economy is humming along, like ours was when we were spending a similar % of GDP on defense in the 1950's and 1960's. Ukraine is getting decimated.

Make a deal with Russia ? No matter if Trump said that, or someone else.

The reality goes back to President Reagan: "Russia is the focus of evil in the modern word."


Russia is known for its false flag operations. They may have invented it. Putin kills anyone in sight who threatens
his power. NATO is well known as a security and defense organization, not an entity that would attack anyone.


But Russia has to invade Ukraine, because if Ukraine joins NATO, they won't be able to invade any longer.....make sense to anyone ?

Correct me if I am wrong. But isn't NATO a defensive alliance ? Stating that if 1 member is attacked, the other members will come to its assistance ? There is nothing in NATO discussing attacking other countries.

So what would you do if you were the DOTUS (Dictator of the United States) Blackman? Originally Posted by Tiny

I can't speak for Blackman. But I would have figured out a way to get India and China in on the sanctions. The Russian economy would have tanked if that happened. Then again, Puting might have really ratcheted up the idea on using a Nuke if he got backed into a corner. Maybe this is why I am not in government. And why I can't sleep.

Correct me if I am wrong. But isn't NATO a defensive alliance ? Stating that if 1 member is attacked, the other members will come to its assistance ? There is nothing in NATO discussing attacking other countries. Originally Posted by VitaMan

Like Kosovo 1999? Not part of NATO, but had to get involved.

Afghanistan 2001 was a NATO thing.

Iraq 2004, Libya 2011, Syria 2010.

While NATO was originally formed as a defensive alliance, these actions show a pattern of OFFENSIVE Military interventions, regime change and "Humanitarian wars". unquote.

Yea, NATO's only for defense, until it's not.

A detailed explanation of the above would be appreciated. What is the NATO mandate ?



Good discussions would be helpful for all of us to understand what NATO is for.

Make a deal with Russia ? No matter if Trump said that, or someone else.

The reality goes back to President Reagan: "Russia is the focus of evil in the modern word." Originally Posted by VitaMan

Soviet Union. and referring to the Cold War that was over long ago. But some have fallen for the propaganda that Russia is synonymous with Soviet Union USSR back in the day and are just stuck because they believe what their perfect government tells them or they just need a bad guy to hate rage like 1984.

Russia is known for its false flag operations. They may have invented it.

Like? Only one I found was Poland 1939 they blamed on Germany.

NATO is well known as a security and defense organization, not an entity that would attack anyone.

I got a bridge for ya. Just ask Gaddafi. Gaddafi never attacked a NATO country.

But Russia has to invade Ukraine, because if Ukraine joins NATO, they won't be able to invade any longer.....make sense to anyone ?

Not the way you put it. NATO has been a bully to Russia because it has no other purpose.

So explain what the US would do if China put missiles in Northern Mexico. US couldn't handle missiles 90 miles away in Cuba without having a seizure. But anything the US does is okay, cuz defense.

Sorry, this got really long. Tried to add some white space to make it easy to read.

The Ukraine War: A Manufactured Disaster
Yeah, shouldn't get involved in others' silly, biased opinions, but here it goes.

TL;DR: Stop funding Ukraine and the Military-Industrial Complex (MIC). Cut the money flow, and Ukraine really loses. Not that I care—this war was never meant to be won.

Who Started This War? We Did.
Let’s be honest: the U.S. started the Ukraine war. We overthrew a democratically elected government in 2014 (nothing new for us), installed a puppet regime, and then acted shocked when Russia responded.

Crimea voted overwhelmingly to stay with Russia—an election we didn’t like, so we called it “rigged.” But let’s be real: Russia was never going to give up its only warm-water port. That was never on the table.

Then the Ukrainian government outlawed the Russian language, cracked down on the Russian Orthodox Church, and let actual Nazis terrorize ethnic Russians in the Donbas. Russia backed the separatists under the table for years, but NATO kept pushing—until Moscow finally drew the line.

Poking the Bear (Again)
NATO had zero reason to keep expanding toward Russia, but they did it anyway. Not satisfied with bases in Finland, Sweden, and Eastern Europe, they kept pushing Ukraine closer to membership. Russia made it clear: step over this line, and we respond. We stepped over it, broke past agreements, and forced their hand. But sure—let’s act like this is all Russia’s fault.

Zelensky: A Puppet and a Thief
Zelensky isn’t some heroic wartime leader—he’s a puppet dictator, a corrupt pawn installed by the Neocons. If I were Trump or Russia, I wouldn’t want him at the table either. Like Trump said, he had his chance. Now, he should take what’s left of our money, buy a Swiss mansion, and GTFO.

Follow the Money: Who Benefits?
Billions in aid vanish with no accountability.
Weapons sold on the black market.
Illegal biolabs nobody wants to talk about.
NGOs and corrupt politicians getting rich off U.S. and EU taxpayers.
This war wasn’t about saving Ukraine—it was about feeding the MIC, the Deep State, and intelligence agencies that thrive on endless conflict. And people really expected a different result? Either this was done on purpose or it was the dumbest foreign policy blunder in modern history.

