Who has what rights?

You may not recognize it, but you just described due process after stating there's no due process. Originally Posted by HDGristle

Actually nope.
It's all in how the immigrants atty write it up. Once the judge gets the real facts, it's over in 10 seconds.
If you want to call that due process, well no it's not. The liars get caught and out they go.

Seriously, I have seen temp work visa folks get upset with an atty that writes up crap, their relative spends a month or more in holding, and once it actually gets to the judge, 10 seconds later judge lets ICE take the person.
Mom, dad, sis, etc.

What I don't understand is attorneys writing up bullshit that may stall someone getting tossed, but in the end, ICE always has a valid reason to toss someone. Clearly Attys will just take money from anyone.

Actually nope.
It's all in how the immigrants atty write it up. Once the judge gets the real facts, it's over in 10 seconds.
If you want to call that due process, well no it's not. The liars get caught and out they go.

Seriously, I have seen temp work visa folks get upset with an atty that writes up crap, their relative spends a month or more in holding, and once it actually gets to the judge, 10 seconds later judge lets ICE take the person.
Mom, dad, sis, etc. Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

You're not well-versed here and it shows. The "amount" of due process will differ by circumstances.

It's all highly situational. And in some cases, that crap is all that will be available if the fam has the ability to tell rather than show. This assumes they are even using counsel, which is also highly situational.

The reason Homan is upset with AOC is because she's sharing more information about their legal rights and how to use them.

But for many, delay is all that will happen because their case IS crap even if they're telling the truth. Not even because of the attorney, but often due to a lack of direct, demonstrable and convincing evidence and a cohesive story. Immigration court is pretty lax by comparison. Hearsay is potentially permissible. But if you readily admit that you crossed illegally? Probly saying adios.

Typically if you get to the immigration judge you've already dealt with another entity like USCIS, which is another avenue for due process to apply.

A deportation order itself requires elements of due process to have been available. Same goes for a credible fear assessment. Or appealing a removal or deportation order. Filing an MTR.

Expedited removal? That's where the meatiest questions about adequate due process come into play.

...It's all highly situational....
...But for many, delay is all that will happen because their case IS crap... Originally Posted by HDGristle

So you actually agree?

It is my non-professional (not a lawyer) and relatively uninformed opinion (I get my news from YouTube) that non-citizens do have, regardless of their legal status, civil rights. By that I mean they are protected from wanton murder and have access to emergency care, and to public accommodations . . .things like that.

However, it is my belief that non-citizens may be automatically deputed for a variety of reasons, illegal entry is of course the big one today and applies to some 20 million at this point. Overstaying a visa of any kind is another automatic qualifier for a ticket home. A resident alean with legal status (Visa, Green Card etc) who commits a major crime should face deportation as part of their sentencing upon conviction. For an illegal alien, there should be no question on this.

Involvement in a hate crime or support for an avowed enemy of the country is now being touted as "free speech". Not long ago but memory dimmed by the pandemic hysteria was the limitations on free speech by the progressive left. The expression of conservative views were forbidden and they shouted down invited guests who attempted to speak at major universities.

The progressive left also forbad the expression of thoughts that contradicted the official pronouncements on pandemic related issues. To mak or not to mask was one. Standing g six feet apart was another. When folks suggested that we, as a society, should look at therapeutic strategies and medicines, we were again shut down or shut off. Professionals who questioned the efficacy and safety of the mandated Covid shots often were fired or were de-credentialed in their field.

So do not tell me that the principle of free Speech" is held as sacred by the progressive left. Non-citizen supporters of those who wish us ill or would see the Nation harm, such as Hamas, Hezbollah or any other terrorist hate group should be removed from our society . . .with a ticket home to the paradise of their birthplace, or a prison outside the USA . . .I am OK with either.

If a deported non-citizen feels that their expulsion was in error, I would invite them to take it up with the US Embassy or Consulate in their homeland.

... Involvement in a hate crime or support for an avowed enemy of the country is now being touted as "free speech"... Originally Posted by ICU 812

This is what the non-citizen about to be tossed folks are claiming. However, of course there's a black and white difference between this and basic public speaking.
So thanks to the lawyers for claiming there's confusion on this issue. /s (sarcasm font marker)

Don't get me wrong about the points I'm trying to make.
My issue is with what I call line jumpers (sneak across, visa violations, incorrect visas for what they really want to do, etc.). Outfits I used to work for sponsored work visas. We would actually sit them down and explain what would happen if .... The ones that started saying but why, but why, we would not sponsor. Those were rare. We decided early on that we would not spend the time to train folks in American customs, language, etc. if we thought we would lose them cause they were bad decision makers.

Working in the US (and working towards a green card) is a privilege and a lot of folks get this. I recall one place where close to half of the staff was an extended family group (out to 3rd cousins) that spoke mandarin. We always had one of the older gals sit in on our decisions. For those not familiar with family clan hierarchy, the family matron always calls the family direction. We would let her know if we might need another staff the following year (yes year) and her family would nominate someone to start paperwork through whichever embassy was elsewhere.

My point in mentioning this?
There is a process/procedure that works quite well. When that includes a family support group, it works exceptionally well. In the meantime, my outfit got decent staff that was ok with minimum wage for a few years (key issue). One of our outfits proudest moments was when one of the kids got a green card, went to med school, and became a consulting surgeon (16 years after landing in US. I was gone by then, but I was contacted by several folks thanking me that long afterward).

The local family matron used to tease me about being a professor in American culture for her family. This gal actually sent one of the family back to their hometown on vacation, to never return, and, she apologized to me about her original sponsorship. Apparently, an even older family member back where-ever told her to apologize.

So you actually agree? Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Only with a portion of your point because you're overly generalizing again

I have lived and worked in a Moslem country. For anyone Islam there the way what these anti-Jewish protesters are doing here in the USA . . .they would just shoot them.

We just want to send them home.

Lying to get into the US is a disqualifier again.

Are you supporting terrorist in some other country?

What? Do I support terrorists? No...that's the ticket! No, I don't support terrorists anymore than the next Palestinian.

Which terrorist?

(Pro tip: grammar counts!)

You are laughable, my long lost uncle!