A GREEK LESSON FOR THE USA...

If you think it is stupid, that is good enough for me!

You couldn't be more out of touch.. Originally Posted by gnadfly

Try a little research before you say something really stupid.

1,774,000 Federal government civilian employees, excluding Post Office
615,000 Post Office
1,172,913 Military enlisted
230,577 Military Officers
2,424,000 State government (excluding education and hospitals)
5,594,000 Local government (excluding education and hospitals)
That's a total of 11,810,490 government jobs.

In 2007, the U.S. population (according to the Census Bureau) was 301,621,157, so about 4% of Americans are employed by the government.

In Greece 1 in every 3 workers, 33.33% of the working population are employed by the government. THIS is their biggest problem. America cannot compare to this and it is the root cause of the problem Greece has found itself it.

So like smallLouie, where are you getting your numbers? I forgot, you are intellectually disingenuous.

Doesn't matter, you've only proven my point. I didn't say that the workforce % was the same, just that there was a significant portion of the population wanting govt jobs. Strangely when I typed this I was thinking of teachers, which you don't seem to include in your statistics. You also quote an overall percentage of US population v the work percentage of Greece. I also find it hard to believe that there is one officer for every 6 enlisted "men."

OK, I found your source..its a wiki.answers.com page...did you go back to the discussion page?

One guy says:
If ALL government workers are taken into account which would include teachers and school adminitrators, police, firemen, librarians, state hospital workers, prison employees, all city workers, all county workers including school district employees, then it could be credibly stated that they consist of 13.8 to 15% of the working population.

More research from Business Insider (I dunno what kind of outfit they run)

Greece's bloated public sector employs the same share of the workforce -- 14.1% -- as America's. Some US states are much worse, giving public jobs to nearly 25% of workers.

Comparing us to Greece is idiotic. Comparing Greece to say Cali is more like it. In both cases they will be bailed out.

So like smallLouie, where are you getting your numbers? I forgot, you are intellectually disingenuous.

Doesn't matter, you've only proven my point. I didn't say that the workforce % was the same, just that there was a significant portion of the population wanting govt jobs. Strangely when I typed this I was thinking of teachers, which you don't seem to include in your statistics. You also quote an overall percentage of US population v the work percentage of Greece. I also find it hard to believe that there is one officer for every 6 enlisted "men."

OK, I found your source..its a wiki.answers.com page...did you go back to the discussion page?

One guy says:
If ALL government workers are taken into account which would include teachers and school adminitrators, police, firemen, librarians, state hospital workers, prison employees, all city workers, all county workers including school district employees, then it could be credibly stated that they consist of 13.8 to 15% of the working population.

You couldn't be more out of touch smallLouie...or a bigger liar.

Originally Posted by gnadfly

If he doesn't quote a source it's safe to assume it's..........



Big Louie relies on them almost exclusively, because they're almost reliable.

So like smallLouie, where are you getting your numbers? I forgot, you are intellectually disingenuous.

You couldn't be more out of touch smallLouie...or a bigger liar.
[/COLOR][/LEFT] Originally Posted by gnadfly

Like most of the conservative posters in this section you make it personal with insults which says a lot about your character.

Here is some published works.

Here is why Athens is taking the axe to state jobs: Greece’s public sector employs around 700,000 or 800,000 people. Exact estimates are hard to find. What is certain is the drain this has placed on the small country’s finances, starting in the 1980s.

Both the left and right in politics used the system, rewarding supporters with jobs. With every political power shift, the public sector grew, as more people were hired.

Haralambos Koutalakis, a lecturer on public administration at Athens University, said: “Over the years the two big parties have created a large public sector mainly with clientelistic processes of employing people and that is going to be very difficult to change because it requires a whole reorganisation of the way that services are run and of the way that things are done in the public sector.”

About 20 percent of the working population is some sort of civil servant, in a job that has been guaranteed for life under the constitution. Today’s plan under the Socialist government is to reduce salaries and staff numbers by 20 percent by 2015. It is looking at putting 30,000 workers into what it is calling a “labour reserve”, paying them 60 percent of their salaries for 12 months, while they are supposed to find other work, and then giving them the sack.

The layoffs would be a break with the constitution. This was established a hundred years ago, to end the practice of incoming governments firing employees under the previous one.

The public sector is bloated and inefficient but getting a job in it has been a national prize for decades. While the Greek average monthly wage is around 700 euros, a civil servant starts at 800, and bonuses can push that to 1,300 a month.

Koutalakis said: “There is a huge amount of voters of both big parties who are working for the public sector and this of course is going to cost them politically. Today the Greeks don’t see any perspective – any way out of this crisis and that is very important, because it explains a lot. It explains the consensus, it explains the moral of getting through this difficult time. I think that’s pretty much hard work for any government but I think they have to work on it.”


Over on www.realclearpolitics.com

In the article they note"

One in three Greeks works for the government. Government employees enjoy higher wages, more munificent benefits, and earlier retirements than private sector employees. Civil servants can retire after 35 years of service at 80 percent of their highest salary and enjoy lavish health plans, vacations, and other perks. Because they are so numerous, and because Greece is highly centralized, public sector unions hardly have to negotiate. They simply vote in their preferred bosses. Some civil servants receive bonuses for using computers, others for arriving at work on time. Forestry workers get a bonus for outdoor work. All civil servants receive 14 yearly checks for 12 months' work. And it's impossible to fire them -- even for the grossest incompetence.

"Here are some published works"...why don't you quote the source? Because you are intellectually dishonest. Yes, its that simple. You don't quote the source nor give credit to the original author. Yeah, I know you did on the RCP source.

You have a reading comprehension problem. I know Greece has a lot of problems with public sector jobs both now and with ongoing pensions. The US problem is considerably similar. Re-read my orignal post BigStumpy.

You may not have noticed,but we have been getting a Greek lesson from politicians for some time. Originally Posted by ekim008

bohica time!

Try a little research before you say something really stupid.

1,774,000 Federal government civilian employees, excluding Post Office
615,000 Post Office
1,172,913 Military enlisted
230,577 Military Officers
2,424,000 State government (excluding education and hospitals)
5,594,000 Local government (excluding education and hospitals)
That's a total of 11,810,490 government jobs.

In 2007, the U.S. population (according to the Census Bureau) was 301,621,157, so about 4% of Americans are employed by the government.

In Greece 1 in every 3 workers, 33.33% of the working population are employed by the government. THIS is their biggest problem. America cannot compare to this and it is the root cause of the problem Greece has found itself it. Originally Posted by BigLouie

why are public teachers & hospitals not included? they're govt. employees.

One thing Greece has proven that we should be paying attention to is that excessive government spending will NOT keep your economy healthy. All of those that say the federal government should do more to stimulate the economy have a good example that shows the results of that option.