Russia Won, Ukraine Lost (Like It Was Designed To)
Ukraine was set up to fail—since 2014, it’s been nothing but a proxy state used to weaken Russia. But here’s the problem:

Russia didn’t collapse.
Putin isn’t going anywhere.
The sanctions backfired.
And we just pushed Russia into China’s arms.
So, remind me—who really won here?

NATO: A Useless Relic
What exactly is NATO’s purpose today?

The Soviet Union doesn’t exist.
Russia’s economy is the size of Brazil’s or South Korea’s.
Russia’s military budget is on par with Germany or the UK.
Yet, we act like Russia is some global threat while our military is in over 100 countries—including Africa. But sure, let’s keep obsessing over Putin.

The Aftermath: The Same Old Playbook
Now that the war is wrapping up, guess who’s moving in?

BlackRock and corporate vultures will exploit Ukraine’s resources.
The best farmland in Europe will be sold off.
Ukraine’s rare earth minerals will be stolen right in front of them.
The country will be left as a third-world banana republic in Europe.
This wasn’t about protecting democracy—it was another textbook example of war for profit.

Thanks, anyway it is clear where your bias lies.

Thanks, anyway it is clear where your bias lies. Originally Posted by VitaMan

That's a good start. Explain my bias the way you see it. Add some context, add an example.

I'll start - Yea, I have a bias against war. I was in the military during the so-called Cold War during the actual USSR and when NATO had a purpose. The same government we said was an ally during WWII was now an enemy. I was protecting West Germany from the evil East Germans and now look. The Stazi could have learned a thing or two from Merkle.

Now, we haven't actually won or even finished a war since WWII. These conflicts that are created by false flags and false narratives ie: WMD, have one purpose and that's to enrich others. So yea, I'm biased against corruption and people enriching themselves at the expense of needless loss of blood and treasure. The needless loss life, limbs and peace of mind.

The best of a generation losing limbs and sanity for what? I was in the military, I know why I joined and served. Thankfully it was between "conflicts", but it's like being stabbed in the heart every time I see a soldier at the VA without a limb or two, for what? Their sacrifice was for the country they dedicated their entire physical and mental being to, which is not only a good thing, but the best a man can be and how are they and their families rewarded for the greatest sacrifice? Yea, I have a bias.

Want to call that a bias? OK, you're correct.

---------------------------------------------------
Got distracted, but here's the finish to the previous post:

Final Thoughts
Russia was never going to lose. Ukraine was never going to win. And the only real losers were the people who actually believed the propaganda.

This was just another Afghanistan-style money pit—a perfect war for corruption, propaganda, and the MIC. Ukraine is in ruins, its people displaced or dead, while the elites who profited sit comfortably in their Swiss mansions.

So yeah—let’s just finish this mess, stop sending money, and move on.

I'd give Ukraine a bunch of nukes and see if Puddin wanted to re-negotiate the Budapest Memorandum...

Trump blaming Ukraine for the conflict ? Saying they should have made a deal 3 years ago with Russia ?


At what cost........giving away part of Ukraine to the Russians ? That sounds like Trump bullying tactics by the Russians.....the #1 section of the Trump playbook.


Trump's big thing is deporting illegal aliens. How about if someone made an offer to take part of the USA in exchange for stopping illegal aliens from crossing the "new" border ?


Trump is becoming more unhinged every day.

Like Kosovo 1999? Not part of NATO, but had to get involved.

Afghanistan 2001 was a NATO thing.

Iraq 2004, Libya 2011, Syria 2010.

While NATO was originally formed as a defensive alliance, these actions show a pattern of OFFENSIVE Military interventions, regime change and "Humanitarian wars". unquote.

Yea, NATO's only for defense, until it's not. Originally Posted by pertpvyztrzv

Re Afghanistan


https://www.nato.int/docu/review/art...ive/index.html

NATO assumed command of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in August 2003 in the wake of the exceptional circumstances that had been created by the terrorist attacks on the United States of 11 September, 2001. The planning for these attacks had originated on the territory of Afghanistan. In response, Allies took the unanimous position that the attacks represented an aggression against them all and, accordingly, invoked Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty for the first time in NATO’s history.

Re Iraq
NATO Mission Iraq is a non-combat advisory and capacity-building mission that assists Iraq in building more sustainable, transparent, inclusive and effective security institutions and forces, so that they themselves are able to stabilise their country, fight terrorism, and prevent the return of ISIS/Daesh.

A primer on NATO
https://www.nato.int/nato-welcome/

Trump and MAGA think Ukraine should have surrendered to Russia rather than fight for their continued independence.

What idiots Trump and MAGA folks are. Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Ukraine cannot defend its self against Russia without Billions and Billions of US aid.

Trump’s offer to Ukraine a deal where the US would get strategic minerals that Ukraine has in abundance has been turned down.

In the mean time, the killing continues. Killings in a war that is basically a stalemate.

I guess it is ok when other Country’s young men are getting slaughtered.